Author | Thread |
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05/05/2010 06:46:45 AM · #601 |
Is there a way to see what the team % are for the 2nd round? |
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05/05/2010 10:36:26 AM · #602 |
Again... ignoring Leagues, Conferences and Divisions... how does everyone compare?
Current Rank Previous Rank Delta Team Seeding Overall
1 1 - The Jawbones 3 97.21%
2 2 - Aperture 5 96.56%
3 4 +1 X FACTOR 1 95.73%
4 3 -1 Team Arabesque 7 92.38%
5 6 +1 Trigger Happy 4 91.86%
6 8 +2 IMAGIO 2 91.11%
7 5 -2 Critical Mass 8 90.92%
8 11 +3 Glasseye 6 88.97%
9 10 +1 Team Australia 13 88.67%
10 14 +4 GlobeTrotters 12 84.67%
11 18 +7 Team Stranger 20 84.57%
12 13 +1 imagenation 14 84.43%
13 9 -4 Team Discovery 9 83.96%
14 12 -2 Team Canada 10 83.62%
15 16 +1 DPC Pirates 33 82.79%
16 17 +1 ViewFinders 30 82.35%
17 15 -2 YoungGuns 22 79.89%
18 19 +1 Oly-oops 37 79.87%
19 20 +1 Longshots 31 79.81%
20 23 +3 International Shooter's Organization 17 78.27%
21 34 +13 Brainstorm 28 75.01%
22 7 -15 The Country Cruisers 24 73.35%
23 26 +3 The Underchallenged 41 71.76%
24 22 -2 F/ATE 15 71.37%
25 24 -1 The Village Burners 19 70.67%
26 25 -1 Dream On 36 70.64%
27 33 +6 Australia A 39 69.69%
28 21 -7 Team Toonies 26 67.78%
29 30 +1 Dodge & Burn 16 66.70%
30 27 -3 Out of Focusers 2 46 66.10%
31 29 -2 Panda Dog 18 65.68%
32 42 +10 (Really) Dark Black Sheep 40 65.20%
33 28 -5 Team Spleen 45 64.79%
34 32 -2 The Buzzards 27 61.54%
35 31 -4 TEAM 48 25 61.48%
36 36 - Femme Fatale 35 57.80%
37 41 +4 Flash of Colors 42 57.74%
38 37 -1 Visual Communication 43 55.72%
39 43 +4 The Polaroids 23 55.46%
40 40 - The Light Show 34 55.32%
41 38 -3 Team UK 38 54.38%
42 39 -3 Wildscreen 32 51.17%
43 35 -8 Havin Fun 44 43.27%
44 45 +1 20 point something 47 38.98%
45 46 +1 VALOPTIC 29 34.07%
46 44 -2 citizens of the world 21 28.22%
47 48 +1 tiny stoats! 48 27.14%
48 47 -1 Flat Tire 11 22.30%
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05/05/2010 11:07:46 AM · #603 |
Originally posted by vlado: One those... surely they should be ranked according to percentile, not average vote, as they are now. |
Yes, I noticed that for Round 2, my team's top 5 photos are displayed/ranked by vote, not by percentage.
To see the qualifying photos: On the DPC menu bar, choose League / Overview, then click on Current Standings on the left-hand menu. From there you can click on the "Average" for each team. |
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05/05/2010 11:27:44 AM · #604 |
Yeah... got that and see that they show the correct images, but they're ordered according to average vote, not percentile. It's minor, but doesn't make sense given it's all about percentages this time. I'd rate having a head-to-head score comparison for each round as a higher priority. Without crunching the numbers, there's no way to see how close a contest it was or wasn't.
