So you want to shoot sports? - DPChallenge Forums

Tamron AF 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical for Canon

03/14/2010 01:22:39 AM · #1

Well 'so' did I! 'So' over 4 years ago I sent a small portfolio 'to' the local paper and was hired on as a freelancer. Some four years later I've covered just about every sport 'you' could imagine. Some I didn't know really were 'sports' until after I arrived. I've shot nearly 200,000 'sports' images, occasionally I even get a good one. I've spent a lot of money on equipment, a lot of time reading and studying some of the great 'Sports' photographers(some are even members here), and most importantly I've spent a lot of time behind the camera finding out what works and what doesn't work. 'So' with all of that in mind 'you' have 'to' be asking yourself, what they hell does any of that mean 'to' me? Well here it is, I'm going 'to' put this thread here and offer pointers and advice 'to' any and all who think my time behind the camera can help them.

Am I a great 'sports' photographer? no! Am I a famous 'sports' photographer? NO! 'So' why am I offering 'to' help? Well because I owe a lot of my success in this crazy game 'to' a few of the members here. There is no sign up sheet, there is no commitment from 'you' 'to' be made. I'll post a few images from my 'sports' assignments each week, 'you' do the same. I'll make some comments and suggestions about what 'you' did right, and what I feel could be done different 'to' make it a better image. I'll also offer some insight into gear, settings, positioning, AF pointers as well. Is your kid going 'to' play soccer/baseball/track/rugby(OK not rugby I've never shot that)? 'want' some basic help on setting up your camera and lens 'to' give 'you' a starting point? Ask here and I'll offer what I can. I hope other 'sports' photographers will join in and do the same.

Matt

JokersSoul

Canon EOS-50D

03/14/2010 01:32:13 AM · #2

Cool idea Matt. I have kiddos in my family that do Football, Wrestling, Cheerleading, etc. Would love pointers as 'to' where 'to' even get started.

I will post some wrestling one's that I took... and boy do they need work!

Thanks!!

Ammie

Nikon D500

Sigma 18-250mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS HSM

03/14/2010 01:40:09 AM · #3

Yes real cool. In the course of my work I often have 'to' take 'sports' pictures and I do battle. 'So' thank 'you'. What a great place this is.

03/14/2010 04:29:28 AM · #4

Yes I do, and (currently) No I can't...

I think I may well take advantage of this excellent opportunity 'you' are opening up... Thanks either way!

Hifi

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

03/14/2010 04:42:09 AM · #5

Matt, I would thoroughly appreciate gaining any knowledge, skills and help 'you' are willing 'to' give.

see

Canon PowerShot S95

03/14/2010 06:00:15 AM · #6

First question, do 'you' 'shoot' in JPEG (max FPS) or RAW for quality? Also in what mode do 'you' 'shoot'?

03/14/2010 06:24:07 AM · #7

I notice most of your shots are shot at ISO's my camera doesn't even have, and with almost sickeningly low noise...

I can 'shoot' pretty OKish up 'to' ISO 2000, but past that and noise is just too ugly for me what suggestions do 'you' have?

I guess those of us who have off-camera flash setups could use that 'to' get the shot (with perhaps spectacular results if done right...).

'So', did 'you' always use that killer hardware 'to' 'shoot' 'sports', or did 'you' once have some junk like me? If 'so', how did 'you' overcome that?

-Cheers

Message edited by author 2010-03-15 00:00:00.

zxaar

03/14/2010 08:14:10 AM · #8

Originally posted by coryboehne:

Sooo, IYHO ;), for 'sports', how well is my 50D really going 'to' do? I notice most of your shots are shot at ISO's my camera doesn't even have, and with almost sickeningly low noise...

I can 'shoot' pretty OKish up 'to' ISO 2000, but past that and noise is just too ugly for me (and it's not great at 2k either)..

I'm sure that I'm really in a pretty good situation compared 'to' quite a few DPC'ers when it comes 'to' high ISO performance, 'so' for all of us who haven't yet sprung for that sexyness 'you' call a 1D Mark IV, what suggestions do 'you' have?

I guess those of us who have off-camera flash setups could use that 'to' get the shot (with perhaps spectacular results if done right...).

'So', did 'you' always use that killer hardware 'to' 'shoot' 'sports', or did 'you' once have some junk like me? If 'so', how did 'you' overcome that? If not, well, then I guess I need 'to' come up with $5k...

if high iso is your only concern, a used d90 is very good. but it is nikon.

Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G

03/14/2010 08:31:38 AM · #9

Thanks Again!

