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09/24/2009 04:40:49 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
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5. Cut your losses and move on. Relisted the lens correctly to recoup some of the losses and learn a lesson for future dealing.
That's it, all I have to say, from an Ebay buyer and Seller with 600+ 100% feedback:) |
I agree, except if he refunds the entire cost plus shipping, then the buyer should also consider it a "misunderstanding/mistake" and remove negative feedback, or amend it to indicate that the mistake had been corrected at zero cost to the buyer. |
completely agree! If you correct it, the buyer should rescind. |
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09/24/2009 04:42:12 PM · #77 |
time is money - some say.
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09/24/2009 04:46:18 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
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5. Cut your losses and move on. Relisted the lens correctly to recoup some of the losses and learn a lesson for future dealing.
That's it, all I have to say, from an Ebay buyer and Seller with 600+ 100% feedback:) |
I agree, except if he refunds the entire cost plus shipping, then the buyer should also consider it a "misunderstanding/mistake" and remove negative feedback, or amend it to indicate that the mistake had been corrected at zero cost to the buyer. |
Agreed 100%, I know people here don't like Ebay, but it does work if people give and take a little. In all the time I have been a buyer/seller on Ebay, I have only had one problem item I sold to a person in New Zealand. I gave a full refund and as they wanted the p&p back to me refunded, I told them to keep the 'faulty' item worth about £60. I guess this is why I have 100% feedback:)) |
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09/24/2009 05:50:41 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by SteveJ:
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5. Cut your losses and move on. Relisted the lens correctly to recoup some of the losses and learn a lesson for future dealing.
That's it, all I have to say, from an Ebay buyer and Seller with 600+ 100% feedback:) |
I agree, except if he refunds the entire cost plus shipping, then the buyer should also consider it a "misunderstanding/mistake" and remove negative feedback, or amend it to indicate that the mistake had been corrected at zero cost to the buyer. |
completely agree! If you correct it, the buyer should rescind. |
I disagree, feedback is there for a reason. I sure would want to know he sold a mislabled item weather he makes it right or not. What if he was scamming people but everytime he got caught his feedback got cleared up. |
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09/24/2009 05:53:26 PM · #80 |
Why wouldn't you send him an email before you shipped it out telling him that you don't know the differance in the -s?
If you were American you would be a republican. |
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09/24/2009 06:39:27 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by soup:
time is money - some say. |
yes give him lots n lots of time. Make him rich, he will remember you big time.
/joking of course. |
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09/24/2009 09:24:50 PM · #82 |
I may have misunderstood or been misunderstood (From part of  Simms comment).
I received what I thought was ABC. I always though it was ABC. When I sold it I thought it was ABC and when I was asked the question about whether it was ABC I compared pictures with the lens I had and ABC lenses and BCD lenses. I could not see the difference from my lens and the ABC lens pictured. At the same time, I could not see a difference between the ABC picture and BCD picture either. As far as I know, I sent an ABC item. I DID NOT get the ABC item, realize it was a BCD and decided to sell it as an ABC since I bought it that way.
As for how this ends, I'm not sure. I decided to, again, inform Ebay of the situation and ask how this would normally be handled if both parties disagreed on the terms of the refund. From there, I will continue to go ahead with dealing with this. |
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09/24/2009 09:55:03 PM · #83 |
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09/24/2009 10:09:59 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
I may have misunderstood or been misunderstood (From part of Simms comment).
I received what I thought was ABC. I always though it was ABC. When I sold it I thought it was ABC and when I was asked the question about whether it was ABC I compared pictures with the lens I had and ABC lenses and BCD lenses. I could not see the difference from my lens and the ABC lens pictured. At the same time, I could not see a difference between the ABC picture and BCD picture either. As far as I know, I sent an ABC item. I DID NOT get the ABC item, realize it was a BCD and decided to sell it as an ABC since I bought it that way.