For those interested, here are the scores as I've calculated... need to do the head-to-head comparisons for yourself (until they're included as a stat on the DPL pages that is)
Seeding Team Round 1 Round 2
1 X FACTOR 93.97% 97.48%
2 IMAGIO 89.67% 92.55%
3 The Jawbones 97.79% 96.63%
4 Trigger Happy 92.30% 91.42%
5 Aperture 96.88% 96.24%
6 Glasseye 87.20% 90.74%
7 Team Arabesque 94.34% 90.42%
8 Critical Mass 93.69% 88.16%
9 Team Discovery 88.62% 79.29%
10 Team Canada 87.10% 80.13%
11 Flat Tire 23.01% 21.58%
12 GlobeTrotters 86.40% 82.93%
13 Team Australia 88.45% 88.90%
14 imagenation 87.04% 81.81%
15 F/ATE 79.30% 63.43%
16 Dodge & Burn 68.13% 65.27%
17 International Shooter's Organization 76.35% 80.20%
18 Panda Dog 70.05% 61.32%
19 The Village Burners 75.18% 66.16%
20 Team Stranger 82.93% 86.20%
21 citizens of the world 37.02% 19.43%
22 YoungGuns 85.85% 73.94%
23 The Polaroids 44.50% 66.42%
24 The Country Cruisers 91.53% 55.18%
25 TEAM 48 66.28% 56.69%
26 Team Toonies 79.37% 56.19%
27 The Buzzards 65.96% 57.12%
28 Brainstorm 61.61% 88.41%
29 VALOPTIC 27.43% 40.72%
30 ViewFinders 84.71% 79.98%
31 Longshots 79.49% 80.14%
32 Wildscreen 59.31% 43.03%
33 DPC Pirates 85.84% 79.73%
34 The Light Show 58.38% 52.26%
35 Femme Fatale 60.39% 55.21%
36 Dream On 73.70% 67.58%
37 Oly-oops 81.23% 78.51%
38 Team UK 59.44% 49.31%
39 Australia A 65.11% 74.28%
40 (Really) Dark Black Sheep 49.36% 81.05%
41 The Underchallenged 73.29% 70.23%
42 Flash of Colors 53.05% 62.43%
43 Visual Communication 59.91% 51.53%
44 Havin Fun 60.50% 26.04%
45 Team Spleen 71.48% 58.11%
46 Out of Focusers 2 71.53% 60.68%
47 20 point something 35.78% 42.17%
48 tiny stoats! 20.81% 33.46%
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05/12/2010 01:26:24 AM · #605 |
FWIW... Overall standings after Round 3
Current Rank Previous Rank Delta Team Name Seeding Current Average
1 3 2 X FACTOR 1 94.68%
2 2 0 Aperture 5 92.42%
3 1 -2 The Jawbones 3 92.36%
4 7 3 Critical Mass 8 90.63%
5 5 0 Trigger Happy 4 90.41%
6 4 -2 Team Arabesque 7 88.15%
7 6 -1 IMAGIO 2 87.65%
8 9 1 Team Australia 13 87.08%
9 14 5 Team Canada 10 85.97%
10 8 -2 Glasseye 6 85.92%
11 12 1 imagenation 14 85.40%
12 11 -1 Team Stranger 20 84.43%
13 13 0 Team Discovery 9 83.96%
14 10 -4 GlobeTrotters 12 81.61%
15 24 9 F/ATE 15 78.50%
16 25 9 The Village Burners 19 78.35%
17 17 0 YoungGuns 22 78.31%
18 15 -3 DPC Pirates 33 78.11%
19 16 -3 ViewFinders 30 77.95%
20 20 0 International Shooter's Organization 17 76.91%
21 18 -3 Oly-oops 37 75.99%
22 29 7 Dodge & Burn 16 75.47%
23 21 -2 Brainstorm 28 74.49%
24 19 -5 Longshots 31 71.17%
25 26 1 Dream On 36 70.58%
26 22 -4 The Country Cruisers 24 69.79%
27 23 -4 The Underchallenged 41 67.49%
28 27 -1 Australia A 39 66.54%
29 34 5 The Buzzards 27 64.87%
30 33 3 Team Spleen 45 63.69%
31 31 0 Panda Dog 18 62.89%
32 40 8 The Light Show 34 61.07%
33 32 -1 (Really) Dark Black Sheep 40 60.97%
34 30 -4 Out of Focusers 2 46 59.63%
35 37 2 Flash of Colors 42 59.33%
36 35 -1 TEAM 48 25 56.50%
37 36 -1 Femme Fatale 35 54.99%
38 41 3 Team UK 38 54.44%
39 28 -11 Team Toonies 26 52.40%
40 38 -2 Visual Communication 43 50.98%
41 39 -2 The Polaroids 23 45.59%
42 42 0 Wildscreen 32 45.20%
43 44 1 20 point something 47 42.29%
44 43 -1 Havin Fun 44 36.18%
45 45 0 VALOPTIC 29 33.91%
46 46 0 citizens of the world 21 32.46%
47 47 0 tiny stoats! 48 24.32%
48 48 0 Flat Tire 11 21.15%
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05/12/2010 05:46:55 AM · #606 |
Originally posted by vlado: FWIW... Overall standings after Round 3
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thanks!!
it would be great if you could post the results for just round 3 |
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05/12/2010 03:20:23 PM · #607 |
Originally posted by glad2badad: Personally, I think we've had a pretty good mix of challenge types thus far, and not so easy either IMO!