-Cheers :)

Message edited by author 2010-03-14 23:59:17.

see

Canon PowerShot S95

03/14/2010 08:43:33 AM · #10

As I understand from reading specs, the EOS Rebel T2i is getting great reviews even compared 'to' the 7D, and might make a great 'sports'- 2end camera

bmartuch

Nikon D7200

03/14/2010 10:29:12 AM · #11

I have a question. Do 'you' use a flash at a basketball game or do they look down on that in the gyms?

03/14/2010 10:41:29 AM · #12

Originally posted by alans_world:

First question, do 'you' 'shoot' in JPEG (max FPS) or RAW for quality? Also in what mode do 'you' 'shoot'?

For 'sports' I normally 'shoot' in JPEG highest quality, set a custom white balance and almost always 'shoot' in Manual mode, especially indoors where the lighting is consistant. If I'm shooting outside field 'sports' I will occasionally go 'to' AV(APerture priority) mode if I'm dealing with high sun and dark shadow areas within the field. I always use Alservo(continuous) focus mode and my FPS setting never changes. However I rarely 'shoot' a burst of more then 8 frames on a single play.

Matt

03/14/2010 10:52:51 AM · #13

Originally posted by coryboehne:

Did I always have killer equipment? No, when I started for the paper I was shooting with an Olympus E1 and E300 and various lens. I then had a 30D and some off brand Sigma and Tamron lenses. There are many successful photographer that work with lesser equipment and do very well with it.

I've got 'to' be honest with 'you' Digital noise is easier 'to' deal with then motion blur which there is no possible way 'to' deal with. Even with my older equipment I was pushing MAX ISO setting. When 'you' go 'to' upper ISO levels proper exposure is even more important then ever, always expose a bit 'to' the right.

I 'shoot' in some of the darkest and oldest gyms in the area, off camera flash is my only option in some of these in order 'to' get anything half usable.

This photo is 6400ISO in one of my darkest gyms with lights that cycle terrible.

This is with off camera flash(3 580EXII's) fired with Cybersyncs in a gym that ambient lighting is 1/200, F1.8, ISO8000. 'You' can see why my option is 'to' use off camera flash.

There is a lot into setting up off camera flash in this type of setting though, 'you' should never walk into a gym and just set it up, there is much 'to' do ahead of time just 'to' be able 'to' set it up, and not all AD(athletic directors) or SID's('Sports' information Directors) will allow 'you' 'to', and none will without insurance.

Matt

03/14/2010 10:56:50 AM · #14

Originally posted by bmartuch:

I have a question. Do 'you' use a flash at a basketball game or do they look down on that in the gyms?

Flash is normally considered taboo on camera and directly in the faces of the players, no matter the sport. Sometimes it simply can't be avoided due 'to' dark gyms or poor field lighting, however 'you' must arrive early, get approval of the officials who ultimately run the show there. And if there are any complaints from the players or coaches 'you' must stop using it immediately. I prefer in my darker gyms 'to' set up remote flashes and bounce it if possible.

Matt

03/14/2010 12:08:41 PM · #15

Some generalizations about 'sports' that I have observed in my daily work.

What makes a good 'sports' image? Faces, Peak action, and ball in frame, if a stick and ball sport. Also try 'to' remember 'to' notice what 'you' are looking at in your backgrounds. Cleaner backgrounds in 'sports' are just as important as portraits, however in HS 'sports', college 'sports', and club 'sports' this isn't always possible. 'You' deal with what 'you' are handed.

Watch your horizons! Straight horizons are one of the hardest things, for me still as well, 'to' get. Many times I have 'to' fix them in post, following fast action with your camera and keeping it level is next 'to' impossible.

Faster glass will help 'you' stop action and isolate your subjects from busy backgrounds, but put more stress on your AF system. I prefer 'to' 'shoot' wide open or stopped down one stop if needed for Depth of Field.

Noise is subjective, I would rather deal with a noisy stopped action shot from high ISO then one with motion blur that can't be dealt with in post. I routinely push my equipment 'to' it's limit 'to' try and stop action. Stopping it is easiest at peak points, which allows 'you' 'to' 'shoot' slower shutter speeds but 'you' will also get many less keepers.

Be prepared 'to' 'shoot' many frames a game and get a smaller keeper ratio then 'you' ever imagined. Some days positioning on your part, actions of the participants, and of course the official walking in front of your lens(affectionatly called ref butt shots) can not be avoided. Don't just 'shoot' and 'shoot' and 'shoot' some more. 'Shoot' smarter! Wait for the action 'to' come 'to' 'you', it's not possible 'to' 'shoot' every play of every game. 'Shoot' from your position 'you' picked and let the action come 'to' 'you', if 'you' continually move trying 'to' get the shot, 'you' will miss nearly all of them. Pick a spot and 'shoot' it for a quarter or a half.

