DQ for a border? - DPChallenge Forums

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

08/12/2009 01:11:20 AM · #1

Ok I'm going to need an exact definition on this one....

I got DQd for this...

So my question is at what point did my border stop being distinctive?

original

bear in mind that there are plenty of examples of black borders around black images that have been deemed legal

Message edited by author 2009-08-12 01:26:53.

K3Master

Pentax K-3

08/12/2009 01:13:00 AM · #2

I have no answer.

If I could get into the heads of the SC, I'd have it made.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 35-135mm f/3.5-4.5

08/12/2009 01:16:18 AM · #3

Can you show the original for comparison?

C_Steve_G

Apple iPhone 12

08/12/2009 01:22:00 AM · #4

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

...

So my question is at what point did my border stop being distinctive?

... ...

It began at the point you apparently starting increasing canvas size to create background that did not exist in your original capture (unless, of course, it really did).

K3Master

Pentax K-3

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

08/12/2009 01:23:23 AM · #5

Originally posted by C_Steve_G:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:
...

So my question is at what point did my border stop being distinctive?

... ...

It began at the point you apparently starting increasing canvas size to create background that did not exist in your original capture (unless, of course, it really did).

Oh, DUH. I forgot to inquire as to how much of that was actual background and how much was canvas addition. That would make a heck of a lot of sense, wouldn't it? lol.

Yo_Spiff

Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark III

Olympus 12-100mm f/4.0 M.Zuiko ED IS PRO

08/12/2009 01:25:45 AM · #6

Was the large white inside the black rectangle area part of the original composition? I thought it was. If it was part of the original shot, then it should be ok, IMO.

skewsme

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 200mm f/2.8 L II USM Lens

08/12/2009 01:27:53 AM · #7

Originally posted by C_Steve_G:

It began at the point you apparently starting increasing canvas size to create background that did not exist in your original capture (unless, of course, it really did).

in which case dq msg should be 'thou shalt not add canvas' so as not to confoozle everybody.

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Nikon

08/12/2009 01:28:08 AM · #8

Ok I've posted the original

I added a white border around it.

The question is at what point does it stop being a border and at what point does it become adding to the image?

Message edited by author 2009-08-12 01:28:41.

jdannels

Nikon D300s

08/12/2009 01:28:34 AM · #9

Another DQ example. You can see he added black border to the top and bottom equally. But the top of the image was already black, so by adding the top black border it was viewed as adding image area which is a dq-able offense.

08/12/2009 01:34:11 AM · #10

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Ok I've posted the original

I added a white border around it.

The question is at what point does it stop being a border and at what point does it become adding to the image?

Ahhh yup....the large white area between the square area and the thin border is considered adding canvas to alter the composition of the image. That is a DQ. The 2 thin outer borders are allowed. I am not SC though...so you may be better asking for clarification from them as they are the ones who made the decision to DQ.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

08/12/2009 01:37:30 AM · #11

Originally posted by Judi:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:
Ok I've posted the original

I added a white border around it.

The question is at what point does it stop being a border and at what point does it become adding to the image?

Ahhh yup....the large white area between the square area and the thin border is considered adding canvas to alter the composition of the image. That is a DQ. The 2 thin outer borders are allowed. I am not SC though...so you may be better asking for clarification from them as they are the ones who made the decision to DQ.

At what point did the white area stop being a border though?

Message edited by author 2009-08-12 01:38:26.

BeeCee

Nikon D40

08/12/2009 01:40:28 AM · #12

All the white beyond the black boxes is "border"? That's the problem then, because it appears to be part of the original capture, with only the black outer border added. It stopped being a border when it became a main part of the composition and undistinguishable as border.

Message edited by author 2009-08-12 01:41:50.

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

08/12/2009 01:42:35 AM · #13

Originally posted by BeeCee:

So at what point in my steps would you say it stopped being a border?

K3Master

Pentax K-3

08/12/2009 01:45:04 AM · #14

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
All the white beyond the black boxes is "border"? That's the problem then, because it appears to be part of the original capture, with only the black outer border added. It stopped being a border when it became a main part of the composition and undistinguishable as border.

So at what point in my steps would you say it stopped being a border?

For me, it would be the third one. The second one I'd probably still think "yah, that's just a bit of canvas", where the third one I'd have thought "interesting composition he chose".

BeeCee

Nikon D40

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 ED

08/12/2009 01:46:43 AM · #15

IMO, before step 1.

08/12/2009 01:51:06 AM · #16

Originally posted by BeeCee:

IMO, before step 1.

Ok so applying a white border of any size around a predominantly black image is in your opinion illegal?

08/12/2009 01:54:57 AM · #17

Don't get me wrong guys I have no problem with rules I just need them to be a bit more specific,
for example maybe it should say the border should be symmetric around the original capture and/or the colour of the border should be such that it is not the same
as any part of the image in which in comes into contact.

As it stands it's a little vague and relys on opinion rather than fact IMO

Message edited by author 2009-08-12 01:59:00.

08/12/2009 01:56:17 AM · #18

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
IMO, before step 1.

Ok so applying a white border of any size around a predominantly black image is in your opinion illegal?

No...but the way you have used the border in the photos after step 1 lends itself to make the viewers believe it was part of the shot. Whereas if you put a border like in step 2 around a landscape then it would be obvious to the viewer that it is a border...not part of the photo.

MistyMucky

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

08/12/2009 01:56:32 AM · #19

I agree with Sheila. The problem is that the white border is not recognizable as a border by the voter, therefore I would consider it as an increase in canvas size.

C_Steve_G

Apple iPhone 12

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 35-135mm f/3.5-4.5

08/12/2009 01:57:59 AM · #20

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Ok so applying a white border of any size around a predominantly black image is in your opinion illegal?

When the added apparent background defines your composition, then I would have to agree with the application of the rule.

Edited to add truth in advertising clause: I've been DQ'd twice for essentially the same technique. Both times it was decided that addition of stroke for border was an attempt to increase canvas size as an illegal spot editing technique.

Message edited by author 2009-08-12 02:03:14.

08/12/2009 02:00:20 AM · #21

Originally posted by C_Steve_G:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Ok so applying a white border of any size around a predominantly black image is in your opinion illegal?

When the added apparent background defines your composition, then I would have to agree with the application of the rule.

At what point is it apparent?

08/12/2009 02:01:53 AM · #22

Originally posted by Judi:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by BeeCee:
IMO, before step 1.

Ok so applying a white border of any size around a predominantly black image is in your opinion illegal?

No...but the way you have used the border in the photos after step 1 lends itself to make the viewers believe it was part of the shot. Whereas if you put a border like in step 2 around a landscape then it would be obvious to the viewer that it is a border...not part of the photo.

So you can see th eproblem here, if I added 1 pixel around step 1 you would probably consider it to be ok still, so how many pixels would I have to add before it isn't?

MistyMucky

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

08/12/2009 02:04:18 AM · #23

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Originally posted by C_Steve_G:

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

Ok so applying a white border of any size around a predominantly black image is in your opinion illegal?

When the added apparent background defines your composition, then I would have to agree with the application of the rule.

At what point is it apparent?

It would be apparent without the white bands between your black squares. The white bands are the canvas, right? If you add a border the same color, you increase canvas size.

08/12/2009 02:07:51 AM · #24

Originally posted by Lutchenko:

When the border becomes part of the photo and is no longer determined as a separate border!