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09/23/2009 03:56:57 PM · #26 |
| I would think that if you have a question in your mind over what it is you shouldn't bid. Obviously its something the guy wasn't sure about, if he thought to question it, even after it was written write in the title. |
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09/23/2009 03:58:55 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by AJSullivan:
I would think that if you have a question in your mind over what it is you shouldn't bid. Obviously its something the guy wasn't sure about, if he thought to question it, even after it was written write in the title. |
That sounds like a good plan on moral grounds - I agree. However, the actual legal rules of eBay may say differently... ??? |
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09/23/2009 04:08:55 PM · #28 |
| honestly, I sympathize with both sides ... no one wants to be scammed ... but I really think that it's the responsibility of the buyer to make sure that the item is exactly what they're looking for ... if they don't hear from the seller before it ends there's always another item that comes along ... |
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09/23/2009 04:09:44 PM · #29 |
| well just based off of what the OP said, sounds like Ebay told OP he/she doesn't have to refund the money or anything, so im guessing they are in the clear? Who knows. |
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09/23/2009 04:33:53 PM · #30 |
For some strange reason this thread seems to be stuck in my head.
I can understand your moral dilemma as I too have had a similar situation where I made an error not unlike yours. And not unlike you, it really bugged me because I consider myself honest to a fault.
Look at this. Is the dollar value of the two different types of lenses quite significant? If so, send him a refund for the difference in value and call it quits.
You do run the risk of getting a bad product back and that said, call the local camera shop in the buyer's area and see if they will ship on his behalf for a fee. They can determine whether the lens is the same quality as when you shipped and if not, they may save you a whole bunch of grief.
If the guy is being a turd for the sake of being a turd, place him on ignore and move forward.
As it stands, he may be leveraging your moral standards for the wrong reason. Unfortunately, there is no way to know. The trust is already gone on both sides.
Hope it works out. |
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09/23/2009 04:57:42 PM · #31 |
You made a booboo, deal with it. Send the guy a refund, explain again that you used a stock picture and it was simply a case of misunderstanding (putting it lightly).
You've already taken the guys money for a wrongly advertised product so what else do you want?
Also, if you're going to use a stock photo, it's prudent (and professional) to mention that it is a stock photo and the one for auction is different. I don't know why you didn't do that in the first place.
Yes, you can blame the buyer for bidding without all the facts, but I think you led him up the garden path a little bit and can understand his frustration. |
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09/23/2009 05:51:18 PM · #32 |
Did you ship this from Japan? To where was it shipped?
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09/23/2009 06:52:37 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Tez:
You made a booboo, deal with it. Send the guy a refund, explain again that you used a stock picture and it was simply a case of misunderstanding (putting it lightly).
You've already taken the guys money for a wrongly advertised product so what else do you want?
Also, if you're going to use a stock photo, it's prudent (and professional) to mention that it is a stock photo and the one for auction is different. I don't know why you didn't do that in the first place.
Yes, you can blame the buyer for bidding without all the facts, but I think you led him up the garden path a little bit and can understand his frustration. |
I guess I couldn't disagree with this anymore... No offense Tez, but let me give you a perfect example of why.... Not too long ago I bought what I thought was a CD full of digital backgrounds.... Company was EZ Backgrounds.. I've seen them advertised and I liked the quality, so I used the buy it now option and it took me to this funky website with all of these additional instructions... What I failed to realize is that my $20 wasn't buying a CD of backgrounds, it was buying the right to access their website for ONE FULL WEEK and download as many backgrounds as I could...
Now, don't think I didn't go back to that eBay page and look through it again & again to see where I was scammed, but geez, down there at the very bottom below what was a mile long page was the tiniest writing saying that this was for a weeks access to their website.. So, I guess I could have complained that their entire page misled me into believing that I was buying the actual digital backgrounds, but quite frankly, I should have done my homework...
It also sounds to me like the OP still isn't sure he sold this guy the wrong lens.. He certainly thought he bought what he was selling and only questioned it when the buyer contacted him to tell him so... I don't think anyone made a booboo here except the buyer.. No one takes responsibility for their own actions.. I still go back to the fact that eBay asks you before you hit that confirm button if you are positive you want to buy this item and you have to say yes, so my feeling is the buyer is the one who should learn the lesson...
