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06/25/2002 09:53:52 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by KDJohnson:
Originally posted by lisae:
[i]On the other hand, when educated, young white males then use those terms, they do so to shock older conservative people, not to be racist or homophobic, especially on a site like this. You''re falling for that. You are the only people who are shocked by these words now... it''s a bit funny really.
I don''t see anything educated about it. I think the real thing lacking in this case is respect. Hopefully someday they will have some for others...but from what I''ve seen here..it''s not going to happen. This is an excellent site, as I''ve said before. But this type of behavior taints it. People can choose to not read forums...but they can''t choose to not read their comments. It''s offensive...and if this website is only going to cater to the young and this is how the young behave...then I guess I''m too old to be here.
I think it''s disappointing because this site is a site worthy of receiving international recognition. More than that....it''s well done. This taints how your customers see the people who operate this site as well, and how well they will be able to rely on control from them in a business situation. You do have business outside of this website...am I correct? In the business world and in all worlds...(if you want to get ahead) there is a way to behave with your ''friends'' and a way to behave in your business dealings. I think some should learn the difference between the two[/i]
I added to my previous post. |
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06/25/2002 09:54:09 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by drewmedia:
BUT, I did want to chime in on clubjuggle's comment -- nobody will ever be suspended, banned, or even sent to their rooms for constructive site criticism. Speak up :)
Check your forum stats. Do you really want to encourage me to speak up more?
Seriously, though, my comment was not intended to express concern about any kind of official action. What I was more concerned about was the public perception that I might be looking to start some kind of witch hunt, which is certainly not the case. It just happens that two issues that I had very strong feelings about happened on the heels of one another.
You're building something totally new and unique on this site. On top of that, you (meaning you personally, langdon and the moderators) have made this site one of the most responsive to user suggestions of any I've ever used. If I'm vocal, it's because I know that my opinions will be listened and considered.
Thanks,
Terry
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06/25/2002 09:55:20 PM · #28 |
Ok I just checked out all of the comments from iban and to me they are just bad comments not intended to help with my pictures but just get a response. I have pretty much ignored them form the beginning when his first comment was "ugly laptop" posted to my transistions picture and "this is great if it isn''t photshoped" on my upsidedown picture. I may not really like or even want to pay attention to his comments, but on the same line at least he is commenting. As far as the racial slur goes I think it was inappropriate but so are alot of things that we all see every day. We have to deal with the good and the bad from everyone, I say JUST LET IT GO the more we make of it the more it makes him happy.
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/25/2002 10:13:17 PM. |
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06/25/2002 09:56:11 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by sjgleah:
I agree with John that I'd rather spend my time worrying about other things. However, I disagree with John and do think it is defeatist to let it go unpunished. The offender ought to be suspended, imho. If he is a repeat offender the suspension can be longer. If it still continues, the suspension can be permanent.
sjgleah
I think that everyone who has a problem with what has happened should send requests to the site admins.
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06/25/2002 09:57:29 PM · #30 |
It is derogatory, hurtful, and inexcusable. I can't change the world, but I don't expect it to be ignored or allowed in any way in any public forum or place. I take personal offense to it as a decent human being, as a white woman married to a Jamaican man, and mother to multicultural children. Let's clean it up and keep this site clean. Thank you.
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06/25/2002 10:02:45 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
It is derogatory, hurtful, and inexcusable. I can't change the world, but I don't expect it to be ignored or allowed in any way in any public forum or place. I take personal offense to it as a decent human being, as a white woman married to a Jamaican man, and mother to multicultural children. Let's clean it up and keep this site clean. Thank you.
I couldn't have said it better myself Karen.
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06/25/2002 10:06:12 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by KDJohnson:
I don''t see anything educated about it. I think the real thing lacking in this case is respect. Hopefully someday they will have some for others...but from what I''ve seen here..it''s not going to happen.
I didn't say it was educated, I just meant that the guys who do this are generally college students or high school students, who are very bright and geeky, who have no lives off the internet other than school, Dungeons and Dragons, and Dance Dance Revolution. The guys on this site actually take photos which is a bit weird, but I don't know how different that makes them.
I think it''s disappointing because this site is a site worthy of receiving international recognition. More than that....it''s well done. This taints how your customers see the people who operate this site as well, and how well they will be able to rely on control from them in a business situation. You do have business outside of this website...am I correct? In the business world and in all worlds...(if you want to get ahead) there is a way to behave with your ''friends'' and a way to behave in your business dealings. I think some should learn the difference between the two
That's fine for the real world, but on the internet there are no walls dividing up one kind of culture from another kind. You have to share your space with people you don't like unless you want to construct barriers through strict moderation or subscription mechanisms. That doesn't exist here, and if that changes to remove some undesirable elements of the site it will remove some very desirable ones as well - ie. the open, participatory nature of it.
