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07/13/2002 10:04:26 AM · #1 |
Well, this is an idea that can really only be achieved through the agreement of individuals, however I thought I would throw it out and see what happens.
It is mentioned that prizes are not given as they cost money and all that. I was thinking that we might kinda push as an 'unofficial policy' that the Top 3 winners each week exchange prints with each other. After all what a better reward for people who love photography than having a great photograph to hang on their walls.
This would of course, like I mentioned above have to happen at the agreement of indivuals, as it costs a small fee to send photographs but perhaps others would be attracted to the idea as I am.
Well, run with it... comment away. |
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07/13/2002 02:09:13 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by Agamemnon:
Well, this is an idea that can really only be achieved through the agreement of individuals, however I thought I would throw it out and see what happens.
It is mentioned that prizes are not given as they cost money and all that. I was thinking that we might kinda push as an ''unofficial policy'' that the Top 3 winners each week exchange prints with each other. After all what a better reward for people who love photography than having a great photograph to hang on their walls.
This would of course, like I mentioned above have to happen at the agreement of indivuals, as it costs a small fee to send photographs but perhaps others would be attracted to the idea as I am.
Well, run with it... comment away.
Sending out 3 sets of 3 8x10 prints would probably end up costing about $40, or about $0.20 per voter. It would take an approximately $1/month fee to cover this.
An alternative would be to create a print account for DPC to which all members have access, and ask the winners to post a hi-res version there -- sort-of a "Winners Gallery" (see example here). Anyone could then order their own set of prints...
If we do it via DAprints, both glossy and matte prints are available, and prices could be rounded up (minimally) to provide a small source of funding for DPC. This would get the winners more publicity, too, although I guess it involves donating the royalties from sales of that photo (at least from those sales) to DPC. If done through a "regular" photo site (like Ofoto or Shutterfly), photos would be available only to registered/invited members, not the web-browsing public.
* This message has been edited by the author on 7/13/2002 2:20:32 PM. |
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07/13/2002 02:18:13 PM · #3 |
Wow, printing and sending out three prints would only cost me about $20-25 dollars. Anyway I was thinking more in the line of not something that is divided among everyone. I think that would be a very bad idea and it is why I mentioned it would be between individuals. Exchanging a Hi-Res version I suppose would take out the annoyance of shipping, but then you would be short any signiture if you are into that sort of thing.
Outside question - is DA prints in anyway connected with this site? |
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07/13/2002 02:29:00 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Agamemnon:
Wow, printing and sending out three prints would only cost me about $20-25 dollars. Anyway I was thinking more in the line of not something that is divided among everyone. I think that would be a very bad idea and it is why I mentioned it would be between individuals. Exchanging a Hi-Res version I suppose would take out the annoyance of shipping, but then you would be short any signiture if you are into that sort of thing.
Outside question - is DA prints in anyway connected with this site?
I was definitely ROUNDING UP costs. $20 is certainly possible...and I''m talking about a outside site making and shipping photographic prints, not inkjets.
Go to DA prints through deviantART.com (see link in revised post above) -- otherwise you will end up registering twice...There is no conection (that I know of) organizatonally, but I know of two other DPC members who have recently started posting prints for sale there, and I believe one DA staff member has joined DPC. But, the sites have very different orientations and styles!
* This message has been edited by the author on 7/13/2002 2:51:36 PM. |
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07/13/2002 02:40:41 PM · #5 |
We've been considering for a very long time offering selling / buying prints on the site. If anyone has any opinions on this, go ahead and voice them. It'd be nice to know if it'll be worth our investment of time and or money.
Drew |
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07/13/2002 03:06:29 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by drewmedia:
We've been considering for a very long time offering selling / buying prints on the site. If anyone has any opinions on this, go ahead and voice them. It'd be nice to know if it'll be worth our investment of time and or money.
Drew
Well, as above, I think if you use the services of an outside vendor, it should take almost no time or investment beyond setting up the original account, and establishing a protocol for who can upload which images. I guess you should write a user agreement granting DPC a non-exclusive license, and saying any profits from sales occurring within that account devolve to DPC. People are still able to sell prints themselves within their own account.
Having a gallery would likely increase everyone's exposure. There could be links to folks' personal galleries too. If anyone's concerned about the DPC account taking away sales from their personal accunt, the DPC gallery could be limited to the smaller print sizes.
Perhaps the biggest problem is that some folks won't have (or would have to re-edit for) enough resolution for the larger print sizes. You'd also have to decide if you want everyone to upload photos themselves, or send them to you first. |
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07/13/2002 03:23:10 PM · #7 |
I think that buying and selling prints on the site would be a great idea but I am curious which direction you are thinking of taking in doing so. I assume you are looking to handle things as the central location from which prints come and go (likely through an outside vendor).
I am not sure what you want to do with the profits, and how you want to handle permission from the artists. I think that is you wanted to set up a 'winners' gallery that sell prints you could put something in the contract when you sign up. Or make it purely volunteer, which may be better. Split the profit between the artist and DPC by some sort of percentage? Profit to DPC since they would handle moving things around?
