Noise - DPChallenge Forums

Pentax D-FA* 70-200mm f/2.8 ED DC AW

04/08/2009 02:20:50 PM · #1

I'm definately having problems with noise. My camera is not a DSLR, but its quality is known to be good.
I'm wondering if I'm having trouble while composing the photos, dealing with light and shadows, and hence creating more noise than acceptable at full size.
Could any of you please advise on general techniques to avoid noise?
Should it be something to do with the hardware of the camera? Maybe ask for cleaning the sensor dust or something like that?

Full size here

Full size here

Thanks!

K3Master

Pentax K-3

04/08/2009 02:25:14 PM · #2

I don't see an issue with noise. What I do see, however, is that there is some serious in-camera noise REDUCTION going on that is smoothing your detail out something fierce. Perhaps there's an option to reduce or turn that off?

Dirt_Diver

Nikon D3s

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/08/2009 03:26:42 PM · #3

If you want to see your EXIF data for the top image here it is.

[ Overview ]
File name: C:\Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_780675.jpg
File type: JPEG
File size: 4,722.6Â KB
Creation date: 4/7/2009 10:05
Last modification: 4/8/2009 15:23
Make: Panasonic
Camera: DMC-FZ50
Software: Version 1.0.9
Dimension: 3648 x 2736Â pxÂ (10 MP, 4:3)
Focal length: 7.4Â mmÂ (equiv. 35Â mm)
Aperture: F11
Exposure time: 1/50"
ISO speed rating: 100/21Â°
Program: Aperture Priority
Metering Mode: Pattern
White Balance: Manual
Focus Mode: Auto
Image Stabilizer: Off
Noise Reduction: Â±0 (Standard)
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

[ Image ]
Manufacturer: Panasonic
Image input equipment model: DMC-FZ50
Orientation of image: 0Â° (top/left)
Image resolution in width direction: 72Â dpi
Image resolution in height direction: 72Â dpi
Unit of X and Y resolution: inch
Software: Ver.1.0
File change date and time: 2009-04-07 10:05:10
Y and C positioning: Co-Sited
Exif IFD Pointer: 0x000001A4
PRINT Image Matching: 0x000000D4

[ Camera ]
Exposure time: 1/50"
F number: F11
Exposure program: Aperture priority
ISO speed rating: 100/21Â°
Exif version: Version 2.21
Date and time of original data generation: 2009-04-07 10:05:10
Date and time of digital data generation: 2009-04-07 10:05:10
Meaning of each component: YCbCr
Image compression mode: 4Â bpp
Exposure bias: Â±0Â EV
Maximum lens aperture: 3Â Av (F2.8)
Metering mode: Pattern
Light source: Unknown
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Lens focal length: 7.4Â mm
Manufacturer notes: 0x0000039A
Supported Flashpix version: Version 1.0
Color space: sRGB
Image width: 3648Â px
Image height: 2736Â px
Interoperability IFD Pointer: 0x00001E0C
Sensing method: One-chip color area sensor
File source: Digital Camera
Scene type: A directly photographed image
Custom image processing: Normal process
Exposure mode: Auto exposure
White balance: Manual
Digital zoom ratio: Digital zoom was not used
Focal length in 35 mm film: 35Â mm
Scene capture type: Standard
Gain control: None
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal

Message edited by author 2009-04-08 15:32:30.

Dirt_Diver

Nikon D3s

Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED

04/08/2009 03:32:46 PM · #4

Here is the Exif data for the beach image

[ Overview ]
File name: C:\Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_780680.jpg
File type: JPEG
File size: 4,741.4Â KB
Creation date: 4/7/2009 10:18
Last modification: 4/8/2009 15:31
Make: Panasonic
Camera: DMC-FZ50 <---- There's your problem right there... Change that and it should work better. :)
Software: Version 1.0.9
Dimension: 3648 x 2736Â pxÂ (10 MP, 4:3)
Focal length: 7.4Â mmÂ (equiv. 35Â mm)
Aperture: F11
Exposure time: 1/80"
ISO speed rating: 100/21Â°
Program: Aperture Priority
Metering Mode: Pattern
White Balance: Manual
Focus Mode: Auto
Image Stabilizer: Off
Noise Reduction: Â±0 (Standard)
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode

[ Image ]
Manufacturer: Panasonic
Image input equipment model: DMC-FZ50
Orientation of image: 0Â° (top/left)
Image resolution in width direction: 72Â dpi
Image resolution in height direction: 72Â dpi
Unit of X and Y resolution: inch
Software: Ver.1.0
File change date and time: 2009-04-07 10:18:14
Y and C positioning: Co-Sited
Exif IFD Pointer: 0x000001A4
PRINT Image Matching: 0x000000D4

[ Camera ]
Exposure time: 1/80"
F number: F11
Exposure program: Aperture priority
ISO speed rating: 100/21Â°
Exif version: Version 2.21
Date and time of original data generation: 2009-04-07 10:18:14
Date and time of digital data generation: 2009-04-07 10:18:14
Meaning of each component: YCbCr
Image compression mode: 4Â bpp
Exposure bias: Â±0Â EV
Maximum lens aperture: 3Â Av (F2.8)
Metering mode: Pattern
Light source: Unknown
Flash: Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Lens focal length: 7.4Â mm
Manufacturer notes: 0x0000039A
Supported Flashpix version: Version 1.0
Color space: sRGB
Image width: 3648Â px
Image height: 2736Â px
Interoperability IFD Pointer: 0x00001E0C
Sensing method: One-chip color area sensor
File source: Digital Camera
Scene type: A directly photographed image
Custom image processing: Normal process
Exposure mode: Auto exposure
White balance: Manual
Digital zoom ratio: Digital zoom was not used
Focal length in 35 mm film: 35Â mm
Scene capture type: Standard
Gain control: None
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal

Message edited by author 2009-04-08 15:34:27.