As for how this ends, I'm not sure. I decided to, again, inform Ebay of the situation and ask how this would normally be handled if both parties disagreed on the terms of the refund. From there, I will continue to go ahead with dealing with this. |
I understand that you didn't know the difference. But if there was a difference in price in these items, it was up to you to figure it out. call the company, ask a camera store, etc. If you knew there was ambiguity, and from what you just said, you knew there was ambiguity, it was up to you to clear it up. The buyer was trusting you. |
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09/24/2009 10:19:37 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by heavyj:
I may have misunderstood or been misunderstood (From part of Simms comment).
I received what I thought was ABC. I always though it was ABC. When I sold it I thought it was ABC and when I was asked the question about whether it was ABC I compared pictures with the lens I had and ABC lenses and BCD lenses. I could not see the difference from my lens and the ABC lens pictured. At the same time, I could not see a difference between the ABC picture and BCD picture either. As far as I know, I sent an ABC item. I DID NOT get the ABC item, realize it was a BCD and decided to sell it as an ABC since I bought it that way.
As for how this ends, I'm not sure. I decided to, again, inform Ebay of the situation and ask how this would normally be handled if both parties disagreed on the terms of the refund. From there, I will continue to go ahead with dealing with this. |
I understand that you didn't know the difference. But if there was a difference in price in these items, it was up to you to figure it out. call the company, ask a camera store, etc. If you knew there was ambiguity, and from what you just said, you knew there was ambiguity, it was up to you to clear it up. The buyer was trusting you. |
Ok, wait a minute........ If you DON'T KNOW, then what is there to clear up.... If I bought a red car, then I turn around a sell a red car and the buyer calls me later that day to complain that the color is more salmon then red, then am I the jerk that sold the car under the wrong description... Should I have known I needed to get out my box of crayons and compare colors to get some obscure description.. NO !!! It was red when I bought it, when I drove it around town, I thought it was red and when I sold it, I thought it was red...
I can see if this guy is now saying that he firmly believes that he sold the wrong lens, but he's still saying that he believes he sold this guy exactly what he had listed... So what if he used a stock photo.. eBay throws them at you and practically begs you to use them.. They are smaller in size, of better quality then what the majority of ALL people use so it's a win win situation... I mean, you can't really blame this guy for selling exactly what he thought he had... What more research could he have done???
I sell things on eBay all the time and I would never sell something that I didn't know what it was, but if I didn't know I didn't know, then how the heck can I figure that out.. lol..
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 22:20:02. |
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09/24/2009 10:30:15 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by kandykarml:
Ok, wait a minute........ If you DON'T KNOW, then what is there to clear up.... If I bought a red car, then I turn around a sell a red car and the buyer calls me later that day to complain that the color is more salmon then red, then am I the jerk that sold the car under the wrong description... Should I have known I needed to get out my box of crayons and compare colors to get some obscure description.. NO !!! It was red when I bought it, when I drove it around town, I thought it was red and when I sold it, I thought it was red...
I can see if this guy is now saying that he firmly believes that he sold the wrong lens, but he's still saying that he believes he sold this guy exactly what he had listed... So what if he used a stock photo.. eBay throws them at you and practically begs you to use them.. They are smaller in size, of better quality then what the majority of ALL people use so it's a win win situation... I mean, you can't really blame this guy for selling exactly what he thought he had... What more research could he have done???
I sell things on eBay all the time and I would never sell something that I didn't know what it was, but if I didn't know I didn't know, then how the heck can I figure that out.. lol.. |
No, would be more like him buying what he thought was an 8-cylinder car, selling it as such, being asked if it was really 8, looking under the hood and not being totally sure what he was looking for, so saying, "yeah, looks like the 8-cylinder engine pictures". There's a little more difference than merely cosmetics involved here. And, as already posted, he could have checked out the serial number and been sure, or he could have even asked here.