I think Langdon should do a Bokeh challenge during the DPL - those are ALWAYS good for the "what is bokeh" exchange of info. :-D |
Ummmm....Thanks Langdon! :-) |
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05/12/2010 07:50:21 PM · #608 |
Originally posted by nutzito: Originally posted by vlado: FWIW... Overall standings after Round 3
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thanks!!
it would be great if you could post the results for just round 3 |
Something like this?
Rd3 Rank Team Seeding Rd3%
1 The Village Burners 19 93.71%
2 Dodge & Burn 16 93.00%
3 F/ATE 15 92.77%
4 X FACTOR 1 92.60%
5 Team Canada 10 90.69%
6 Critical Mass 8 90.03%
7 Trigger Happy 4 87.52%
8 imagenation 14 87.34%
9 Team Stranger 20 84.15%
10 Aperture 5 84.14%
11 Team Discovery 9 83.98%
12 Team Australia 13 83.90%
13 The Jawbones 3 82.66%
14 IMAGIO 2 80.72%
15 Glasseye 6 79.81%
16 Team Arabesque 7 79.68%
17 GlobeTrotters 12 75.50%
18 YoungGuns 22 75.14%
19 International Shooter's Organization 17 74.17%
20 Brainstorm 28 73.46%
21 The Light Show 34 72.56%
22 The Buzzards 27 71.52%
23 Dream On 36 70.47%
24 ViewFinders 30 69.15%
25 DPC Pirates 33 68.77%
26 Oly-oops 37 68.24%
27 The Country Cruisers 24 62.66%
28 Flash of Colors 42 62.52%
29 Team Spleen 45 61.47%
30 Australia A 39 60.22%
31 The Underchallenged 41 58.96%
32 Panda Dog 18 57.30%
33 Team UK 38 54.56%
34 Longshots 31 53.88%
35 (Really) Dark Black Sheep 40 52.50%
36 Femme Fatale 35 49.36%
37 20 point something 47 48.93%
38 Out of Focusers 2 46 46.69%
39 TEAM 48 25 46.54%
40 Visual Communication 43 41.49%
41 citizens of the world 21 40.93%
42 VALOPTIC 29 33.57%
43 Wildscreen 32 33.27%
44 The Polaroids 23 25.85%
45 Havin Fun 44 21.99%
46 Team Toonies 26 21.63%
47 Flat Tire 11 18.86%
48 tiny stoats! 48 18.68%
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05/13/2010 10:02:21 AM · #609 |
Originally posted by vlado:
Something like this?
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yes
thanks! |
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05/13/2010 10:04:19 AM · #610 |
Thanks vlado!
BURNINATE! |
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05/13/2010 11:49:31 AM · #611 |
BURNINATE!
Message edited by author 2010-05-13 11:58:48.
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05/13/2010 01:12:22 PM · #612 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip: BURNINATE! |
As I was pointing out a couple weeks ago, to our team, "We should thank our lucky stars we don't face the Village Burners in the Movie Poster challenge, and boy, was I right! Awesome finish guys, powers-that-be gave you a home-field advantage and you just RAN with it!
(Any team with a ROFLMAO leading it and a STRIKESLIP conceptualizing has got the edge on that sort of stuff :-)
R.