That's just me and I have over 300 feedback all positive... I've been buying and selling on eBay on a regular basis for over 5 years now... Sometimes you don't do anything wrong and a buyer can find something to be unhappy about.. |
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09/23/2009 07:16:14 PM · #34 |
| Buyer beware applies in this case. I'd offer to make it right with the buyer but wouldn't refund a penny until the lens is returned. |
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09/23/2009 08:31:45 PM · #35 |
Although it is ultimately the responsibility of the buyer to ask questions and be informed, the seller should certainly know what it is he/she is selling. I buy and sell signed / limited edition books on ebay and never use the stock photos. It's fine if you are selling a 99 cent paperback, but I show the actual product being auctioned.
Didn't see an answer for your feedback question yet, but if the buyer leaves negative feedback, it cannot be changed; you can only respond to it. He should not have bid if there was a question, but if you mislead him, you also are in the wrong. |
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09/23/2009 08:37:18 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by fldave:
Although it is ultimately the responsibility of the buyer to ask questions and be informed, the seller should certainly know what it is he/she is selling. I buy and sell signed / limited edition books on ebay and never use the stock photos. It's fine if you are selling a 99 cent paperback, but I show the actual product being auctioned.
Didn't see an answer for your feedback question yet, but if the buyer leaves negative feedback, it cannot be changed; you can only respond to it. He should not have bid if there was a question, but if you mislead him, you also are in the wrong. |
That's not true... as a seller, you can submit a request to your buyer who's left you negative feedback to change that feedback... It's a system in place for when situations get resolved... I've only left negative feedback one time for a seller who never sent me the product and she sent me this request... I refused to complete it since she again, never sent me the items... Her reasoning was, once I change my feedback to positive, then she will send me the items.. Uhh, no thanks... So, it can be done... It just has to be done within a time frame.. I believe it's 60 days from the time of sale.. |
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09/23/2009 09:00:24 PM · #37 |
Thanks Kristin, I stand corrected, but as you stated you must request this removal and have it approved:
Per ebay: eBay may remove Feedback ratings and/or comments that meet the guidelines outlined below. Feedback ratings and comments may be removed in the following instances:
*There is a violation of the Feedback Abuse policy.
*A member is unable to form a legally binding contract at the time the item ended or Feedback was left.
*A member provided eBay with an email address that is invalid and could not be contacted at the time of the transaction.
*A member mistakenly leaves negative or neutral Feedback intended for another member, informs eBay of the error, and has placed the same Feedback for the correct member.
*If a member is suspended by eBay, negative or neutral Feedback left by that member is removed. If a member is suspended within 90 days of registration, all Feedback is removed.
*eBay is provided with a valid court order requesting Feedback Removal.
*A buyer fails to respond to a reminder about an unpaid item.
*When the buyer's communication within the Resolution Center undermines the purpose of the unpaid item process and the eBay Feedback system.
Unless the buyer leaves negative feedback in a vindictive manner, it may be permanent.
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09/23/2009 09:16:09 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by fldave:
Thanks Kristin, I stand corrected, but as you stated you must request this removal and have it approved:
Per ebay: eBay may remove Feedback ratings and/or comments that meet the guidelines outlined below. Feedback ratings and comments may be removed in the following instances:
*There is a violation of the Feedback Abuse policy.
*A member is unable to form a legally binding contract at the time the item ended or Feedback was left.
*A member provided eBay with an email address that is invalid and could not be contacted at the time of the transaction.
*A member mistakenly leaves negative or neutral Feedback intended for another member, informs eBay of the error, and has placed the same Feedback for the correct member.
*If a member is suspended by eBay, negative or neutral Feedback left by that member is removed. If a member is suspended within 90 days of registration, all Feedback is removed.
*eBay is provided with a valid court order requesting Feedback Removal.
*A buyer fails to respond to a reminder about an unpaid item.
*When the buyer's communication within the Resolution Center undermines the purpose of the unpaid item process and the eBay Feedback system.
Unless the buyer leaves negative feedback in a vindictive manner, it may be permanent. |
You can get a court order to have negative feedback removed? Holy cow... I guess some folks take eBay a lot more seriously than I do!