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 22:31:18. |
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09/24/2009 10:36:12 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by kandykarml:
Ok, wait a minute........ If you DON'T KNOW, then what is there to clear up.... If I bought a red car, then I turn around a sell a red car and the buyer calls me later that day to complain that the color is more salmon then red, then am I the jerk that sold the car under the wrong description... Should I have known I needed to get out my box of crayons and compare colors to get some obscure description.. NO !!! It was red when I bought it, when I drove it around town, I thought it was red and when I sold it, I thought it was red...
I can see if this guy is now saying that he firmly believes that he sold the wrong lens, but he's still saying that he believes he sold this guy exactly what he had listed... So what if he used a stock photo.. eBay throws them at you and practically begs you to use them.. They are smaller in size, of better quality then what the majority of ALL people use so it's a win win situation... I mean, you can't really blame this guy for selling exactly what he thought he had... What more research could he have done???
I sell things on eBay all the time and I would never sell something that I didn't know what it was, but if I didn't know I didn't know, then how the heck can I figure that out.. lol.. |
No, would be more like him buying what he thought was an 8-cylinder car, selling it as such, being asked if it was really 8, looking under the hood and not being totally sure what he was looking for, so saying, "yeah, looks like the 8-cylinder engine pictures". There's a little more difference than merely cosmetics involved here. And, as already posted, he could have checked out the serial number and been sure, or he could have even asked here. |
Hard to do that under the deadline conditions described in the original post ... and if the buyer had questions about the item, why would he bid until those questions had been answered? To me, it seems both parties contributed to the problem. |
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09/24/2009 10:39:14 PM · #88 |
I didn't know about the serial number website until after all this started happening and the buyer sent me the message.
Contacted ebay. Ebay says refund policies are up to the seller.
Contacted Paypal, paypal says buyers are insured up to the transaction amount and only after Paypal has made a decision as to who is at fault, which doesn't guarantee a judgment in the buyers favor.
I asked the buyer if he wants to keep the lens or return it. If he returns it, we do it through Ebay's Resolution Center.
If he wants to file a claim with Paypal, the best case scenario is the same as what is being asked through Ebay, but the worst case would be that he gets nothing.
I see mixed feelings on this here. I've learned my lesson. In the eyes of some, I may be doing the right thing or the wrong.
Next week I will be back complaining about getting an item that was poorly described in the description box and the seller wanting me to pay shipping (Actually, this is happening as we speak with an item I bought from a company on ebay...but I knew I'd be paying the shipping return if I wanted a refund. The unit was broken and I spent 3 months with customer service trying to repair it. In the end, it didn't work. I'm out 70USD...it's a heavy item) |
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09/24/2009 10:56:56 PM · #89 |
| One of the many reasons I don't shop on Ebay :) |
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09/24/2009 11:03:54 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by kandykarml:
Originally posted by vawendy:
Originally posted by heavyj:
I may have misunderstood or been misunderstood (From part of Simms comment).
I received what I thought was ABC. I always though it was ABC. When I sold it I thought it was ABC and when I was asked the question about whether it was ABC I compared pictures with the lens I had and ABC lenses and BCD lenses. I could not see the difference from my lens and the ABC lens pictured. At the same time, I could not see a difference between the ABC picture and BCD picture either. As far as I know, I sent an ABC item. I DID NOT get the ABC item, realize it was a BCD and decided to sell it as an ABC since I bought it that way.
As for how this ends, I'm not sure. I decided to, again, inform Ebay of the situation and ask how this would normally be handled if both parties disagreed on the terms of the refund. From there, I will continue to go ahead with dealing with this. |
I understand that you didn't know the difference. But if there was a difference in price in these items, it was up to you to figure it out. call the company, ask a camera store, etc. If you knew there was ambiguity, and from what you just said, you knew there was ambiguity, it was up to you to clear it up. The buyer was trusting you. |
Ok, wait a minute........ If you DON'T KNOW, then what is there to clear up.... If I bought a red car, then I turn around a sell a red car and the buyer calls me later that day to complain that the color is more salmon then red, then am I the jerk that sold the car under the wrong description... Should I have known I needed to get out my box of crayons and compare colors to get some obscure description.. NO !!! It was red when I bought it, when I drove it around town, I thought it was red and when I sold it, I thought it was red...