Anyway, it is an interesting idea, but I can't say more until I get an idea of exactly how you want to handle it. |
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07/13/2002 03:36:54 PM · #8 |
Users would be able to upload their high resolution images, and based on that size, be able to offer certain print sizes. Print price would be set by the user (above or equal to a set cost per size).
The profits would be split between dpchallenge and the artist. I'm not sure of percentage, but we'll certainly be more than reasonable. We'd obviously do all we could to give the prints the exposure they need to sell.
We've been looking around for possible partners. Shutterfly seems to have the whole system set up for business partners, but they only offer up to 8x10. If you've had any experiences (good or bad) with online print merchants, let us know, so we can look into the right services!
We've got a few features ahead of this one in the development (consideration) line ... but I'd definitely like to hear more opinions if anyone's got em.
Drew |
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07/13/2002 04:06:30 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by drewmedia:
Users would be able to upload their high resolution images, and based on that size, be able to offer certain print sizes. Print price would be set by the user (above or equal to a set cost per size).
The profits would be split between dpchallenge and the artist. I''m not sure of percentage, but we''ll certainly be more than reasonable. We''d obviously do all we could to give the prints the exposure they need to sell.
We''ve been looking around for possible partners. Shutterfly seems to have the whole system set up for business partners, but they only offer up to 8x10. If you''ve had any experiences (good or bad) with online print merchants, let us know, so we can look into the right services!
We''ve got a few features ahead of this one in the development (consideration) line ... but I''d definitely like to hear more opinions if anyone''s got em.
Drew
Ofoto offers glossy prints up to 20x30 on Kodak paper (Kodak now owns them). But the system at DAprints seems more suitable for a public gallery -- sites like Ofoto, Shutterfly, etc. seem to be more set up for private, extended family-type use. Another member-only option is MyFamily.com -- for enoug space for a lot of hi-res images it would cost about $50/year, but includes all kings of automated services (notifications of new uploads, chat rooms, FTP-equivalent).
If the idea is to sell prints publicly (with either DCP keeping all the profit or splitting it) it seems DAprints is more appropriate. But, I''ve only been signed up with them for few days, am still figuring out how to navigate the site, and have not yet actually seen a print, so I can''t actually vouch fo the qualiy or service. Ask jmsetzler if he''s ordered any of his own yet. One of their admins is signed up as a DPC member -- maybe you should have a private discusion. Also, DAprints is the only place I''ve seen offering matte prints.
Seems like spliting the profit is an accounting nightmare for you. I''d suggest:
Offer prints up to 5x7 or 8x10 through the DCP gallery (where the perhaps $1 profit would go to DPC), and have links to the artist''s personal account where large format prints can be ordered (profit to artist).
Not all artists will necessarily want prints sold, or to have an account, either, or may choose to let DPC handle all sales and keep the profit as a way of keeping the site free.
Would prints be available of just winners, top 10/20/etc., or all images? Are you envisioning the images being exactly like the entries, or can they now be bordered, captions, perhaps re-cropped, etc.? (see example)
PS: I''ve done most of my ordering through and had good experience with Ofoto, plus they are located within 10 minutes of where I work, so I could probably go bug them in person if need be. But I still don''t think it''s the most appopriate way to go, unless you want a member-only gallery. Feel free to send email if you''d rather get details outside the forums.
Paul
* This message has been edited by the author on 7/13/2002 4:09:47 PM. |
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07/13/2002 04:07:35 PM · #10 |
This is a really good and interesting idea. Not only to sell prints, but what about the legality of selling to stock agencies?
How would that work out?
There is a site I found that boasts creating artwork out of your high res. prints/px/files.... I'll try to find it.
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07/13/2002 04:27:55 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Ofoto offers glossy prints up to 20x30 on Kodak paper (Kodak now owns them). But the system at DAprints seems more suitable for a public gallery -- sites like Ofoto, Shutterfly, etc. seem to be more set up for private, extended family-type use.
We definitely wouldn't use their services as you see them on their sites... we'd partner with them to integrate it into our site as much as possible, but just have them actually print/mail them. Shutterfly specifically offers business opportunities, though I didn't pursue it after seeing the 8x10 limitation.
Seems like spliting the profit is an accounting nightmare for you.
This would have to be worked out with the partner.
Would prints be available of just winners, top 10/20/etc., or all images? Are you envisioning the images being exactly like the entries, or can they now be bordered, captions, perhaps re-cropped, etc.?
Prints would be available from anyone who wants to offer them. That goes both ways: we won't require anyone to offer prints, and we'll allow anyone to offer prints, regardless of 'place' in both situations. I imagine we'd allow captions / borders / recropping, but we'd definitely need to show the user a small version of the actual print before they order.
Also, I'm pretty sure Ofoto is matte-only above 8x10. I have heard (and can't imagine how they wouldn't have) that DAPrints has partnered with someone to handle the printing. We'd just be looking to do the same.