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09/23/2009 09:38:07 PM · #39 |
Hopefully all will work out for the both of you. If both are legit people you guys should come to some kind of agreement. I've never sold or bought from EBay. What really troubles me is the use of a stock image on a used item. Even though it's OK to do so. If it was brand new item I possibly could see using a stock image. I personally would want to see exactly what I was buying. Ebay scares the hell out of me....Lol. Heavyj has been around a while and appears to be a stand up guy and I wish him luck. (thanks for posting this, I learned something very valuable).
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09/23/2009 10:24:43 PM · #40 |
Man since you are in osaka, i got to be careful. :-D
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09/23/2009 10:24:43 PM · #41 |
Maybe the buyer thought he was buying a lens with image stabilization, a Canon thing but people are easily "Canfused" about this sort of thing.
I have photos of all of my gear, from 3 angles, with serial numbers in at least one shot of each piece, in a file in my computer, and on a CD. It's quick and easy with a P&S using the Text or Macro settings to get the shots and have the record in case of theft or loss. Camera gear is expensive, and it just makes sense.
In any case, I hope that you get it sorted out to everyone's satisfaction soon.
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09/24/2009 06:33:53 AM · #42 |
I contacted ebay support and asked them to advise me on the situation.
They said they were happy that I was trying to resolve the issue. They said that ebay has no policy in place that forces the seller to give refunds etc. They suggested I try to resolve the situation amicably but that if I was concerned the buyer might send back a different lens or that it comes back broken that I don't. I asked the buyer to send a picture of the lens I sent him along with a picture showing the serial number (He thinks I have it written down). I offered to give him a refund once the item arrives back in Japan (Where I live) and I make sure the item is still in working condition. The situation would HAVE to be solved through ebay's resolution center so that no negative feedback would be given.
I also stated that if he wants he could keep the lens as is and sell it on ebay to avoid shipping fees back to Japan, then that's fine, but to keep in mind it was an honest mistake (If in fact the lens is Ai and not Ai-s) and that there was no intention of being misleading. I would leave the decision entirely up to him. His feedback is 100 percent but with only 6 transactions in 4 years. Not much to go on. I don't want to say "You shouldn't have bid on something you weren't sure about entirely." I have had other stuff up where people allow the bidding to end and then if it doesn't have a winner they ask me the question they have about the item and request a time I put it back up with a BUY ME NOW option for X amount of money.
I was sure I was selling an Ai-s. Going back to pictures of Ai-s lenses and Ai lenses, it's hard to see where I might have gone wrong (After the question was asked). I won't know until the lens is back in Japan (If that's what he chooses to do.) I figure I would give him a few days to answer (He might already have it up on ebay, I don't know) or maybe another site. |
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09/24/2009 07:04:33 AM · #43 |
I guess ultimately, you have to decide whether your own feelings about this issue make you feel that you can lose the money/lens to keep your integrity.
If you do, refund him the money, tell him to send it back, and hope for the best.
If you feel that it's much ado about nothing, move on.
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09/24/2009 01:50:26 PM · #44 |
AND...his answer to me.
I assume you got my email earlier with lens picture and were able to identify it. I bid on the item that was wrongly labelled on your part, and incurred the shipping cost, brokerage fee ($49) and now you expect me to pay shipment cost to get it back to Japan. This in my opinion would be correct if there was something wrong with the lens and I wanted refund. My point is that I was misled (whether deliberately or not doesn?t matter)and bet on the item under impression it was AI-S lens which I truly desired. I was not interested in AI lens but consequently purchased something I didn?t need. I was really disappointed and somewhat deceived. What you propose is simply unacceptable and irresponsible. I would expect as minimum to get reimbursed for the lens, shipping cost both ways plus brokerage fee. |
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09/24/2009 01:53:57 PM · #45 |
| brokerage fee? What's that? |
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09/24/2009 01:54:25 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by heavyj:
AND...his answer to me.