I can see if this guy is now saying that he firmly believes that he sold the wrong lens, but he's still saying that he believes he sold this guy exactly what he had listed... So what if he used a stock photo.. eBay throws them at you and practically begs you to use them.. They are smaller in size, of better quality then what the majority of ALL people use so it's a win win situation... I mean, you can't really blame this guy for selling exactly what he thought he had... What more research could he have done???
I sell things on eBay all the time and I would never sell something that I didn't know what it was, but if I didn't know I didn't know, then how the heck can I figure that out.. lol.. |
Originally posted by kandykarml:
.. So what if he used a stock photo.. |
from buyers point of view, it is big thing untill and unless it is mentioned.
Buyer might be duped by believing that he is buying what he is seeing. Or this might have contributed in decision.
This is not so what thing, this is a mistake on part of seller.
For example :
about 50mm f1.2 lenses,
about new lense
//forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=33119613
about old version (difference)
//forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=33122389
difference is very minute, but if i used stock photo of new one to sell old one, i am really duping someone. It may be not known to me, but for buyer it might matter.
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 23:05:03. |
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09/24/2009 11:09:17 PM · #91 |
Hope this all ends equitably. You ebayers know that keeping your feedback rating up is important, even when you have to deal with that occasional idiot.
Last year I sold a vintage Fender Stratocaster on ebay; I had used this guitar professionally for 15 years and it was already VERY well used (i.e. covered with nicks, scratches and with very worn and cracked paint) and I described it accurately with a 1/2 dozen photos. The buyer still complained that I didn't describe 2 little nicks on the back! Good luck, it sounds like you are doing your best to resolve this situation. |
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09/24/2009 11:56:12 PM · #92 |
Originally posted by fldave:
Hope this all ends equitably. You ebayers know that keeping your feedback rating up is important, even when you have to deal with that occasional idiot............ |
I am not sure the situation presented in this thread involves idiocy, certainly not from the guy that bought the lens. You may invoke carelessness on either side, perhaps stubbornness on the seller side but not idiocy.
The OP clearly stated that the seller was never sure that his lens was an AI-S, he thought it was but only because the guy that sold him the lens told him so, not because he had tested its functionality as an AI-S or checked the serial number, etc. therefore, he should have never listed the lens as an AI-S unless he made it clear that he thought is was but was not sure. The analogy of the red vs. salmon automobile is not relevant as color is a subjective attribute while AI vs. AI-S is objective.
The answer to the opening question: 'Did I scam someone on Ebay?' is clearly YES, you did, may be not intentionally, but that is the way any buyer will see it, and any impartial observer too, in fact, it seems to me that you see it that way also, except it may appear that you are looking for excuses (and validation of them by fellow DPC members) to minimize your guilt (or minimize your financial loss?)
Will the buyer scam you by returning a different lens? probably not, naturally you can't be sure but you must give him the benefit of the doubt just as he did when he bought your lens before you answered his question. How difficult would have been to answer his question with a simple and short 'I am not sure it is an AI-S, I was told it was by the guy that sold it to me, it looks like one to me by looking at the picture but that is my only way of telling'. If you had done that he probably would have not bought your lens.
So, my opinion is that you should offer a full refund of his money upon receiving the lens; hopefully it will be the same lens you shipped, but, since you were so careless as to not even identify your lens by reliable means, you may never know. I think you should also refund the shipping cost both ways, unless you stated in the listing that the shipping for any returns would be at the buyer's expense, and, if he HAD TO incur any other expense in order to complete the transaction (and can prove it with documents) you should refund that too.
