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11/19/2004 03:46:50 AM · #1 |
a
Message edited by author 2007-01-22 17:35:21. |
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11/19/2004 04:39:37 AM · #2 |
I'm sincerely sorry a few uncivilized people have spoiled for you what has otherwise been (for quite a while) considered one of the "better" photography sites.
I look forward to seeing your article -- please post or send me a link when it's done.
Please note that the admins have lately been noticable mainly by their absence -- I believe their time is tied up with coding the revised DPCPrints site and their "day jobs." Most of what you've experienced insofar as site administration has been perpetrated by the volunteers on the Site Council.
Partly due to this situation, there's been an increased level of unaddressed complaints as people suggest changes/improvements and are told to wait ... |
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11/19/2004 06:07:19 AM · #3 |
Originally posted by ajschmidt:
... In writing this I have decided to not involve myself in this site, not submit for challenges, and not post any more in the forums. ... |
There is no compulsion for attendance, what purpose (other than to demoralize those who choose to remain) did this post hope to accomplish?
Originally posted by GeneralE:
... Please note that the admins have lately been noticable mainly by their absence -- I believe their time is tied up with coding the revised DPCPrints site and their "day jobs." Most of what you've experienced insofar as site administration has been perpetrated by the volunteers on the Site Council. ... |
Not that there are any specific ones in which to place a 'fault'.
A strong leader makes informed decisions -- not compromises.
A group, by its very nature, can make nothing but compromises.
:(
David
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11/19/2004 06:33:19 AM · #4 |
I can't see any of this 'long and detailed and educated' advice in a quick browse of your comments. Quite a few that simply say 'FOCUS' (your capitals). One or two with observations about the locations or phenomena in a shot, but really very little photographic advice. another whole heap from the framing challenge which all say 'Try framing a subject next time'. A number that simply say 'no vanishing point' on the vanishing point challenge (even on photos that clearly do use that element).
you'll be missed, i'm sure
Ed |
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11/19/2004 09:47:54 AM · #5 |
Edit: why bother?
Message edited by author 2005-01-11 07:40:26.
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11/19/2004 01:15:29 PM · #6 |
Hi Adam...
I just read your post about resigning from DPChallenge. I'm glad, for some odd reason, that I decided to take a peek at the RANT forum today. I know exactly how you feel and I have been in the same boat at this site for a long time. It's very difficult to find a comfortable 'seat' in that room for sure. There are so many people and so many diverse backgrounds to deal with. Every online forum I have ever visited has the same problem, to some extent. This particular forum reminds me of what it would be like if you had a classroom full of students who ranged between kindergarten and graduate students, with a few detention hall people tossed into the mix as well. This phenomenon is present everywhere you go online, because there is no segregation. Every individual has the same 'status'. Everyone is equal in their abilities to spew forth :)
Your background and interests will be missed here, but I hope you find your 'seat' somewhere soon. When you do, let me know if there are any empty seats that I could possibly fill.
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11/19/2004 01:37:24 PM · #7 |
Hiya Adam,
I just want to say that I totally agree with John.
It's not so much a DPC thing as it is an online thing, since it happens everywhere we go online...
Forum after forum can be seen to exhibit the same kinds of "flaws" you have noted here at DPC.
Look around a few other (large) forums and see for yourself. Then, take a little time and rethink things. Maybe it won't look so bad then. Worked for me.
mcmurma
"It's better to fade out, than it is to rust..." -N. Young
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11/19/2004 01:41:05 PM · #8 |
No no one imparticular, other than the whiners:
if the rants are so upsetting guys, try not reading them!!!!! there are many people on here that never post anything other than photos and photo related topics..
as for someone that doesn't like your critique, then do what they should be doing, ignore them and keep being brutally honest... never hold back the truth... if you make a comment that is not really true, or a comment that is sugar-coated to spare someone's feelings, your only doing them a diservice... they deserve nothing but the truth... if they can't handle the truth, it's their fault and not yours.. why worry about it... so many people are so thin-skinned, politically correct, and or take things much much to seriously... if you post a photo you should expect criticism!!! what is with all the whining, complaining, and resigning lately?
someone call the waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmbulance!
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11/19/2004 01:44:31 PM · #9 |
Good riddance. We will manage without you.
June
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11/19/2004 01:46:58 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by chiqui74:
Good riddance. We will manage without you.
June |
Lovely.
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11/19/2004 02:06:43 PM · #11 |
I tend to agree with Chiqui's sentiment, if not the wording.
I never knew this guy. He gave me nothing, and he leaves me with nothing.
This is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
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11/19/2004 02:09:48 PM · #12 |
Hi Adam:
Regarding your resignation, you are seem to be blessed with the wiser judgement. I am certain you have thought about it carefully. Good luck in the pursuit of your dreams.