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05/25/2010 01:26:30 AM · #613 |
So what happens after play-offs? I've read somewhere that there would be 3-4 seasons/year. Is that for real? |
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05/26/2010 12:36:47 AM · #614 |
FWIW... Overall Standings after Round 4
Current Rank Previous Rank Delta Team Name Seeding Average
1 1 0 X FACTOR 1 92.93%
2 3 1 The Jawbones 3 92.54%
3 4 1 Critical Mass 8 91.91%
4 6 2 Team Arabesque 7 89.66%
5 2 -3 Aperture 5 89.57%
6 5 -1 Trigger Happy 4 88.76%
7 7 0 IMAGIO 2 88.59%
8 10 2 Glasseye 6 86.58%
9 11 2 imagenation 14 86.12%
10 9 -1 Team Canada 10 85.68%
11 13 2 Team Discovery 9 85.25%
12 8 -4 Team Australia 13 83.98%
13 12 -1 Team Stranger 20 82.76%
14 16 2 The Village Burners 19 81.40%
15 19 4 ViewFinders 30 80.82%
16 14 -2 GlobeTrotters 12 80.22%
17 17 0 YoungGuns 22 80.11%
18 18 0 DPC Pirates 33 80.06%
19 21 2 Oly-oops 37 78.73%
20 20 0 International Shooter's Organization 17 78.16%
21 15 -6 F/ATE 15 77.87%
22 22 0 Dodge & Burn 16 76.40%
23 24 1 Longshots 31 71.95%
24 26 2 The Country Cruisers 24 71.50%
25 29 4 The Buzzards 27 70.31%
26 23 -3 Brainstorm 28 69.69%
27 27 0 The Underchallenged 41 69.31%
28 28 0 Australia A 39 67.87%
29 25 -4 Dream On 36 66.24%
30 30 0 Team Spleen 45 64.66%
31 32 1 The Light Show 34 64.65%
32 38 6 Team UK 38 62.37%
33 33 0 (Really) Dark Black Sheep 40 61.33%
34 31 -3 Panda Dog 18 60.78%
35 34 -1 Out of Focusers 2 46 60.06%
36 36 0 TEAM 48 25 58.28%
37 35 -2 Flash of Colors 42 56.89%
38 40 2 Visual Communication 43 54.48%
39 37 -2 Femme Fatale 35 50.48%
40 39 -1 Team Toonies 26 49.06%
41 43 2 20 point something 47 44.91%
42 42 0 Wildscreen 32 40.39%
43 44 1 Havin Fun 44 36.78%
44 41 -3 The Polaroids 23 35.10%
45 46 1 citizens of the world 21 33.66%
46 45 -1 VALOPTIC 29 28.43%
47 48 1 Flat Tire 11 20.47%
48 47 -1 tiny stoats! 48 18.88%
And standings for Round 4 itself
Rd4 Rank Team Name Seeding Round 4
1 Critical Mass 8 95.77%
2 Team Arabesque 7 94.18%
3 The Jawbones 3 93.07%
4 IMAGIO 2 91.41%
5 The Village Burners 19 90.56%
6 ViewFinders 30 89.43%
7 Team Discovery 9 89.11%
8 Glasseye 6 88.58%
9 imagenation 14 88.31%
10 X FACTOR 1 87.67%
11 Oly-oops 37 86.96%
12 The Buzzards 27 86.64%
13 Team UK 38 86.15%
14 DPC Pirates 33 85.90%
15 YoungGuns 22 85.51%
16 Team Canada 10 84.79%
17 Trigger Happy 4 83.80%
18 International Shooter's Organization 17 81.92%
19 Aperture 5 81.01%
20 Dodge & Burn 16 79.20%
21 Team Stranger 20 77.75%
22 The Country Cruisers 24 76.65%
23 GlobeTrotters 12 76.04%
24 F/ATE 15 75.97%
25 The Light Show 34 75.38%
26 The Underchallenged 41 74.78%
27 Team Australia 13 74.66%
28 Longshots 31 74.30%
29 Australia A 39 71.89%
30 Team Spleen 45 67.59%
31 Visual Communication 43 64.97%
32 TEAM 48 25 63.60%
33 (Really) Dark Black Sheep 40 62.42%
34 Out of Focusers 2 46 61.34%
35 Brainstorm 28 55.26%
36 Panda Dog 18 54.46%
37 Dream On 36 53.22%
38 20 point something 47 52.77%
39 Flash of Colors 42 49.54%
40 Team Toonies 26 39.06%
41 Havin Fun 44 38.59%
42 citizens of the world 21 37.25%
43 Femme Fatale 35 36.96%
44 Wildscreen 32 25.95%
45 Flat Tire 11 18.44%
46 VALOPTIC 29 12.01%
47 The Polaroids 23 3.61%
48 tiny stoats! 48 2.58%
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06/02/2010 09:57:08 PM · #615 |
