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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> It's NOT the Camera, it's the person behind it...
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 05/16/2004 01:52:37 AM · #1
Very interesting essay! Have a look...
//www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/digital-to-analog.shtml

Message edited by author 2004-05-16 01:53:27.
 05/16/2004 02:06:33 AM · #2
Excellent article and an argument in favor of my choices in the editing debates here at DPC!
 05/16/2004 02:13:58 AM · #3
Interesting and enlightening essay. Thanks for sharing, Dr.
 05/16/2004 03:25:52 AM · #4
That's why I still carry my 1971 Pentax ES-1 with a broken meter , there's so much satisfaction from knowing you got it right all on your own .
 05/16/2004 03:30:53 AM · #5
Thank you for sharing this most inspiring article.
 05/16/2004 03:39:38 AM · #6
Why would it have any effect on your choices in the editing debates? Do you think that if you take a roll of film to the developers, no editing gets done? Au contraire my friend...negative film has much more of an exposure latitude and can be saved much easier than a digital file can. There is adjustment for exposure, colour etc. that needs to be done with every roll. Experienced darkroom developers routinely use techniques that would be illegal here at DPC under the basic editing rules.

Articles like that piss me off. A camera is just a tool...a K1000 doesn't impart knowledge any more than a 10D does. In fact, I'd argue that by being in the process of taking a photo and developing it yourself in a digital darkroom, you know far more about a photographic process than snapping a roll of film and taking it to the developers. My girlfriend uses a Minolta manual camera and, since eing exposed to my 10D, has learned so much more, so quickly. Who wants to learn by writing down the aperture and shutter speed settings, and then guess what the lab did to the prints after they're done. With digital, you see your screwups instantly. The metadata is there in black and white. The CMOS medium is far less forgiving than negative film, so you must be right. If you really wanna learn how to take some good shots, get a used D30, stick it in manual and take some duct tape and tape over your LCD. Go take a buncha shots and see how they turned out. Read the EXIF data. Go do some more. Don't get Walmart to mess with your film.

The technophobe/luddite photographer will try to convince you that a manual camera is the best, but it ain't.

If you know the relationship between film speed, aperture and shutter speed, you know how to take photos...whether it's with a Leica M6 or a Canon 1D.

Originally posted by TooCool:
Excellent article and an argument in favor of my choices in the editing debates here at DPC!


Message edited by author 2004-05-16 03:44:44.
 05/16/2004 04:49:30 AM · #7
Yes, James, but that is assuming you have a digitial camera which does offer full manual control.

I fully agree digital really speeds up the learning process because of the instant feedback. And I fully agree with the article that one should go through the process of doing everything manual to become aware what you are doing and how you can influence the end result.

I grew up with a full manual Practika 50 mm camera and learned a lot. On the other hand, I still mostly use my zoomlens for framing, very rarely to achieve a certain effect.

The most frustrating with the Practika was that also focus was manual and you lost a lot of shot because the time needed to do this. So I love autofocus. But I still use manual focus for many macro/still life shots and for setting hyperfocual distance in landscape shots.

And I use full automatic exposure mode for fast changing situations which are not critical in creativity (kids parties for example), but I use full manual exposure for most other occasions.

I simply cannot understand how anybody can work with a full auto camera which does not offer that kind of control. I hate the camera making all decisions for me ....and then getting it wrong.
 05/16/2004 06:51:22 AM · #8
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
...
Articles like that piss me off. A camera is just a tool...a K1000 doesn't impart knowledge any more than a 10D does.
Originally posted by TooCool:
Excellent article and an argument in favor of my choices in the editing debates here at DPC!


James, you are agreeing with the essay. He is not against technology, he is just saying that it is NOT the camera but that it is the person behind the camera who makes the shot good.
 05/16/2004 09:43:08 AM · #9
Originally posted by willem:
The most frustrating with the Practika was that also focus was manual and you lost a lot of shot because the time needed to do this. So I love autofocus. But I still use manual focus for many macro/still life shots and for setting hyperfocual distance in landscape shots.

I'm surprised you can succesfully use manual focus with the Sony. I've tried manual focus with my F717, but it's impossible for me to accurately judge the focus from the LCD screen. I think I get it right during the shot, but afterwards it always turns out horribly out of focus. With my old Praktika I never had a problem with the manual focus, apart from the extra time needed for focusing, but then the Sony isn't real fast either.

Originally posted by willem:
I simply cannot understand how anybody can work with a full auto camera which does not offer that kind of control. I hate the camera making all decisions for me ....and then getting it wrong.

