Future of SC & DPC (was: How many SPAM threads tonight?)

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/17/2009 07:06:19 PM · #76

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I think Simms is bringing up some valid points. We know the active SC are overworked. DQ's and validations take a week or even longer at times. That should be a sign that we need some turnover as such work is the lifeblood of the site.

DPC has been built up to be an excellent forum and participation site on the web. If someone comes to get a photography answer about something they often get replies in minutes where other forums may be days. And if we think there is some dysfunction at times you should see some other forums (DPReview comes to mind). BUT, while there is a point where things can fly along on cruise control and everybody is willing to put their $25 into the coffer, that period does come to and end and either more work is required or the site decays(and your value for the $25 is greatly diminished). I believe we are at that tipping point. Either we man up and get the work done to polish things back up or DPC will just fade into oblivion. It's really up to Langdon though. He can ride it to the end and collect $25,000 a year until nobody pays because the site sucks, or he can try to keep this puppy going.

I am fully aware of the delays in DQ's/validations...I have had loads of images called up for validation (sometimes 1 or 2 evry week) and I have noticed the time taken to validate has increased greatly over time. It has been a long time since I had one validated in the 48 hour time period. One took 3 weeks, whilst another was granted validation after many emails to SC, only to be told it was a split decision so they had decided to grant me the benefit of the doubt, but had forgotten to inform me...yeah thanks! And then weeks later I received an email to say that based on other validations similiar to my case they had decided it would be balanced in my favour...go figure!

I am also aware that Langdon is the one that handles new tuts to the site...and right now I am still waiting on a tut approval that I sent in nearly 2 weeks ago. That is a very sad state indeed. Those tuts take time to put together and yet the delay in posting them for everyone to learn from is ridiculous....without even a word from Langdon....!

This argument in this thread has been brought up on many occasions. I honestly believe that this shows the unrest amongst the community over the current state of affairs. I do believe it takes more than just entering challenges to prove a good SC candidate...but there is some incredible members on this site who can bring a lot more to the table then some of the current SC's. I am not going to name names...as it will only bring out the bad in people on both sides....but if any of the SC feel that can't honestly put the work and time needed into the SC, then they should stand down and allow someone to take their place. Someone who can help turn the work over in a quicker timeframe.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/17/2009 07:20:05 PM · #77

Originally posted by muckpond:

it's fine if you feel that way, but you should really think about "passion for photography" as the sole criterion for new SC members. there have been plenty of passionate photographers on the SC that have found the work too mundane for their tastes. gordon kiwiness mk heida ursula

our role here is administrative. we're not arbitrators of taste, like at 1X.

what is it that you really think is wrong with the site? i'm honestly asking. because if it's stuff like wanting larger image sizes or changes of that ilk, your beef is not with the SC.

The Photographers you mention (and I can use that word without a shadow of cynicism as they are all amazing artists) Maybe they just didn't like the way creativity was being stifled, and as passionate photographers decided that DPC was not for them. Maybe they were all too busy in real-life. Who knows? maybe they just, as you said, outgrew the site.. maybe it wasnt moving forward enouhg, maybe they didnt like the way the SC was run - at least they knew they didnt need to be in the SC and just hang on in there regardless.

So what don't I like? I don't like the way creativity is stifled, and it pains me to know that these decisions are made in part by people, who outwardly seem to have no interest in photography anymore. Granted entering challenges should not be a pre-requisite, but showing a certain amount of dedication in that way goes some way to proving your worth and passion for the art that you are currently making decisions about.

I am not saying I talk for everyone (as proved by k10dguy a minute ago) but a lot of people do feel the same way.

Message edited by author 2009-06-17 19:22:01.

K3Master

Pentax K-3

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

06/17/2009 07:31:42 PM · #78

For the record, I'm not saying we should never have a turn-over on SC, just that their membership and inclusion and continued work on the council should never, ever, be determined by a single set of criteria. Especially one that doesn't take into account myriad details and issues.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

06/17/2009 07:46:31 PM · #79

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I think Simms is bringing up some valid points. We know the active SC are overworked. DQ's and validations take a week or even longer at times. That should be a sign that we need some turnover as such work is the lifeblood of the site. ...

... Either we man up and get the work done to polish things back up or DPC will just fade into oblivion. It's really up to Langdon though. He can ride it to the end and collect $25,000 a year until nobody pays because the site sucks, or he can try to keep this puppy going.

If SC is overworked then add more SC members. Yes, if there are a couple of SC members who don't have the heart to do it anymore, certainly they could open up a spot or two.