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06/25/2002 10:09:39 PM · #33 |
[
b]Originally posted by shortredneck:[/b]
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
[i]It is derogatory, hurtful, and inexcusable. I can't change the world, but I don't expect it to be ignored or allowed in any way in any public forum or place. I take personal offense to it as a decent human being, as a white woman married to a Jamaican man, and mother to multicultural children. Let's clean it up and keep this site clean. Thank you.
I couldn't have said it better myself Karen.
Ditto from ME. It is totally inexcusable. Kee
[/i]
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06/25/2002 10:15:45 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I think that everyone who has a problem with what has happened should send requests to the site admins.
John,
Excellent idea, and done. Anyone else wishing to do so can click here.
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06/25/2002 10:31:36 PM · #35 |
I don't really care if he is happy about our discussion of his language or not. How he feels is not relevant to me but what he says is and I for one do not think we should tolerate language like that on a public site. I can tolerate all kinds of hateful things but I just don't think we should tolerate racial remarks and especially when it is evident that it is continuous.
Tim
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06/25/2002 10:47:19 PM · #36 |
There''s an interesting thing to note here, you know. In my country we don''t have a bill of rights, and freedom of speech is only implied in our constitution. Because of that, racial villification is actually illegal in some states. Yes, if you incite racial hatred in public here, you can be arrested.
It might seem ironic then that citizens of the land of free speech are so upset over this and I''m not. Perhaps it''s because I feel protected by the law, and slightly offensive language doesn''t effect me, because if iban came over here and really spouted off it would actually not endanger anyone''s life, just rob him of his freedom. Since you have no protection, the slightest use of a racial slur terrifies you (plural). Is this the case?
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/25/2002 10:48:57 PM. |
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06/25/2002 10:55:46 PM · #37 |
The only fear of freedom I have is if I ran into a guy like this in person, punched him square in his face and was arrested :-)
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06/25/2002 10:58:43 PM · #38 |
a few quotes I find appropriate:
People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
--Soren Kierkegaard
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either.
--Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
The love of liberty is the love of others; the love of power is the love of ourselves.
--William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
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06/25/2002 11:00:48 PM · #39 |
One thing I don't think was even mentioned here yet, was that the 'dead guy' in the picture is white!
A word by itself has no meaning unless you attach one to it. In case you've been living in a cave for the past 20 years, this is a word (even the more offensive version) that pervades popular culture these days. Have you watched MTV, or seen a Tarantino film? Get over it!
I thought this site was all about photography, not about what is wrong with the world.
The nit-picking, ban 'em, DQ 'em stuff is really getting tiresome... and will only end up in driving people away from the site.
I think discussions like this should be banned in the forums and handled by email to the DPC staff.
Let's get back on topic, please, and debate how my TSaylors' entry this week sucks! |
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06/25/2002 11:06:00 PM · #40 |
Aaarrgggghhhhh! (Whew, glad I got that off my chest!)
My two cents: yes, the term "nigga" is used among young males (white AND black), especially those that follow the "gansta" music and such. I have had numerous students in the past tell me that calling your best friend "nigga" or your best girl "bitch" is not only acceptable, it is expected. These are the same kids that greet each other by shooting birds/flipping off etc. (Just for the record, I found it totally, I don't know the best word, maybe STUPID). If that had been the context of of Iban's comment, no problem, BUT, to my knowledge, Iban wasn't commenting to his friend, in fact, he said "yea, one less nigga, yea." My personal opinion is that he simply wanted to make a statement. Granted that statement made him look like a fool (IMO), but he made it none the less. It also shows that he has no respect for others, and very likely he never will. WE cannot change him.
Ban him? If it would do any good, sure. Ignore him? I learned within just a few weeks of being here that that was my best recourse. There are a few "not so good" apples everywhere you go. I just hope that those that were offended, and those that may have been hurt in some way do not let Iban keep them from DPC. If it does, his attitude wins. |
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06/25/2002 11:06:43 PM · #41 |
Actually, this is a rant section so we could argue...uhh..the best flavor of gummi bear and we would be on topic here.
Me...I could care less about banning someone for something they say but the rules clearly say that "Blatant instances of slander, profanity, vulgarity, or other personal attacks anywhere on the site will not be tolerated"..
Plus the rules say "No spot editing".
I mean...I didn't write these rules. Neither did anyone else here. But by particpating here you agree to the rules..just like accepting use of software, etc..
It is perfectly appropriate to discuss obvious rule infractions. Drew even said so in this very thread. |
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06/25/2002 11:09:10 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Actually, this is a rant section so we could argue...uhh..the best flavor of gummi bear and we would be on topic here.
