Insects in flight - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

06/01/2004 01:54:34 PM · #1

looking for suggestions. Got bored taking 'dragonfly on a stick' type shots of landed insects. Started trying to shoot dragons in flight instead.

Had limited success, mainly due to wanting a nice sharp dragonfly and a blurred background (so shallow DoF - at least giving good shutterspeed)

Technique suggestions would be very helpful. I was doing manual focus for most of the attempts. Only got one half way sharp (at least the tail is)

Ideas, suggestions, thoughts all welcome. As mentioned, I'd ideally want a shallow DoF, good blurred background type shot too...

rich

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/01/2004 02:02:27 PM · #2

How fast is the lens you are using? I tried tracking dragonflies on a bright day and had some success, but only because I was sitting on the ground near right next to some lilipads using a 50mm f/1.8 lens and basically let them come to me. I don't think I have any of the shots now though, I was just goofing around.

I found using some of my regular lenses in the f/4 and f/5.6 range just too slow for this type of stuff. Made me long for a 70-200 f/2.8.

jab119

06/01/2004 02:34:24 PM · #3

I used my 12mm extension tube, on the cheapy quantaray 28-200mm, the bee was staying pretty close to me.
Manual focus, ISO 400 shutter speed 1/350 @ f8 (i think)

anyway, on this page there are a few more shots of the same bee
BUGS

James

rich

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/01/2004 02:37:31 PM · #4

Originally posted by jab119:

Gordon, this is very hard to do. I tried it a few times with little sucess. But i know you will get some good shots soon. I need to get back out and get some more shots myself as the bugs are more prevelant now than a few months ago.

this little bee turned out ok (not great, but ok)

I used my 12mm extension tube, on the cheapy quantaray 28-200mm, the bee was staying pretty close to me.
Manual focus, ISO 400 shutter speed 1/350 @ f8 (i think)

anyway, on this page there are a few more shots of the same bee
BUGS

James

James, this one of yours is excellent:
Bee

soup

Canon EOS-30D

06/01/2004 02:55:51 PM · #5

you have taken on a difficult task. if your camera offers AI servo mode i would try that ( sports mode on the rebel ), and maybe still manually focus if the AI servo is still capable of being active. lock on when its landed and hold the lock until it takes off again maybe...

it's something i am meaning to try this spring / summer - but have started with humming birds instead - a difficult beast if you don't have the right light. and still difficult when the shutter is fast and the light is bright...

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 VR DG IF-ED

06/01/2004 03:10:45 PM · #6

Here are a couple that I have taken:

//www.pbase.com/image/27390178

//www.pbase.com/image/21391786

//www.pbase.com/image/23537888

//www.pbase.com/image/29204894

Greg

Pedro

Nikon D200

06/01/2004 03:33:37 PM · #7

The only way I think you'll get anything as sharp as I know you'll want (since you're about as particular about sharpness as anyone I know) is to manually focus and then use about a billion shot burst. You'll end up with one or two razor sharp ones if you get enough shots in (The MKII is lookin pretty sweet right about now)

I'd bet the AI Servo will be way too slow for something as precise as you're looking for, save for a few lucky ones.

06/01/2004 03:36:42 PM · #8

AI servo is a waste of time, as is one shot focus for something like this - its too hard to track something like a dragonfly.

I was trying manual focus and predicting the flight patterns for that shot at the start of this - the tail is sharp at least :)

Think I need to stop down a bit from f4 though, my luck needs a bit more depth of field.

In general, I've been finding that with practice my ability to manually focus is getting better though. Think that is all I really need - just some more field experience.

06/01/2004 03:38:02 PM · #9

Originally posted by dadas115:

Here are a couple that I have taken:

//www.pbase.com/image/27390178

//www.pbase.com/image/21391786

//www.pbase.com/image/23537888

//www.pbase.com/image/29204894

Greg

The dragonfly shot you've got there is along the lines of what I'm trying to achieve. I've found bees and butterflies relatively easy to capture on the wing.

Any comments on how you took that dragonfly shot ?

06/01/2004 03:41:19 PM · #10

Originally posted by Pedro:

Think you pretty much described what I've tried so far. AI Servo has proven to be very tough to use any time I've tried it (either due to lack of contrast on the subject I'm tracking, or a sufficiently small subject that it is tough to keep the focus sensor over it. I'm also slightly adverse to having my subject always dead center in the shot (one of the main irritations of the D60 in portrait mode there...)

06/01/2004 03:44:19 PM · #11

Originally posted by soup:

it's something i am meaning to try this spring / summer - but have started with humming birds instead - a difficult beast if you don't have the right light. and still difficult when the shutter is fast and the light is bright...

One thing about butterflies & hummingbirds is that they are actually quite predictable - you'll scare them away at first but they'll keep coming back if you are patient enough - as a result you can just manually focus where they will be and shoot away.