However, I do feel that with a broad brush you have painted a very disturbing image of DPC. As your education has taught you, whenever you partake in a motley group your apparant self worth is always reduced and your personal voice becomes just a little smaller. I am not at all talking about actual values, only apparant values. You will find that no amount of education can break through the barriers of ignorance and so many of your good ideas and verbal gems will go unnoticed. Only a handful will embrace you. Of course, your happiness is dependent on your goals.
In defense of the administrators, I must tell you that they unselfishly give of themselves and like you they also fall under attack by the very people they chose to help. I say unselfish, because they run a sight here with the best code in the internet. Theirs is very thorough and I wish other sites would follow their lead. If you look carefully you will see that they give quite a lot of their time with a minimal maintenance fee.
Like you mentioned there are some members whose behaviour is uncooth and no amount of education will help you with them. Here you have to resort to the psychology of the masses. You can also use plain common sense to ignore what can never be resolved.
Like you and many others, I too have started forums to affectuate a change. My experience has been that threads already exist covering similar problems in even more eloquent ways. This does not stop me from pushing forward and battles lost mean nothing because their activity are within the general scope of the site. Too many people, too many ideas.
Again, I want to reassure you that we are not all that dense and that a love for photography trumps our personal agenda. I can also enter a heated discussion, win or lose it but still retain my respect for the parties involved. And when they throw me a tomatoe, I simply wipe my face and understand that it is part of the risk I took in joinning a group.
again: good luck. |
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11/19/2004 02:12:45 PM · #13 |
You know, I've been a member of this site for a little while now, I don't say too much, I don't antagonize people, I don't respond to nasty comments. I'm here to learn and better myself through photography.
My comment is this......did everyone else here not join for the same reason? Are there people here that joined this site looking to fight with others? I would guess not, but then why all the fighting!!! Why don't all these people who feel they have to get the last word in pay a little less attention to what's being said and a little more attention to what's being shown.
If someone wants to leave this site, for whatever reason.....LET THEM GO. Wish them well or don't say anything at all. If they've already decided to leave this site (which BTW I think is really unfortunate because there are some really talented photographers who are leaving) let them leave without trying to pick one last fight with them. It's a waste of time.
For the love of God people.....get behind a camera instead of in front of the computer! |
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11/19/2004 02:14:02 PM · #14 |
I know,we suck and you are professional !
Get a life ! |
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11/19/2004 02:25:39 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
I tend to agree with Chiqui's sentiment, if not the wording.
I never knew this guy. He gave me nothing, and he leaves me with nothing.
This is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. |
I'm glad that you think you have to have received something from someone for that person to have any significance.
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11/19/2004 02:29:03 PM · #16 |
that's not the point.
the point is why the grandstanding and acting like they've given us so much when they havent? why the big public statement of 'im leaving' when no one even knows him? what gives this guy the right to pass judgement on everyone on DPC? His vaunted credentials? I'm sorry it just seems like a big waste of everyone's time.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I'm glad that you think you have to have received something from someone for that person to have any significance. |
Message edited by author 2004-11-19 14:35:01.
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11/19/2004 02:41:39 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
that's not the point.
the point is why the grandstanding and acting like they've given us so much when they havent? why the big public statement of 'im leaving' when no one even knows him? what gives this guy the right to pass judgement on everyone on DPC? His vaunted credentials? I'm sorry it just seems like a big waste of everyone's time.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I'm glad that you think you have to have received something from someone for that person to have any significance. |
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I tend to agree with magnetic. If you are going to leave, just leave. Although im only in the process of becoming "educated" so what do I
know?
This is the first real arguement I have seen on DPC and people are flying out of here like there is no tomorow, they should visit some bad sites on the net to see how bad fights really get in there. As far as I see, DPC only has constructive debates. No need for people to leave such an amazing site.
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11/19/2004 02:44:15 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
that's not the point.
the point is why the grandstanding and acting like they've given us so much when they havent? why the big public statement of 'im leaving' when no one even knows him? what gives this guy the right to pass judgement on everyone on DPC? His vaunted credentials? I'm sorry it just seems like a big waste of everyone's time.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I'm glad that you think you have to have received something from someone for that person to have any significance. |
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I suppose you are right. It doesn't really matter who comes and goes and for what reasons. If they want to post their reasons for leaving, that is fine too.
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11/19/2004 04:48:29 PM · #19 |
As a member of Site Council, I've been biting my tongue to the point of blood while reading these threads... but since magnetic has shown a bit of courage by speaking up, so will I.
I back Mag's sentiments to a tee here. If you have come to the site and find that it's not suiting your needs and it's not helping you progress as a photographer, there's not anyone holding a gun to your head to make you stay.
I have to admit that when I first read a post from ajschmidt a while back, I found it interesting that he was an AP photographer, and I looked forward to having someone of that stature as a member of the site. I also admit that I "googled" him a couple weeks ago because I was very interested in seeing some of his work to learn from him -- sorry if that also makes me a prick -- and I came up empty. I'd be more than happy to learn from someone who offers good and genuine help.