All of these decisions are not to be made by SC, it's up to Langdon. Personally, I think overall the SC do a darn good job and tossing stones at them seems out of place.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

06/17/2009 07:49:43 PM · #80

Originally posted by Judi:

... I am also aware that Langdon is the one that handles new tuts to the site...and right now I am still waiting on a tut approval that I sent in nearly 2 weeks ago. That is a very sad state indeed. Those tuts take time to put together and yet the delay in posting them for everyone to learn from is ridiculous....without even a word from Langdon....!

Not a beef with SC at all...

If you go into a retail store and service isn't up to par, do you place all of the blame on the store personnel? No - the store manager should shoulder that burden.

glad2badad

Apple iPhone 16 Pro

Lensbaby Sweet 35 Optic

06/17/2009 07:54:07 PM · #81

Originally posted by Simms:

... So what don't I like? I don't like the way creativity is stifled ...

That's the sticking point for you isn't it. Weed out the rest of what you've written and this is what it boils down to.

Creativity is stifled how? By the challenge rules of DPC? What would you do, eliminate all rules period? There have been several attempts (WITH the DPC community input at large) to rewrite and streamline the current rulesets - the rules really can't be watered down much more without just throwing them out. Is that what you want?

Again, this isn't all in the SC's lap IMO. Do you think the rules get rewritten by SC and then changed like that without a final approval from DPChallenge ownership? I don't think that's the case.

muckpond

Nikon D200

Sigma 15mm f/2.8 EX Diagonal Fisheye for Nikon

06/17/2009 08:20:02 PM · #82

Originally posted by Simms:

So what don't I like? I don't like the way creativity is stifled,

this is a valid argument. it just so happens to mirror one of the same arguments i have been making for years. do we have common ground? *gasp*

changes to the rulesets are incredibly difficult to undertake. like i said before, a lot of it is there for a reason. if you think that there aren't people striving for change, go to the rest of the SC and say "muckpond wants to talk about allowing overlays in advanced again" and watch their hair turn white and the veins in their forehead pound.

to that end, i've realized that the side challenges are an excellent way of engaging users without the boundaries of the rulesets and challenge format. i've been striving for years to figure out how to make them a separate-but-equal function of the site, specifically to keep people engaged once they start to feel limited by the rules. if you have thoughts on that, i'm all ears.

Originally posted by Simms:

and it pains me to know that these decisions are made in part by people, who outwardly seem to have no interest in photography anymore.

sometimes the impediments to change are NOT the people you might think they are. you don't have any clue about the inner workings of the SC, and you really should not judge any of us based on what actions we undertake on the front end of the site.

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

06/17/2009 09:44:12 PM · #83

Simms, just to make sure I'm understanding you -- entering challenges here indicates your level of passion for (and knowledge of) photography?

Message edited by author 2009-06-17 21:44:43.

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

06/17/2009 10:07:24 PM · #84

lots of spam lately. time to buy a spam opener

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

06/17/2009 10:10:24 PM · #85

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think Simms is bringing up some valid points. We know the active SC are overworked. DQ's and validations take a week or even longer at times. That should be a sign that we need some turnover as such work is the lifeblood of the site. ...

... Either we man up and get the work done to polish things back up or DPC will just fade into oblivion. It's really up to Langdon though. He can ride it to the end and collect $25,000 a year until nobody pays because the site sucks, or he can try to keep this puppy going.

If SC is overworked then add more SC members. Yes, if there are a couple of SC members who don't have the heart to do it anymore, certainly they could open up a spot or two.

All of these decisions are not to be made by SC, it's up to Langdon. Personally, I think overall the SC do a darn good job and tossing stones at them seems out of place.

bravo!!

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

06/17/2009 10:14:03 PM · #86

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

i'm sure if there's opening, many would volunteer to work for free.

06/17/2009 10:14:08 PM · #87

Originally posted by muckpond:

fwiw, i have moved this thread out of Rant, as i don't think it's actually a pretty productive conversation despite all of the usual threadjackers (lookin' at you, slip and ken).

Assuming you meant that you do think it's productive, you should then also change the title of the thread that seems to have veered far from it's original purpose (or lack thereof) and abandoned by the OP. ;-)

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

06/17/2009 10:16:53 PM · #88

Originally posted by crayon:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think Simms is bringing up some valid points. We know the active SC are overworked. DQ's and validations take a week or even longer at times. That should be a sign that we need some turnover as such work is the lifeblood of the site.

i'm sure if there's opening, many would volunteer to work for free.

We did....and we got knocked back. We weren't good enough!