Agree, I tend to use the manual exposure settings a lot also. Nice thing of the Sony is that it offers full manual control if you want to.
 05/16/2004 10:01:22 AM · #10
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
Why would it have any effect on your choices in the editing debates? Do you think that if you take a roll of film to the developers, no editing gets done? Au contraire my friend...negative film has much more of an exposure latitude and can be saved much easier than a digital file can. There is adjustment for exposure, colour etc. that needs to be done with every roll. Experienced darkroom developers routinely use techniques that would be illegal here at DPC under the basic editing rules.

Articles like that piss me off. A camera is just a tool...a K1000 doesn't impart knowledge any more than a 10D does. In fact, I'd argue that by being in the process of taking a photo and developing it yourself in a digital darkroom, you know far more about a photographic process than snapping a roll of film and taking it to the developers. My girlfriend uses a Minolta manual camera and, since eing exposed to my 10D, has learned so much more, so quickly. Who wants to learn by writing down the aperture and shutter speed settings, and then guess what the lab did to the prints after they're done. With digital, you see your screwups instantly. The metadata is there in black and white. The CMOS medium is far less forgiving than negative film, so you must be right. If you really wanna learn how to take some good shots, get a used D30, stick it in manual and take some duct tape and tape over your LCD. Go take a buncha shots and see how they turned out. Read the EXIF data. Go do some more. Don't get Walmart to mess with your film.

The technophobe/luddite photographer will try to convince you that a manual camera is the best, but it ain't.

If you know the relationship between film speed, aperture and shutter speed, you know how to take photos...whether it's with a Leica M6 or a Canon 1D.

Originally posted by TooCool:
Excellent article and an argument in favor of my choices in the editing debates here at DPC!


Why is it that every time you mention editing rules in these particular challenges, someone acts as if you personally insulted them? This is a small contest site in the infinitely larger internet on a small rock floating through space. It isn't the entirety of existance.

Now to elaborate. Being a learning site about photography what is so wrong about maximizing the importance of the camera itself. Yes it is just a tool, but if you don't know how to use a hammer you can't build a house can you...
 05/16/2004 10:33:23 AM · #11
If you really want to use film and learn about exposure, don't shoot negative film.

If you use slide film you'll really quickly learn how to expose correctly, or at least see how often you get it wrong - negative film will be getting adjusted and post-processed at the lab - positive film doesn't give you that luxury.
 05/16/2004 10:40:37 AM · #12
Originally posted by nicoledb:
Originally posted by willem:
The most frustrating with the Practika was that also focus was manual and you lost a lot of shot because the time needed to do this. So I love autofocus. But I still use manual focus for many macro/still life shots and for setting hyperfocual distance in landscape shots.

I'm surprised you can succesfully use manual focus with the Sony. I've tried manual focus with my F717, but it's impossible for me to accurately judge the focus from the LCD screen. I think I get it right during the shot, but afterwards it always turns out horribly out of focus. With my old Praktika I never had a problem with the manual focus, apart from the extra time needed for focusing, but then the Sony isn't real fast either.


You can, but I use it only in critical circumstances, or to pre-focus and then avoid the delay of the autofocus.

It is important to remember that the Sony always shows preview with full depth of field of the aperture chosen. So if you set F4 it will show the corresponding DOF, which might make manual focus difficult since there is a slow transition between in-focus and out-of-focus due to the depth of field. And even more so at F8.

For really accurate manual focus you need to set aperture to F2 first, then focus and then select the aperture and speed desired. I often use the portrait scene mode to quickly shift out of manual mode to scene mode, which automatically sets F2, then focus, and then switch back to manual.

But agree, it is difficult to see on a LCD/EVF, but then again it was not easy on my Practika either, with the viewfinder getting really dark, especially on DOF preview.

05/16/2004 11:03:42 AM · #13
Originally posted by willem:

For really accurate manual focus you need to set aperture to F2 first, then focus and then select the aperture and speed desired. I often use the portrait scene mode to quickly shift out of manual mode to scene mode, which automatically sets F2, then focus, and then switch back to manual.

But agree, it is difficult to see on a LCD/EVF, but then again it was not easy on my Practika either, with the viewfinder getting really dark, especially on DOF preview.


Thanks, I'll try that. I learn something new here every day!
 05/16/2004 06:59:08 PM · #14
Originally posted by TooCool:
Excellent article and an argument in favor of my choices in the editing debates here at DPC!


Strangely enough, I think of it as an argument in favour of my choices too - funny how that happens.
 05/16/2004 07:02:26 PM · #15
Personally, I try not to get too caught up in the matter. All I know is that I have acamera, and I want to take pictures, so I go out and I do. Someitmes I find myself getting to involved that I am not taking pictures.
 05/16/2004 09:21:58 PM · #16
Quote:
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im screwed...out of all those the only thing i know is that 400 is a good film speed for everyday pictures...
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