This site is what you make of it. If you're here to flaunt your ego, you're probably not going to stick around very long. Or you'll quit and come back repeatedly as others have done. If you're here to learn photography and you enjoy this hobby, you'll be around daily and you won't be able to get enough of the site as I have done for the past 2+ years.
Message edited by author 2004-11-19 16:50:45. |
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11/19/2004 07:31:25 PM · #20 |
Well said Alan. I think you get what you put in! In Johns case certainly not, he gave a lot and I don`t know how much he got back! Cudos to you John Setzler! I think this site can be very helpful. Look for the good don`t dwell on the bad!!If it gets us out there taking pictures its a good thing!Neil
Message edited by author 2004-11-19 19:47:25. |
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11/20/2004 04:35:31 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by alansfreed:
As a member of Site Council, I've been biting my tongue to the point of blood while reading these threads... but since magnetic has shown a bit of courage by speaking up, so will I.
I back Mag's sentiments to a tee here. If you have come to the site and find that it's not suiting your needs and it's not helping you progress as a photographer, there's not anyone holding a gun to your head to make you stay.
I have to admit that when I first read a post from ajschmidt a while back, I found it interesting that he was an AP photographer, and I looked forward to having someone of that stature as a member of the site. I also admit that I "googled" him a couple weeks ago because I was very interested in seeing some of his work to learn from him -- sorry if that also makes me a prick -- and I came up empty. I'd be more than happy to learn from someone who offers good and genuine help.
This site is what you make of it. If you're here to flaunt your ego, you're probably not going to stick around very long. Or you'll quit and come back repeatedly as others have done. If you're here to learn photography and you enjoy this hobby, you'll be around daily and you won't be able to get enough of the site as I have done for the past 2+ years. |
\
I can understand your sentiment but as John Setzler pointed out it doesn't really matter who you are to matter. But the real proof of strength in a site is in the number of people who stay.
I suppose you would be able look at the data of who comes and who goes and your retention rate of members to see if things are fine ? .
Message edited by author 2004-11-20 04:36:21. |
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11/21/2004 09:38:54 PM · #22 |
Jeez...he made it sound like we are losing something with him leaving.
"I think I will even write an article on my experience for the news wires."
So, in other words.. he's going run off and bash DPC because a few people bashed his photos.
It sounds to me like he hasn't have enough opinions in the past to truely know if his work is good. If you don't get bad opinions your not getting enough.
I don't care how educated you are in this world. Photography is Art. It doesn't take brains to make good art.
Good luck in your search for a community that agrees with everything you do.
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11/21/2004 10:13:45 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Intelli:
Jeez...he made it sound like we are losing something with him leaving.
"I think I will even write an article on my experience for the news wires."
So, in other words.. he's going run off and bash DPC because a few people bashed his photos.
It sounds to me like he hasn't have enough opinions in the past to truely know if his work is good. If you don't get bad opinions your not getting enough.
I don't care how educated you are in this world. Photography is Art. It doesn't take brains to make good art.
Good luck in your search for a community that agrees with everything you do. |
I concur! Just goes to show you, education does not mean maturity. If I whined every time someone didn't like a portrait I did I'd be crying all day long. While I agree there is a constructive way to tell someone 'they suck' and you 'dont like it' most people are not articulate enough to do so (given the abundance of four letter words). Also, anyone expecting society in any part of the world to be 'civilized' is up for a huge disappointment.
I have noticed though that 'help' usually comes from the member challenges (I don't think people pay to be assholes). While the open challenges bring more of the nightmare creatures out to vote. It's real easy to go to a site, create an account, and bash the hell out of people with no real rhyme or reason. I think these people are a majority of what is bothering others.
As far as individual credentials (spelling?) go, they are only as good as the source. I for one am not awed by the AP, Nor am I awed by a 'professor' (as I've known some stupid professors in my time). And with all the cheating going on in colleges, who says anyone actually passes. So all in all I'm playing devil's advocate and saying big deal.
Another thing, I'm not sure that photography is right for you if you need a site to give you a reason to shoot. Maybe that's just me, but I know I shot for a long time before finding this site.
Joe
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11/21/2004 10:39:45 PM · #24 |
It is interesting that this person feels such a strong need to display their academic and work credentials in order to earn some respect as they exit this community.
Surely there are many others here at DPC who have equally impressive credentials, as well as many years of hard earned experience. They do not seem to feel the need to push them out in front of everyone for all to see as a means to gain credibility and earn respect. Deeds speak louder than words.
Education is a good thing. But, they say it is often wasted on youth. Perhaps, this is the case here - an issue of young idealistic views?
Whatever the case, if the site is not a good fit for this person, then they are wise to move on. They can search for something that is better suited to their specific requirements.
We all fit somewhere...
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11/23/2004 05:47:44 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by ajschmidt:
I am an educated individual-AJ |
? ! |
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