MattO

Nikon D4

06/17/2009 10:23:01 PM · #89

Originally posted by Judi:

Originally posted by crayon:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think Simms is bringing up some valid points. We know the active SC are overworked. DQ's and validations take a week or even longer at times. That should be a sign that we need some turnover as such work is the lifeblood of the site.

i'm sure if there's opening, many would volunteer to work for free.

We did....and we got knocked back. We weren't good enough!

Yep I volunteered to do it for free as well and was told my services weren't needed at the time.

Matt

crayon

Samsung Galaxy S24 Ultra

06/17/2009 10:28:01 PM · #90

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by Judi:

Originally posted by crayon:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think Simms is bringing up some valid points. We know the active SC are overworked. DQ's and validations take a week or even longer at times. That should be a sign that we need some turnover as such work is the lifeblood of the site.

i'm sure if there's opening, many would volunteer to work for free.

We did....and we got knocked back. We weren't good enough!

Yep I volunteered to do it for free as well and was told my services weren't needed at the time.

Matt

and so we can safely say that the site does not have a problem with manpower.
perhaps what the site needs is work shifts ;) those from Aussie, raise ur hand!

Message edited by author 2009-06-17 22:29:36.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

06/17/2009 10:42:21 PM · #91

Originally posted by crayon:

Originally posted by MattO:

Originally posted by Judi:

Originally posted by crayon:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think Simms is bringing up some valid points. We know the active SC are overworked. DQ's and validations take a week or even longer at times. That should be a sign that we need some turnover as such work is the lifeblood of the site.

i'm sure if there's opening, many would volunteer to work for free.

We did....and we got knocked back. We weren't good enough!

Yep I volunteered to do it for free as well and was told my services weren't needed at the time.

Matt

and so we can safely say that the site does not have a problem with manpower.
perhaps what the site needs is work shifts ;) those from Aussie, raise ur hand!

ME! ME! ME! ME! ME!

MattO

Nikon D4

06/17/2009 11:15:12 PM · #92

Originally posted by crayon:

This was when they were filling vacated seats from SC members who saw it was their time to step away from lack of interest. There was and still is a manpower problem. Also a lack of interest by the owner to make the site grow and move forward.

Matt

bspurgeon

Fujifilm x100

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/18/2009 12:18:11 AM · #93

Someone humor me...other than my current Motion Panning entry what don't you like about the site? I've read the tread, and I get the sense that a few feel the site is stagnant. I would like to hear some ideas other than just new SC. Although I must admit, I'm bothered by the clutter of ancient news on the home page as that itself suggests a lack of interest in the general maintenance of the site.

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

06/18/2009 02:33:33 AM · #94

Originally posted by karmat:

Simms, just to make sure I'm understanding you -- entering challenges here indicates your level of passion for (and knowledge of) photography?

Not at all - taking photos and sharing them on this site would reflect your passion for the craft, especially if you are one of the rulemakers on a site such as this.

Look, I know a lot of you guys are a lot better arguing than me and you all love to get your teeth stuck into a debate. But I am sure you understand what I am saying.

Message edited by author 2009-06-18 02:48:30.

06/18/2009 02:38:49 AM · #95

Originally posted by bspurgeon:

I think muckpond mentioned some things earlier about enhancing side challenge features, DPL, expert editing. There are lots of things people have been asking for, working on, working around, etc. He also mentioned (as did several others) that it is really all up to Langdon.

06/18/2009 02:43:34 AM · #96

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by bspurgeon:
Someone humor me...other than my current Motion Panning entry what don't you like about the site? I've read the tread, and I get the sense that a few feel the site is stagnant. I would like to hear some ideas other than just new SC. Although I must admit, I'm bothered by the clutter of ancient news on the home page as that itself suggests a lack of interest in the general maintenance of the site.

I think muckpond mentioned some things earlier about enhancing side challenge features, DPL, expert editing. There are lots of things people have been asking for, working on, working around, etc. He also mentioned (as did several others) that it is really all up to Langdon.

He is MIA! Right...next challenge....'Where is Langdon?'

06/18/2009 02:46:52 AM · #97

Originally posted by Judi:

He is MIA! Right...next challenge....'Where is Langdon?'

Probably should be Where is Langdon XII

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

06/18/2009 02:48:27 AM · #98

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Judi:
He is MIA! Right...next challenge....'Where is Langdon?'

Probably should be Where is Langdon XII

There is only one problem! Only Langdon sets the challenge...so Langdon has to know where Langdon is for Langdon to set the challenge of Where is Langdon XII

Confused?

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

06/18/2009 02:50:15 AM · #99

I suggest we change nothing.

Finally, a suggestion of mine that will be accepted. Yay!