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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Way to go ACLU!!!
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 05/26/2004 05:04:26 PM · #1
The ACLU is threatening to sue the city of Los Angles to remove a cross from the city's seal. Uh, the name Los Angeles is Spanish for The Angels. It's surrounded by the San Gabriel Mountains, which are named after Saint Gabriel the Archangel. The San Fernando Valley is named after Saint Ferdinand. The population of the whole dang area was a direct result of the Spanish Missions. Not to mention every time I drive through it, I pry to God I get out alive. So, if there's one city on the face of the earth that deserves cross on the city seal, it's Los Angles. The mayor should just tell the ACLU that it's not a cross, it's a "T" for tolerance and be done with it already.
 05/26/2004 07:56:49 PM · #2
Originally posted by thelsel:
The population of the whole dang area was a direct result of the Spanish Missions.


Funny, I always thought it was a result of shady water deals.
 05/26/2004 08:35:26 PM · #3
Originally posted by thelsel:
Not to mention every time I drive through it, I pry to God I get out alive.


LOL no doubt!
 05/26/2004 10:30:26 PM · #4


Message edited by author 2004-05-26 22:39:28.
 05/26/2004 10:39:06 PM · #5
ACLU: The Anti-Christian Liberals Union
ACLU: The American Commies and Liberals Union


05/26/2004 10:55:03 PM · #6
Wouldn't you all be angrier with them if they were INCONSISTENT?

Like it or not, we were incorporated as a SECULAR nation, and the addition of religious symbols to public works/documents is inconsistent with that principle. The fact that the vast majority of the populace is "Christian" is precisely the reason the Founding Fathers put the enti-establishment clause in there ... to protect the minority from the imposition of the religious will of the majority. Official use of the symbology of a particular religion automatically confers "second-class" citizenship among those who do not subscribe to the majority's belief system.
 05/26/2004 11:07:18 PM · #7
Maybe they're worried about a theocracy forming in the US?
Check HERE.
 05/26/2004 11:08:48 PM · #8
There is absolutly no rational argument that I can think of or even 1/3 rational argument that could prove that LA using a cross in their seal is remotly harmfull or presuring in any way...

BTW: Why is the ACLU supporting the Extremist Muslim Fight to put speakers up in public areas to accounce prayers on?z

I say it again, and It's no exageration, the ACLU HATES with a passion christianity. They are the polar opposite of the KKK, only they are worse, because they are seen by many or promoted by many as being a legitimate, trust worthy or non-biased.
 05/26/2004 11:12:53 PM · #9
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Maybe they're worried about a theocracy forming in the US?
Check HERE.


I'm more worried about a large movment by the left to make christianity all but illegal than I am a few more extreme conservatives promoting their believes.

The incline of the anti-christian movement by the left I'm sure matches nicely with the moral decline of this country!

Message edited by author 2004-05-26 23:13:42.
 05/26/2004 11:12:56 PM · #10
Originally posted by Russell2566:
ACLU: The Anti-Christian Liberals Union
ACLU: The American Commies and Liberals Union


Hrm... that must be why the ACLU filed an amicus curiae in support of Rush Limbaugh's contention that his medical records should be private and not subject to subpoena.

-Terry
 05/26/2004 11:13:19 PM · #11
One nation under dog or is that underdog. Hmmm...
 05/26/2004 11:15:42 PM · #12
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by Russell2566:
ACLU: The Anti-Christian Liberals Union
ACLU: The American Commies and Liberals Union


Hrm... that must be why the ACLU filed an amicus curiae in support of Rush Limbaugh's contention that his medical records should be private and not subject to subpoena.

-Terry


Having trouble drawing insid ethe lines today? The ACLU and their anti-christian stance has nothing to do with their goal to protect the privacy of people and their medical records. I'm sure they dispised standing up for Limbaugh, but this time they were able t see the bigger picture and not the small one!
 05/26/2004 11:17:25 PM · #13
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Wouldn't you all be angrier with them if they were INCONSISTENT?

Like it or not, we were incorporated as a SECULAR nation, and the addition of religious symbols to public works/documents is inconsistent with that principle. The fact that the vast majority of the populace is "Christian" is precisely the reason the Founding Fathers put the enti-establishment clause in there ... to protect the minority from the imposition of the religious will of the majority. Official use of the symbology of a particular religion automatically confers "second-class" citizenship among those who do not subscribe to the majority's belief system.


This nation was not in any arguable way incorporated as a secular nation. The entire purpose for the founding of this nation, and the very reason that pretty much ever one of the colonizers coming here was religious. The founding fathers wanted to prevent the government from forcing beliefs on people, but in no way was this nation founded without religious priciples being at the very core.

My controversial statement for the day: When this nation forgets God, then God will forget this nation, and that will be our complete and utter destruction.
 05/26/2004 11:22:02 PM · #14
Why can't it be that the ACLU is trying to preserve seperation of church and state? They are not trying to abolish your right to practice your religion as you see fit.
 05/26/2004 11:24:37 PM · #15
This nation has already forgotten god...or rather, they have another god...the dollar bill.

Do you believe that there should be seperation of church and state?

Originally posted by StevePax:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Wouldn't you all be angrier with them if they were INCONSISTENT?

Like it or not, we were incorporated as a SECULAR nation, and the addition of religious symbols to public works/documents is inconsistent with that principle. The fact that the vast majority of the populace is "Christian" is precisely the reason the Founding Fathers put the enti-establishment clause in there ... to protect the minority from the imposition of the religious will of the majority. Official use of the symbology of a particular religion automatically confers "second-class" citizenship among those who do not subscribe to the majority's belief system.