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09/25/2009 12:07:30 AM · #93 |
Originally posted by senor_kasper:
How difficult would have been to answer his question with a simple and short 'I am not sure it is an AI-S, I was told it was by the guy that sold it to me, it looks like one to me by looking at the picture but that is my only way of telling'. If you had done that he probably would have not bought your lens. |
From the original post (emphasis added):
Originally posted by heavyj:
So I bought a lens that was advertised as a Nikon 28mm f2/8 Ai-s.
A few months later, I no longer needed it and put it up with the same description and used a stock image....
A potential bidder asked if this was Ai-s or Ai (And to be honest I wasn't sure what the difference was)
I couldn't answer the question before the bidding was over and the buyer made a bid and won anyways. |
If the buyer truly had a question about the item (seemingly posed at the last minute), what business did he have in placing the bid before receiving an answer? The buyer knew already that there was some question about the item's exact specifications -- placing the bid is what I'd call prima facie evidence of the buyer's willingness to purchase the item regardless of the answer to the question. To assign all blame to the seller is ridiculous. The smell of a scam on the part of the buyer seems to be increasing odoriferously ...
Message edited by author 2009-09-25 00:12:36. |
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09/25/2009 01:03:11 AM · #94 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
From the original post (emphasis added):
Originally posted by heavyj:
So I bought a lens that was advertised as a Nikon 28mm f2/8 Ai-s.
A few months later, I no longer needed it and put it up with the same description and used a stock image....
A potential bidder asked if this was Ai-s or Ai (And to be honest I wasn't sure what the difference was)
I couldn't answer the question before the bidding was over and the buyer made a bid and won anyways. |
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You may have not noticed that he said "I couldn't answer the question before the bidding was over" and not "I didn't see the question until the bidding was over", that it why I questioned his reason for not giving a short but direct and truthful answer, which would have taken him a few seconds to do.
Originally posted by GeneralE:
......The smell of a scam on the part of the buyer seems to be increasing odoriferously ... |
You can't be serious.
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09/25/2009 03:06:39 AM · #95 |
| The seller gave a description of a Ai-s. The seller used a stock image of an Ai-s, not a image of the actual product. The seller couldn't answer the buyers question in a timely manner if at all. If any thing it appears the seller scammed the buyer with faults advertisement and now he can't make it right when it appears the sale wasn't legit. If any thing it appears a scam by the seller. I'm sure it wasn't intentional and appears he was scammed himself. Why should the buyer pay for it. He trusted the feed back of the seller and assumed everything was legit as advertised. If I was the buyer and we couldn't come to terms, we would be in small claims court. And I'd do everything I could to damage his feed back at EBay. Yes I'm being kinda harsh, nothing personal to heavjy, but this is what I'm getting out of this thread. So my answer to the OP's question is YES. I really hope you guys can settle this fairly, even if it heavjy has to eat shipping & other costs to make it right. |
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09/25/2009 03:22:43 AM · #96 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Hard to do that under the deadline conditions described in the original post ... and if the buyer had questions about the item, why would he bid until those questions had been answered? To me, it seems both parties contributed to the problem. |
As I mentioned earlier - you all know whats it like when you are bidding on something you have your heart set on. It may of been a question because the guy couldnt believe his luck that THE item he really wanted was up for sale. He didnt get an answer and decided that the sellers feedback was 100% so thought "he must be a decent enough fellow" - I repeat from earlier, it is impractical to email every seller to ask if the thing they described and are showing a photo for is the thing they are actually selling. here it wasnt. end of.
I really cant believe this is still being discussed - well I can, but its a shame that the seller just cannot accept fault and reimburse the buyer for all lost monies. I know if I was the buyer I would be really pissed off by now.
I say to  heavyj do the decent thing, the RIGHT thing and refund the guy so he isn't out of pocket.
Message edited by author 2009-09-25 03:24:00. |
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09/25/2009 03:38:29 AM · #97 |
senor_kasper I could answer the question NOT because I was doing research to answer the question before bidding was over but because bidding had ENDED by the time I came home and saw that there was also a question asked about the item.