Message edited by author 2004-06-01 15:44:35.

06/01/2004 04:04:44 PM · #12

Butterflies really depend. If they are going to a flower or some food source then they are doable as are bees and other insects. Butterflies that are just flying around are extremely difficult. As far as the dragonfly shot is concerned, you just have to keep practicing. I got a lot of nice shots of them that day. What I have found that helps is if you can find them flying at fairly close range with the background mess far away. This makes the Ai-Servo tracking a lot more reliable so the only tough part is locking on and keeping the dragonfly in the frame. Windy days are also good as they often fly against the wind and it really slows them down. When they decide to fly with the wind they are like bullets though.

Greg

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by dadas115:
Here are a couple that I have taken:

//www.pbase.com/image/27390178

//www.pbase.com/image/21391786

//www.pbase.com/image/23537888

//www.pbase.com/image/29204894

Greg

The dragonfly shot you've got there is along the lines of what I'm trying to achieve. I've found bees and butterflies relatively easy to capture on the wing.

Any comments on how you took that dragonfly shot ?

06/01/2004 04:12:24 PM · #13

Originally posted by dadas115:

I was tracking them as they hovered, but the AF servo on my lens is too slow to be useable (70-200 F4L on a D60)

I was even trying it on people running yesterday and either my handling or its performance is terrible - jumping around a lot, every now and then seeking the whole range of the lens etc. I gave up and had a lot more success manually focusing and tracking the participants.

06/01/2004 04:22:17 PM · #14

That dragonfly shot was taken using the 10D in Ai-Servo mode and the 100-400 IS. If anything the 70-200mm f/4L should do better as I was at 400mm where the max aperture was f/5.6. The D60 is a bit more limited as far as tracking is concerned due to its only having 3 AF points but you should be able to get decent results. My girlfriend and I were out taking pictures of butterflies last weekend and she was using the D60 and 70-200mm f/4L and was able to get some very nice flying butterflies with it, and not just ones that were hovering over flowers. Really, I think the most important thing is practice. When I first started using my 400mm f/2.8L with the 2x TC to track birds in flight I had a heck of a time tracking them, now it is a piece of cake. That didnâ��t happen overnight though, I had to put the lens time in to get it down to the point where I donâ��t have to think about it any more. I think you should be able to get decent results with the D60 and the 70-200mm f/4L, are you using the focus limiter? Also, pay attention to the background and how close your subjects are to it. If there is something nice and contrasty in the background the camera will try to lock onto it so frequently successful tracking depends on what is going on in the background. For instance it is a lot easier to track a bird flying in front of an empty blue sky than it is to track the same bird in front of a forest of tree branches.

Greg

06/01/2004 04:26:59 PM · #15

Originally posted by dadas115:

Butterflies have been pretty easy with it - but the dragonflies need to be closer than the focus limiter range to be big enough in the frame to really be worthwhile - least that was what I was finding, the shot at the start of the thread is with the dragonfly about 1.5m from the lens for example. But you are right - it is all a case of practice, though every time I've tried with AF servo it seems to be terrible and manual focus is proving a whole lot easier.

06/01/2004 04:40:49 PM · #16

I have found the 70-200mm f/4L to be one of the fastest focusing lenses around and have always considered it to be excellent for use in Ai-Servo mode. If you are having trouble tracking with that lens I am not sure what to tell you. I just know that I have found the D60 and 70-200mm f/4L combo to be good for tracking especially for big slow moving subjects like people running. Maybe you should try a longer lens (300mm f/4L or 100-400 IS). The problem wiht a longer lens is that keeping the subject in the frame will be harder but again with practice it should be a piece of cake.

Greg

06/01/2004 04:44:40 PM · #17

I think the problem was the people were fairly evenly lit, with little or no contrast (wet suits, or skin) which didn't seem to give the AF anything to focus on. Also, as I know which direction they are running in, I can obviously do a better job than the AI focus can (which doesn't have the benefit of knowing which direction they are moving in, but is trying to predict it by focusing back and forth) AI Servo worked a bit, particularly on higher contrast things like clothes with logos, but manual was more reliable and quicker.

The dragonfly issue is pretty different, given the speed and realtive size in the frame

Message edited by author 2004-06-01 16:50:13.

06/01/2004 04:59:44 PM · #18

With the 70-200 f/4L you should be able to get the same shot I got. The max mag on the 70-200 f/4L is 0.21x while the 100-400 is only 0.2x max mag. The AF is faster on the 70-200mm f/4 and more light is getting to the AF sensor so it should also be more accurate. The 300mm f/4L IS is probably the ideal lens for this type of shot since it also has very fast AF and the f/4 aperture and offers a max mag of 0.24x. I would just keep trying with your 70-200 f/4, I know it is doable, itâ��s just a matter of doing it ;)

Greg