Okay... just for completeness... the Overall Standings after Round 5
Current Rank Previous Rank Delta Team Name Seeding Average
1 2 1 The Jawbones 3 93.04%
2 1 -1 X FACTOR 1 92.76%
3 3 0 Critical Mass 8 91.28%
4 6 2 Trigger Happy 4 89.29%
5 4 -1 Team Arabesque 7 89.24%
6 7 1 IMAGIO 2 88.32%
7 5 -2 Aperture 5 87.81%
8 8 0 Glasseye 6 87.37%
9 9 0 imagenation 14 85.90%
10 11 1 Team Discovery 9 85.52%
11 12 1 Team Australia 13 82.11%
12 10 -2 Team Canada 10 82.07%
13 15 2 ViewFinders 30 81.50%
14 14 0 The Village Burners 19 81.48%
15 16 1 GlobeTrotters 12 80.43%
16 18 2 DPC Pirates 33 79.78%
17 13 -4 Team Stranger 20 78.88%
18 19 1 Oly-oops 37 77.87%
19 20 1 International Shooter's Organization 17 77.69%
20 22 2 Dodge & Burn 16 76.81%
21 24 3 The Country Cruisers 24 74.35%
22 17 -5 YoungGuns 22 74.30%
23 21 -2 F/ATE 15 73.98%
24 23 -1 Longshots 31 72.83%
25 26 1 Brainstorm 28 71.08%
26 27 1 The Underchallenged 41 69.17%
27 28 1 Australia A 39 68.71%
28 25 -3 The Buzzards 27 67.91%
29 29 0 Dream On 36 66.41%
30 32 2 Team UK 38 66.02%
31 30 -1 Team Spleen 45 64.62%
32 33 1 (Really) Dark Black Sheep 40 60.59%
33 31 -2 The Light Show 34 59.99%
34 36 2 TEAM 48 25 59.59%
35 34 -1 Panda Dog 18 59.11%
36 35 -1 Out of Focusers 2 46 58.95%
37 38 1 Visual Communication 43 52.43%
38 37 -1 Flash of Colors 42 51.57%
39 39 0 Femme Fatale 35 50.07%
40 40 0 Team Toonies 26 48.87%
41 41 0 20 point something 47 43.87%
42 42 0 Wildscreen 32 40.02%
43 43 0 Havin Fun 44 31.76%
44 45 1 citizens of the world 21 30.97%
45 44 -1 The Polaroids 23 28.08%
46 46 0 VALOPTIC 29 23.46%
47 47 0 Flat Tire 11 20.88%
48 48 0 tiny stoats! 48 16.90%
And the standings for Round 5 itself
Rd5 Rank Team Name Seeding Round 5
1 The Jawbones 3 95.04%
2 X FACTOR 1 92.07%
3 Trigger Happy 4 91.38%
4 Glasseye 6 90.54%
5 Critical Mass 8 88.76%
6 Team Arabesque 7 87.59%
7 IMAGIO 2 87.23%
8 Team Discovery 9 86.60%
9 The Country Cruisers 24 85.71%
10 imagenation 14 84.99%
11 ViewFinders 30 84.23%
12 The Village Burners 19 81.80%
13 GlobeTrotters 12 81.31%
14 Aperture 5 80.78%
15 Team UK 38 80.61%
16 DPC Pirates 33 78.66%
17 Dodge & Burn 16 78.46%
18 Brainstorm 28 76.64%
19 Longshots 31 76.34%
20 International Shooter's Organization 17 75.83%
21 Team Australia 13 74.66%
22 Oly-oops 37 74.43%
23 Australia A 39 72.07%
24 The Underchallenged 41 68.61%
25 Team Canada 10 67.66%
26 Dream On 36 67.07%
27 TEAM 48 25 64.83%
28 Team Spleen 45 64.47%
29 Team Stranger 20 63.35%
30 F/ATE 15 58.41%
31 The Buzzards 27 58.30%
32 (Really) Dark Black Sheep 40 57.61%
33 Out of Focusers 2 46 54.50%
34 Panda Dog 18 52.41%
35 YoungGuns 22 51.07%
36 Femme Fatale 35 48.45%
37 Team Toonies 26 48.09%
38 Visual Communication 43 44.24%
39 The Light Show 34 41.38%
40 20 point something 47 39.69%
41 Wildscreen 32 38.55%
42 Flash of Colors 42 30.33%
43 Flat Tire 11 22.48%
44 citizens of the world 21 20.23%
45 Havin Fun 44 11.70%
46 tiny stoats! 48 8.94%
47 VALOPTIC 29 3.54%
48 The Polaroids 23 0.00%
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06/02/2010 10:07:39 PM · #616 |
And one final interesting stat, especially for this who claim the DPL has negatively impacted scores. On average team percentiles were up by 10.31% during of the competition, i.e. teams finished with Average % higher than their Seed Average.