Before putting the item up, I WAS sure it was Ai-s. I had no reason to think I was scammed the first time around. It was when the buyer received the lens that it became Ai. Had I been asked the question earlier in the week I would have said it was an Ai-s from what I could find on Ken Rockwells site matching photo to lens. I never looked at the serial number or took a picture of it. I didn't know I had to. The lens was in prime condition and so instead of taking photos to show that their were blemishes I stated in the description box that OPTICS were PERFECT with very minimal wear on the body. With previous sales, I have used stock photos. When someone asks for a picture of the item or of the item being used I post it on my website for them to see.
I'm not looking for DPC members to validate my way of handling the situation. I'm looking for objective views on the situation. If I asked my wife "Is this my fault." She'd probably say "Buyer beware." and if the situation were reversed, so would her opinion. Here, nobody knows me very well and I can get opinions from all points of view.
Small claims court would not work. I live in Japan, he lives in Canada. Is he going to go through the process of claims court for a total of 70USD? Actually, his home address is about a 20 minute drive from my families home. He could, instead of shipping it to Japan, ship it to my families house (Or drop it off). I haven't mentioned this yet because I'm not sure how Ebay rules would apply. |
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09/25/2009 04:18:55 AM · #98 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
Before putting the item up, I WAS sure it was Ai-s. I had no reason to think I was scammed the first time around. |
i do not think scammed is correct word here. (English is poor language when it comes to vocabulary).
You were not scammed , you did not care what it was. It was only when you sold you found out the difference.
Scammed is when you buy thinking what you are buying and it does not turn out to be true. For example buyer bought thinking it something , that it was not.
Even here scammed is heavy word(and should not be used, but i am short on suitable word here), because you did not do it intentionally, it happened.
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09/25/2009 06:05:45 AM · #99 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
senor_kasper I could answer the question NOT because I was doing research to answer the question before bidding was over but because bidding had ENDED by the time I came home and saw that there was also a question asked about the item.
Before putting the item up, I WAS sure it was Ai-s. I had no reason to think I was scammed the first time around. It was when the buyer received the lens that it became Ai. Had I been asked the question earlier in the week I would have said it was an Ai-s from what I could find on Ken Rockwells site matching photo to lens. I never looked at the serial number or took a picture of it. I didn't know I had to. The lens was in prime condition and so instead of taking photos to show that their were blemishes I stated in the description box that OPTICS were PERFECT with very minimal wear on the body. With previous sales, I have used stock photos. When someone asks for a picture of the item or of the item being used I post it on my website for them to see.
I'm not looking for DPC members to validate my way of handling the situation. I'm looking for objective views on the situation. If I asked my wife "Is this my fault." She'd probably say "Buyer beware." and if the situation were reversed, so would her opinion. Here, nobody knows me very well and I can get opinions from all points of view.
Small claims court would not work. I live in Japan, he lives in Canada. Is he going to go through the process of claims court for a total of 70USD? Actually, his home address is about a 20 minute drive from my families home. He could, instead of shipping it to Japan, ship it to my families house (Or drop it off). I haven't mentioned this yet because I'm not sure how Ebay rules would apply. |
Ok, I don't buy things on ebay, so this might be a stupid question.
If he had a question, trusted you in the end and bought it anyway, why didn't you resolve it before you shipped the lens? If you didn't have time before the bidding ended, why couldn't this have been settled before the lens was shipped? Aren't you still able to answer his question at that point? Then, if he didn't want to take the chance with the "I don't know", the refund could have been settled then without all the extra expenses. You looked, and yet you couldn't find the differences between the lenses. Why not ask on here? Call the company, or ask a store? There was still that opportunity to fix it, and it wasn't taken. That's why I think you're at fault. |
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09/25/2009 09:54:15 AM · #100 |
| To answer the original question. No, you are not a scammer. That requires intent. But it appears your going to be a thief. buyer beware? lol more like buyer get screwed. |
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