This nation was not in any arguable way incorporated as a secular nation. The entire purpose for the founding of this nation, and the very reason that pretty much ever one of the colonizers coming here was religious. The founding fathers wanted to prevent the government from forcing beliefs on people, but in no way was this nation founded without religious priciples being at the very core.

My controversial statement for the day: When this nation forgets God, then God will forget this nation, and that will be our complete and utter destruction.
05/26/2004 11:28:08 PM · #16
Originally posted by StevePax:
My controversial statement for the day: When this nation forgets God, then God will forget this nation, and that will be our complete and utter destruction.
'

An interesting statement, but ultimately rhetorical. To an atheist, this statement is pointless. A non-Christian may feel this nation does not really "know" God (or Allah, Buddha, etc) and therefore can't forget. One could argue this statement is, at its core, nothing more than a call to arms to Christians to impose their beliefs upon everyone else.

-Terry
 05/26/2004 11:35:59 PM · #17
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Do you believe that there should be seperation of church and state?


Does the ACLU even have a clue as to what "Seperation of Church and State" really means or what the goal of writing it was...

I'm dead serious when I say you should all be leary of the ACLU and their fight along side Muslims in the United States and their fight against Christianity.

You should all do more reading and pay attention to what they say and release. My guess is just getting to know the ACLU will make you cridge, no matter what your political offiliation!!!


Message edited by author 2004-05-26 23:37:55.
 05/26/2004 11:44:23 PM · #18
Originally posted by Russell2566:
Having trouble drawing insid ethe lines today? The ACLU and their anti-christian stance has nothing to do with their goal to protect the privacy of people and their medical records. I'm sure they dispised standing up for Limbaugh, but this time they were able t see the bigger picture and not the small one!


I don't follow how this or any other action by the ACLU is anti-Christian. Rather, this is about the right of individual Americans to be equally represented by their government. I'll grant that I think this case is a bit extreme, but incorporation of religious icons into our government (the 10 commandments on the steps of a state supreme court, or a cross in a government seal) marginalizes the beliefs of those who do not observe that religion. It sends a message that those people are not represented, or are less represented by that government.

A government's seal usually consists of symbols representing its core values. The observance of a particular religion should not be a core value of ANY government in the United States.

-Terry
 05/26/2004 11:46:45 PM · #19
Let break down the fights of the ACLU:

1) Squelsh the christian movement or christian beliefs
2) Promote msulim faith (which is racist and anti-women) in public places, including public prayer and prayer in schools.
3) Change school corriculimn to "reading", math & masterbation.
4) Get rid of the death penalty
5) Promote abortion
6) Fight to get rid of CRUCIAL parts of the patriot act
7) Campaign against minorities because they are conservative, calling them "not latino enough" or "not a real women".

I could go on for days!!!
 05/26/2004 11:47:53 PM · #20
unfortunately in this day and age, the cross has lost most if not all of its meaning and has become ornamental and stylish, which is terrible imo
 05/26/2004 11:48:00 PM · #21
Originally posted by Russell2566:
I'm dead serious when I say you should all be leary of the ACLU and their fight along side Muslims in the United States and their fight against Christianity.


Are you seriously suggesting that Muslim citizens are less deserving of equal protection under the law than any other citizens, or that Muslim non-citizens, who are here legally, are less entitled to equal protection that non-citizens of other religions?

I can't believe you are arguing in favor or religious discrimination, but I'm not sure what else to make of this. Could you please clarify you post?

Thanks,
Terry
 05/26/2004 11:50:22 PM · #22
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
...incorporation of religious icons into our government ... marginalizes the beliefs of those who do not observe that religion. It sends a message that those people are not represented, or are less represented by that government....


That is such fucking bull shit. I'm Catholic, and seeing marks of other religions don't do this to me or any other person I know of. This is a made up argument and is hog wash.

The cross in the LA crest doesn't offend a single person on earth, aside from maybe Muslims who want to kill or convert anyone who's not Muslim...

Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Are you seriously suggesting that Muslim citizens are less deserving of equal protection under the law than any other citizens

No simply that the ACLU is fight to rid as many things Christian as possible while giving a free pass or fighting for anything Muslim. The ACLU has been fighting for the right for Muslim women to cover their entire face for drivers license, prayer in school, public prayer via permanent speakers (already in several neighborhoods)...

Meanwhile they fight to get a teacher in PA fired for wearing a cross, city names to be changed that are to Christian, crosses to be removed from historical markers, signs or crests, disallowing solo Christian prayer or student Christian led prayer in schoolsâ€Â¦

Need I really go on?


Message edited by author 2004-05-26 23:56:27.
 05/26/2004 11:57:29 PM · #23
russel, while i understand your frustration, what connection does California or any other state have with God, besides the religious belief that everything that is comes from God. all people come from God, including Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, whoever else i missed.

i guess my concern with the ACLU is why do they spend so much time on defending one line in the bill of rights and not in the other, i.e. the right to bear arms. that's why i can't stand the aclu. they say they are for everyone but they obviously are driven by their own personal opinions
05/26/2004 11:57:34 PM · #24
Originally posted by StevePax:
My controversial statement for the day: When this nation forgets God, then God will forget this nation, and that will be our complete and utter destruction.


Interesting point Steve. How do you compare your prediction with the current state of non-Christian countries? Does the U.S. have a special relationship with God, or does this prediction apply equally to all countries of the world?

05/27/2004 12:00:02 AM · #25
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
Originally posted by StevePax:
My controversial statement for the day: When this nation forgets God, then God will forget this nation, and that will be our complete and utter destruction.


Interesting point Steve. How do you compare your prediction with the current state of non-Christian countries? Does the U.S. have a special relationship with God, or does this prediction apply equally to all countries of the world?


substitute the word "nation" with "world", even though God will never forget anything
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