Learn your sport. If 'you' are going 'to' effectively 'shoot' a sport 'you' must know the sport. 'You' need 'to' anticipate where the play might be going next 'to' be prepared of where 'to' 'shoot' next. Runner on first, will he be stealing? Will a ground ball produce a double play? These are the things that pro's know and anticipate 'to' get those amazing shots 'you' see.

More 'to' come, questions about what I wrote? Need something clarified? Just put it here and I'll answer it if possible.

Matt

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G IF-ED VR

03/14/2010 12:31:54 PM · #16

Another challenge in shooting indoor 'sports' is the phenom known as light cycling. As seen in this GIF from a very good 'sports' photographer in Kansas. Notice how not only the brightness but even the colors that are cast on the players will change. This is another reason why many of the top photographers and schools use strobes 'to' stop action and prevent these color cast issues.

I'll post a series of photos showing this from one of the worst gyms I 'shoot' in, in a bit.

Matt

Luci11e

Nikon D40

03/14/2010 12:45:58 PM · #17

Matt, thank 'you' for this! I started shooting football this past fall and although all the parents & kids loved the work I did I know I have more 'to' learn. I also shot wrestling this past season. THAT is the hardest thing 'to' 'shoot'! Trying 'to' get good shots of the kids without a lot of "butt" is really hard! lol I may be shooting some soccer next week, just for the experience.

03/14/2010 12:57:16 PM · #18

Shutter speeds I use as min settings 'to' get usable images. Lens selection and ISO vary depending on what gym I am in. Usually shooting wide open or close 'to' it. Can 'you' get usable images at lower shutter speeds? yes does your keeper rate drop below this thresh hold yes!

Winter 'sports'
Basketball HS level
Girls 1/400
Boys 1/500
Wrestling 1/250
Hockey 1/640

Spring 'sports'
Baseball 1/2500
Softball 1/2000
Soccer 1/1600
Track Varies based on events. Ask and I'll offer help
Golf 1/2000 action 1/250 setup shots

Summer is essentially baseball 'so' refer 'to' spring 'sports'

Fall 'sports'

Football 1/320- 1/500
Soccer 1/1600
Cross Country 1/400-1/800

Racing 1/200 and panning
Swimming 1/250 and panning

Matt

see

Canon PowerShot S95

03/14/2010 01:25:01 PM · #19

I put this on watch. Lots of good info here. Thank 'You' Matt

zxaar

03/14/2010 07:41:37 PM · #20

Originally posted by coryboehne:

.. And besides, 'you''ve got 'to' be kidding, suggesting a d90 'to' compete with a 1D Mk IV? Really I can see a ton of reasons the 1D is worth the money, I couldn't possibly justify a move 'to' a d90 just for slightly better high ISO noise performance....

:)

-Cheers :)

camera is much more than sensor, but as far as sensor go dxomark do put them close, here are comparison based on dxomark.

//farm3.static.flickr.com/2780/4433838304_c12a2a19d5_o.jpg

SNR

//farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4433063471_5bf6f15a52_o.jpg

DR
//farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4433838280_b077d084b8_o.jpg

i do understand shooting 'sports' is much more than sensor. But for noise d90 is not bad if not the best. (i mean not bad as 'you' might think).

Message edited by author 2010-03-14 20:07:02.

03/14/2010 07:43:28 PM · #21

OK guys, if 'you' 'want' 'to' discuss cameras please do it somewhere else. I'm trying 'to' start and have a thread containing information on 'sports' shooting not related 'to' gear. Please be respectful or I'll stop and lock the thread and won't take my time 'to' offer help.

Matt

I ask that 'you' remove the discussion about cameras in your responses as well.

Message edited by author 2010-03-14 19:45:40.

zxaar

03/14/2010 08:07:54 PM · #22

Originally posted by MattO:

sorry for that, continue. No more post from me about cameras.

03/14/2010 09:05:53 PM · #23

Light cycling is a phenom that the human eye can not detect. However shooting at faster shutter speed then 1/60th(the cycle of electricity here in the US) 'you' will be able 'to' see it in your photos. Here is a burst of 5 photos that show it. These are shot in Manual mode 'so' nothing changes in my setting. However notice the colors, brightness and different color temps. 'So' not only are 'you' battling timing, af struggles, people getting in front on 'you', but lights that are continually fighting against 'you'. 1 of these 5 photos is usable,(actually ran in the paper) 'so' yes 'sports' are tough. These are in one of my worst gyms for cycling and lighting. 8000ISO F2.8 and 1/500.

Matt

Edit 'to' add these shots are all Straight out of camera, with no adjustments 'to' them. Middle photo ran in this past weeks paper.

Message edited by author 2010-03-14 21:12:08.