Me...I could care less about banning someone for something they say but the rules clearly say that "Blatant instances of slander, profanity, vulgarity, or other personal attacks anywhere on the site will not be tolerated"..
Plus the rules say "No spot editing".
I mean...I didn''t write these rules. Neither did anyone else here. But by particpating here you agree to the rules..just like accepting use of software, etc..
It is perfectly appropriate to discuss obvious rule infractions. Drew even said so in this very thread.
I like the red ones!
A little gummi bear trivia: In water, they swell and get HUGE. Some members of a youth group I worked with one time was giving a program at church. The action required that they be backstage, and thus had unsupervised access to the bapistry from both the left and right (for non-Baptists/church types: that is a pool of water in the church that is used to "dunk" new members). A few weeks later, the janitor went to check on the baptistry, and there were these huge (like 6 inches) gummi bears in it. Some had sunk, others were floating below the surface. Apparently the kids had been throwing them back adn forth and some had fallen short. I chuckled, others were not so amused.
Another gummi fact: When licked once, they will remain on a bus window for as long as you want them to (works for gummi worms as well).
Back to the regularly scheduled program:
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/25/2002 11:13:02 PM.
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/25/2002 11:13:53 PM. |
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06/25/2002 11:37:28 PM · #43 |
| I'm afraid to say which color gummi bear I like...it could easily be taken out of context. Thanks for the bit of gummi bear trivia, Karma...I'm going to go soak some right now. Does it matter if they're 2 years old and hard as a rock? |
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06/25/2002 11:39:49 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by karmat:
[i]A little gummi bear trivia: In water, they swell and get HUGE. Some members of a youth group I worked with one time was giving a program at church. The action required that they be backstage, and thus had unsupervised access to the bapistry from both the left and right (for non-Baptists/church types: that is a pool of water in the church that is used to "dunk" new members). A few weeks later, the janitor went to check on the baptistry, and there were these huge (like 6 inches) gummi bears in it.[/i
I...personally....cannot WAIT to try this...lol. My weekend is planned..thank you!!! lol :0)
btw..I'm very serious..my kids would love this...lol....just..maybe not in the baptismal... |
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06/25/2002 11:56:26 PM · #45 |
Banning is rather useless, I have been banned from photoSIG 3 times, but still go on and mess with the porn queens every once in a while
What should be done is; delete the damn comments. People say fu#$, and a@#hole all the time too, but do the admin's want that on this site?
Not everyone can ignore offensive comments. If someone put kiddie porn up on the site, saying "ignore it" would cause me to ignore this site!
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06/26/2002 10:29:55 AM · #46 |
i'm youthful (at least to myself :P), and I have friends with whom I use that kind of lingo and slang - and even harsher.
BUT
a) those are my friends. I would never use that terminology with and on strangers, and anyone that would knows that they're being a jerk and is doing it to push buttons. there is no way i would believe otherwise unless that person was raised in a locked closet.
b) there are plenty of other youthful, intelligent, educated people on this site that don't go around making such obnoxious remarks.
c) this is not an isolated incident: this person has a track record of making offensive, unconstructive comments on people's photos that border on personal attacks. why should the burden be on US to give that person the benefit of the doubt? If I say "your photo sucks becuase you're obviously an inbred moron who can't even tie your shoes and should never reproduce', would you give me the benefit of the doubt? 'Haha well he's just youthful.' Bull! If someone says that to you on the street, will you just chuckle and go 'haha, what a typical educated white male'? I doubt it.
When someone does something purposeful to hurt others, they need to be censured. To do otherwise is to give unspoken approval to their actions. Anf if we let them be, they will never learn the consequences of being a butthead.
just my 2 cents .. |
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06/26/2002 11:05:02 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Since you have no protection, the slightest use of a racial slur terrifies you (plural).
Plural of you is 'yall'
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06/26/2002 11:09:54 AM · #48 |
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06/26/2002 11:21:17 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
Anf if we let them be, they will never learn the consequences of being a butthead.
Nah, that's not the way it usually works. Trolls that are ignored get bored and go away. Trolls that cause heated arguments and get banned sign up again under a new name minutes later and keep trolling. Being censured or banned is a victory to them, not a punishment. Some sites that prove themselves to be fun trolling material end up flooded with bored kiddies posting goatse and asking if you have stairs in your house. I know it's counter-intuitive, and if someone acts in a mildly offensive way people generally want to slap them on the wrist to prevent worse behaviour and "send a message", but in reality the only message you're sending is that you're fun to play with.
I know a lot of people are never going to agree with this, at least until they've spent a few years skulking around the internet (and who would want to?). But it's true.
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06/26/2002 11:26:50 AM · #50 |
| I think it would be nice to have an 'ignore' feature where each user is allowed to filter posts from specific users in the forums... |
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