Drew
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07/13/2002 04:54:14 PM · #12 |
My thoughts:
I am definitely interested in this!
Splitting the profits sounds reasonable. It might be nice to be able to order personal prints of your own work at cost or a reduced price.
It would be nice if the printer can handle digital photo aspect ratios, instead of forcing cropping or padding.
I like the idea of it being completely voluntary as to whether or not to sell a print.
I would love the ability to sell things that I can't enter in challenges and the ability to link to my own site.
Selling stock art might interest me as well.
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07/13/2002 05:05:55 PM · #13 |
Hey Drew,
I like the Idea of displaying a gallery of photos for sale. The gallery would need to list the size of the file and would need a release form signed by anyone legibly in the photo. I have already offered to purchase several of the photos shown here on DPChallenge, and I would have no problem giving a percentage to DPChallenge as a brokerage fee. But I have no interest in prints. ΓΆ€“ If I purchase a photo, I would like full ownership rights to reproduce it, as I desire. And I would not want other copies being made all over town. However, If I wanted to purchase only 1 picture to hang in my home ΓΆ€“ I would expect to pay considerably less for it.
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07/13/2002 05:17:51 PM · #14 |
Chances are VERY unlikely that we'll ever facilitate a service to buy exclusive rights to a photo. That's something you'll have to contact a photographer about if you're interested.
The service we're interested in offering is simply a print-sale service.
Drew |
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07/13/2002 05:20:45 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by drewmedia:
Also, I''m pretty sure Ofoto is matte-only above 8x10. I have heard (and can''t imagine how they wouldn''t have) that DAPrints has partnered with someone to handle the printing. We''d just be looking to do the same.
Drew
That would be news to me -- I have only glossy prints from them, and have never seen a matte print option on their site. DAprints also offers more sizes/apect ratios than the others (e.g. 8x12, 11x14). I saw somewhere who they actually have doing their prints -- I will try and track that down and send you a message; maybe you can partner directly with them.
* This message has been edited by the author on 7/13/2002 5:37:54 PM. |
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07/13/2002 05:22:30 PM · #16 |
I wish someone wanted to buy exclusive rights to some of my stuff :))
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07/13/2002 05:30:14 PM · #17 |
I am very interested in this as well. I have been using dotphoto.com for a long time and it has worked very well for me. One of the reason's that I really like it is because you can upload a very hi res image which is stored away for making prints from and the photo that is displayed is a lower res version which still looks very good on a monitor. This works well because dial-up users can still view them reosonable quickly while still having the option of order a high quality print up to 12 x 18 inches. My suggestion is for dpchallenge to open up an account which is free and each week upload maybe the top twent five photos in a new album titled with that week's theme. No profit needs to be made. when a particular week's album of winners is created everyone is either sent an invitation or they are able to link to the album via dpchallenge. Users then select the ones they want to print and order them for only what dotphoto charges. I know there could be problems dealing with the hi res images and getting them all uploaded to the site but I think it could be worked out. The top 25 winners could be sent a request by e-mail to send the hi res versions to dpchallenge, it would be optional, and after a reasonable amount of time has gone by then dpchallenge uploads all of the images that they received to the photo sharing site all at once. Hey, I'm thinking as I am typing, as usual. However it is setup, I like the idea.
Tim J
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07/13/2002 05:36:34 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I wish someone wanted to buy exclusive rights to some of my stuff :))
You can post the photo and contract on eBay (I presume -- they seem to take almost anything else). I'll register and start the biddng at $1 if you want (not what it's worth -- just what my budget for purchasing art rights is right now!). I think there's also a couple of stock companies which will accept submissions.
I think the more places you put your art, especially if you diligently fill out the keyword and descriptive fields, the more chance you have of some art director-type coming across something of yours they want. |
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07/13/2002 06:57:04 PM · #19 |
Maybe I am being ignorant again, but why would one want to sell exclusive rights to one''s own photos? Reproduction rights are always the property of the photogrpher, as it is the source of income.
* This message has been edited by the author on 7/13/2002 7:02:20 PM.
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07/13/2002 07:02:00 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Zeissman:
Maybe I am being ignorant again, but why would you want to sell exclusive rights to one of your photos? Wouldn't you lose control of it then?
If i collected an exclusive rights fee, i would not worry about losing rights :) Thats big bucks usually...
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07/13/2002 07:07:07 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Zeissman:
Maybe I am being ignorant again, but why would one want to sell exclusive rights to one''s own photos? Reproduction rights are always the property of the photogrpher, as it is the source of income.
You would. But sometimes that's the deal offered. Not unlike selling your oil painting or sculpture. And if you shoot any photos under a work-for-hire arrangement you'll never own any rights in the first place.
I'm not inclined to do anything like that myself, but people should be able to evaluate all available choices for themselves. |
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07/14/2002 01:32:46 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I wish someone wanted to buy exclusive rights to some of my stuff :))
You've got some great shots John, I'm just waiting for the right ones. |
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