Jedusi

04/08/2009 03:34:11 PM · #5

I'm not sure I see a noise issue here either - For a P&S those look pretty good to me.

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

04/08/2009 03:37:06 PM · #6

To me I'd say there is either a whole lot of Noise reduction getting done, or you have a lens problem. That first image is super soft even at F11. With a good lens and some basic PP F11 should allow you to cut yourself on edges. I don't think I could cut butter with anything on that image. If its a new camera I'd ask for an exchange, if its an older one....either send it in for repair/check or buy a newer camera.

Matt

BrennanOB

Canon EOS-1D Mark II

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/08/2009 04:10:52 PM · #7

I've got the TZ5, an inferior model to yours and it produces MUCH sharper images than these. The setting in your EXIF look fine, so I suspect that something is wrong with your camera itself. Test it for front/back focusing, ect. clean the lens, do what you can, then send it in for repairs.

04/08/2009 05:35:08 PM · #8

The photo of my son is older than the other 2. Some weeks ago, my son let the camera fall from the desk to the ground (inside the bag). I did not notice any problems with it, so I expect it is ok.
I started to notice some noise because some of my photos were getting rejected on Shutterstock due to noise.
Then, yesterday I went to take some pictures on the beach and they are looking really noisy and lacking detail at 100%...
I used to let the image stabilization on, but those 2 photos on the beack were taken with image stabilization off. I should still test if it is just a matter of turning on the image stabilization.

These below were taken yesterday too at the same time as the previous. Same settings, except they were taken in RAW format. I cropped them at full size, no resize.

Full size here

Full size here

At last but not least, I must mention that even being almost 10 in the morning on a partial sunny day, there was a little bit of fog in the air, but I dont believe the noise and lack of detail were all caused by the fog.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

04/08/2009 05:51:39 PM · #9

Forgot to mention that I was using a circular polarizer also on those beach photos...

This is getting me crazy, I must figure out what is happening. I will perform some more tests tomorrow morning.

This one below don't have so much noise as the others and was taken in jpeg after the camera fall to the ground.

Full size here

---- Main section ----

Make: Panasonic
Model: DMC-FZ50
XResolution: 72,00
YResolution: 72,00
Resolution Unit: Inch
Software: Ver.1.0
Date Time: 2009:04:03 10:34:17
YCb Cr Positioning: Co-sited
Exif Offset: 536
Exposure Time: 1/40 sec
FNumber: F2,8
Exposure Program: Shutter priority
ISOSpeed Ratings: 100
Exif Version: "0221"
Date Time Original: 2009:04:03 10:34:17
Date Time Digitized: 2009:04:03 10:34:17
Components Configuration: YCbCr
Compressed Bits Per Pixel: 4/1
Exposure Bias Value: 0 EV
Max Aperture Value: F3,0
Metering Mode: MultiSegment
White Balance Preset: Flash
Flash: On, forced
Focal Length: 7,40 mm
Maker Note: "Panasonic"
Flash Pix Version: "0100"
Color Space: sRGB
Exif Image Height: 3648
Sensing Method: OneChipColorArea
File Source: "."
Scene Type: "."
Custom Rendered: Normal process
Exposure Mode: Auto Exposure
White Balance: Manual
Digital Zoom Ratio: 0/10
Unknown: 35
Exif Image Width: 2736
Scene Capture Type: Standard
Gain Control: None
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal
Unknown: "PrintIM"

---- Additional section ----

Image Quality: Not possible to define
White Balance: Auto
Focus Mode: Auto
Image Stabilization: Not possible to define
Macro Mode: Off (Not Used)
Shooting Mode: Normal
Color Effect: Off
Burst Mode: Low/High Quality
Noise Reduction: Low (-1)
SelfTimer: Off
Color Mode: Natural
Conversion Lens: Off

Prash

Nikon D90

04/08/2009 06:40:49 PM · #10

I think you just want to buy an SLR now. I hear excuses:-):-)

Honestly though, this level of noise looks ok with the P&Ss afaik... though I dont know how much better your camera is supposed to perform.

Why dont you take same shots at same settings with two copies of the camera.. like in a camera shop.. and compare?

Remember: there will be more noise when less than enough light is available for the sensor to resolve the scene. Even DSLRs struggle with that.. though the higher prices you pay for a DSLR, generally speaking, you get a sensor that will resolve in relatively dimmer settings.

Message edited by author 2009-04-08 19:21:22.

mpeters

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/08/2009 07:13:20 PM · #11

The first three shots you posted look fine-- maybe a bit soft on the two landscape shots but the shot of your son is razor sharp. What looks like noise reduction may be the shallow DOF. The 2nd two beach shots are not too good. :(

What RAW processing software are you using.
Did you use a polarizer on all of the beach pictures, including the two in your original post?

04/08/2009 08:38:59 PM · #12

Originally posted by Prash:

I'm supposing the problem is lack of light indeed. I've underexposed the beach photos to capture the light areas and loss detail in the darker areas... I think I just played wrong with that... Anyway, I've noticed my camera tends to have more noise on darker areas of any picture.

Regardless of noise, I've noticed too that my landscapes usually are soften than I wanted, but again may be just lack of technique on my side...

Message edited by author 2009-04-09 08:31:38.