I assume you got my email earlier with lens picture and were able to identify it. I bid on the item that was wrongly labelled on your part, and incurred the shipping cost, brokerage fee ($49) and now you expect me to pay shipment cost to get it back to Japan. This in my opinion would be correct if there was something wrong with the lens and I wanted refund. My point is that I was misled (whether deliberately or not doesn?t matter)and bet on the item under impression it was AI-S lens which I truly desired. I was not interested in AI lens but consequently purchased something I didn?t need. I was really disappointed and somewhat deceived. What you propose is simply unacceptable and irresponsible. I would expect as minimum to get reimbursed for the lens, shipping cost both ways plus brokerage fee. |
Sorry, but sounds fair enough to me..
I think you should all put yourselves in the buyers shoes - say you are bidding on a Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS, but when you get the lens it is the non-IS version.. The guy who sold it says - Sorry, honest mistake - then says you can ship it back to him and get a refund but only if you pay the shipping - so then you have no product, are $$$ on the shipping fee and have to look for another lens.. and you all know what its like when you order a lens or whatever, you cant wait for it to arrive.. I know I would be pissed with this situation.
Message edited by author 2009-09-24 13:56:41. |
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09/24/2009 01:55:30 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by heavyj:
AND...his answer to me.
I assume you got my email earlier with lens picture and were able to identify it. I bid on the item that was wrongly labelled on your part, and incurred the shipping cost, brokerage fee ($49) and now you expect me to pay shipment cost to get it back to Japan. This in my opinion would be correct if there was something wrong with the lens and I wanted refund. My point is that I was misled (whether deliberately or not doesn?t matter)and bet on the item under impression it was AI-S lens which I truly desired. I was not interested in AI lens but consequently purchased something I didn?t need. I was really disappointed and somewhat deceived. What you propose is simply unacceptable and irresponsible. I would expect as minimum to get reimbursed for the lens, shipping cost both ways plus brokerage fee. |
Sorry, but sounds fair enough to me..
I think you should all put yourselves in the buyers shoes - say you are bidding on a Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS, but when you get the lens it is the non-IS version.. The guy who sold it says - Sorry, honest mistake - then says you can ship it back to him and get a refund - you are out of pocket on the shipping.. I know I would be pissed. |
The other side, though, is that if I had emailed the buyer asking him if it was the IS version, for sure, and he hadn't responded to me at the end of the auction, I wouldn't have bidded in the first place. :( |
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09/24/2009 01:58:26 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by heavyj:
AND...his answer to me.
I assume you got my email earlier with lens picture and were able to identify it. I bid on the item that was wrongly labelled on your part, and incurred the shipping cost, brokerage fee ($49) and now you expect me to pay shipment cost to get it back to Japan. This in my opinion would be correct if there was something wrong with the lens and I wanted refund. My point is that I was misled (whether deliberately or not doesn?t matter)and bet on the item under impression it was AI-S lens which I truly desired. I was not interested in AI lens but consequently purchased something I didn?t need. I was really disappointed and somewhat deceived. What you propose is simply unacceptable and irresponsible. I would expect as minimum to get reimbursed for the lens, shipping cost both ways plus brokerage fee. |
Sorry, but sounds fair enough to me..
I think you should all put yourselves in the buyers shoes - say you are bidding on a Canon 70-200 F2.8L IS, but when you get the lens it is the non-IS version.. The guy who sold it says - Sorry, honest mistake - then says you can ship it back to him and get a refund - you are out of pocket on the shipping.. I know I would be pissed. |
The other side, though, is that if I had emailed the buyer asking him if it was the IS version, for sure, and he hadn't responded to me at the end of the auction, I wouldn't have bidded in the first place. :( |
I would check out the sellers ebay rating - if it was good I would assume the guy was pretty genuine and take the chance.
If this was the other way around and he was the buyer you would all be jumping to his defence telling him his rights. sadly "one of our own" is (quite unintentionally) in the wrong here.. |
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09/24/2009 02:15:48 PM · #49 |
I stand by my previous statements. Dude obviously had a question in his mind about what he was bidding on and wasn't 100%, but didn't wait for an answer. What does he want you to do? Send him money? Or refund the full amount, plus shipping, and then hed mail the lens back? Thats insanity!
Its sounding more like a scam to be honest. |
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09/24/2009 02:17:18 PM · #50 |
| Even after the auction was over it wasn't to late to make sure it was what you said it was. You gotta suck it up. Agree to pay everything, get him the right lens and/or make a deal with him. |
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