The best performers on this measure:
Team Name Seeding Average SeedAvg Delta
Oly-oops 37 77.87% 48.76% 29.11%
Team Spleen 45 64.62% 35.76% 28.86%
ViewFinders 30 81.50% 53.23% 28.27%
DPC Pirates 33 79.78% 52.93% 26.85%
Out of Focusers 2 46 58.95% 32.15% 26.80%
The Underchallenged 41 69.17% 43.14% 26.04%
The Village Burners 19 81.48% 58.29% 23.20%
Team Stranger 20 78.88% 56.86% 22.01%
Australia A 39 68.71% 47.10% 21.62%
Longshots 31 72.83% 53.15% 19.69% |
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06/05/2010 09:43:51 AM · #617 |
Does anyone know why the play-off schedule is not published yet ?
Message edited by author 2010-06-05 09:45:06. |
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06/05/2010 09:51:11 AM · #618 |
Originally posted by vlado: And one final interesting stat, especially for this who claim the DPL has negatively impacted scores. On average team percentiles were up by 10.31% during of the competition, i.e. teams finished with Average % higher than their Seed Average.
The best performers on this measure:
Team Name Seeding Average SeedAvg Delta
Oly-oops 37 77.87% 48.76% 29.11%
Team Spleen 45 64.62% 35.76% 28.86%
ViewFinders 30 81.50% 53.23% 28.27%
DPC Pirates 33 79.78% 52.93% 26.85%
Out of Focusers 2 46 58.95% 32.15% 26.80%
The Underchallenged 41 69.17% 43.14% 26.04%
The Village Burners 19 81.48% 58.29% 23.20%
Team Stranger 20 78.88% 56.86% 22.01%
Australia A 39 68.71% 47.10% 21.62%
Longshots 31 72.83% 53.15% 19.69% |
Vlado, but you realize that this is a highly skewed statistic, right? The seeding was determined on the average of all the entries from team members during some pre-determined time, and the average during the season is calculated based on 5 best images out of however many have been submitted during the week.
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06/05/2010 05:05:14 PM · #619 |
Originally posted by vlado: And one final interesting stat, especially for this who claim the DPL has negatively impacted scores. On average team percentiles were up by 10.31% during of the competition, i.e. teams finished with Average % higher than their Seed Average.
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It would be interesting to know if actual scores (not percentiles) were up or down. |
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06/07/2010 09:47:51 AM · #620 |
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06/07/2010 09:51:59 AM · #621 |
The first link just takes us to the home page.
I was hoping, along with others, that there might be wild card teams in the playoffs. Guess not. Let's root on those who made it.
Message edited by author 2010-06-07 09:52:16. |
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06/07/2010 09:57:30 AM · #622 |
Matches
Brackets
Message edited by author 2010-06-07 10:05:25. |
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06/07/2010 12:36:51 PM · #623 |
Perhaps it's a typo but on the front page it says.
The DPL Season 2 Playoffs are not underway. Good luck to those top-placing teams! You can view the brackets here.
So are they now underway and it is a typo, or they not underway as it says? |
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06/07/2010 12:45:07 PM · #624 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Perhaps it's a typo but on the front page it says.
The DPL Season 2 Playoffs are not underway. Good luck to those top-placing teams! You can view the brackets here.
So are they now underway and it is a typo, or they not underway as it says? |
Definitely a typo - since when you click on the bracket link it takes you to the current head to head. I sent a ticket but no fix yet. Last I looked no SC were officially logged on - although they are always lurking watching right? Eta: there are three on now - I am sure it'll get fixed quickly.
Message edited by author 2010-06-07 12:45:53. |
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06/07/2010 12:46:32 PM · #625 |
One thing I learned during more than 25 years in the printing industry is that there's always a typo ... :-( |
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