Where's my Stimulus Money - DPChallenge Forums

03/24/2009 09:09:33 AM · #1

I haven't been paying attention to what was going on with this but where's my stimulus money?

03/24/2009 09:19:08 AM · #2

Economic Stimulus Payment Information Center
//www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=177937,00.html

A payment last year, or this year, but not both.

...You May Be Eligible

People who fall into the categories described below may be eligible for the recovery rebate credit this year:

Individuals who did not receive an economic stimulus payment.

Those who received less than the maximum economic stimulus payment in 2008 â�� $600 per taxpayer; $1,200 if married filing jointly â�� because their qualifying or gross income was either too high or too low.

Families who gained an additional qualifying child in 2008.

Individuals who could be claimed as a dependent on someone elseâ��s tax return in 2007, but who cannot be claimed as a dependent on another return in 2008.

Individuals who did not have a valid Social Security number in 2007 but who did receive one in 2008....

Recovery Rebate Credit Information Center
//www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=186065,00.html

Message edited by author 2009-03-24 09:23:33.

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

03/24/2009 10:10:08 AM · #3

The way this is going...my two kids are going to pay for all of this so called stimulus.....

There is no way we can ever pay the Chinese back trillions of dollars without our children's taxes be 50 - 75 percent.

They better find a better way to fix the economy other than government spending programs.

SDW

Canon EOS-60D

03/24/2009 10:17:36 AM · #4

Message edited by author 2009-03-24 21:24:08.

Dirt_Diver

Nikon D3s

03/24/2009 10:19:34 AM · #5

Thanks Obama

Message edited by author 2009-03-24 10:20:43.

03/24/2009 10:49:14 AM · #6

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Thanks Obama

I think you slight and spurn the 43rd president and his administration by trying to give all "the credit" to the 44th president. President Obama has not been in office long enough to dig as deep a hole as we are in. The previous eight years of Bush "stewardship" deserve to receive their pro rata allocation of responsibility. So, like the fireman who arrives on the scene of a fully engulfed 5 alarm fire, there are now only few and difficult choices for the new administration. Sadly, we may be facing currency debasement by the Federal Reserve and monetization of the trillions of bad debt by the Treasury department. Those catastrophic choices will haunt our grandchildren and the onus of responsibility for fixing the "Great Recession" will fall to the watch of the 44th.

Message edited by author 2009-03-24 10:50:29.

03/24/2009 11:14:05 AM · #7

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Thanks Obama

So, like the fireman who arrives on the scene of a fully engulfed 5 alarm fire

Most fireman do not throw gas on a burning fire, in the short time in office Obama has been on a spending spree that can not fully be put on the shoulders of the past administration. Only time will tell but the amount of spending should be scary to all Americans. If it works he is a hero, if it fails this country is in for some very rough times.

03/24/2009 12:11:57 PM · #8

Originally posted by PapaBob:

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Thanks Obama

So, like the fireman who arrives on the scene of a fully engulfed 5 alarm fire

Most fireman do not throw gas on a burning fire, in the short time in office Obama has been on a spending spree that can not fully be put on the shoulders of the past administration. Only time will tell but the amount of spending should be scary to all Americans. If it works he is a hero, if it fails this country is in for some very rough times.

Actually, the analogy is fairly accurate....even your extension of throwing gasoline on the fire. The economy and financial structure of this country have been "burnt down" over the past years. Lots of blame to go around. But, the focus needs to be on how to rebuild. I certainly agree that massive deficit spending and currency debasement by government will eventually be like throwing gasoline on a fire. However, right now, there seems to be a need to jump start a very weak economy and restore consumer confidence. I suppose the Federal Reserve feels they can solve inflation later. With deflation and economic contraction the primary concerns in the short run, we are betting that a Paul Volcker-like 1982 solution to inflation can be implemented in the future. I remember paying 19% interest on a business loan in 1982. That did solve inflation then, and it will be the tough medicine somewhere in our future.

Message edited by author 2009-03-24 12:12:34.

03/24/2009 12:22:57 PM · #9

I think making wise investments is good and needs to happen to some degree but I do question backing losers, I know the argument about the financial markets not being allowed to collapse is credible but to me spending money with proven winners would be smarter. We tend to throw money at mismanged businesses and punish successful businesses. I love the analogy of the basketball coach who beat the other team 100-0, was it in poor taste sure, but we fired the successful coach and kept the loser which to me says a lot about how we do business these days.

03/24/2009 12:29:53 PM · #10

the question is being asked right now live...

geithner and bernanke getting beaten up.

//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=22887506�

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

03/24/2009 12:31:22 PM · #11

Bush...Bush Bush...now you sound just like Obama....

Obama's mega budget will put us TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS in debt to the Chinese. If we don't borrow...we PRINT....INFLATION.

OBAMA talked this economy into the ground for two years. He said on HE could fix it. Now EVERY time it gets tough HE says "this economy was left to us by Bush".... That is getting old FAST. In my entire life...I remember Presidents Nixon to Obama....I don't recall ever hearing day after day any president blaming the past administration. Each one, from Ford to Carter to Bush to Clinton....just kept on working and taking the heat.

If I hear the phrase "people don't realize the plate that was handed to Geithner" come out of Obama's mouth one more time, I think I'll PUKE.

Obama ran as a moderate....he turned hard left and we will pay the price for a long time. The only think that can help now is to change the house and senate in the next two years.

Also...you say we need to JUMP START the economy...and we do that by spending Billions upon Billions on governement programs and PET PORK projects. Bigger government is not the answer.

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by PapaBob:

Originally posted by hahn23:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:
Thanks Obama

So, like the fireman who arrives on the scene of a fully engulfed 5 alarm fire

Most fireman do not throw gas on a burning fire, in the short time in office Obama has been on a spending spree that can not fully be put on the shoulders of the past administration. Only time will tell but the amount of spending should be scary to all Americans. If it works he is a hero, if it fails this country is in for some very rough times.

Actually, the analogy is fairly accurate....even your extension of throwing gasoline on the fire. The economy and financial structure of this country have been "burnt down" over the past years. Lots of blame to go around. But, the focus needs to be on how to rebuild. I certainly agree that massive deficit spending and currency debasement by government will eventually be like throwing gasoline on a fire. However, right now, there seems to be a need to jump start a very weak economy and restore consumer confidence. I suppose the Federal Reserve feels they can solve inflation later. With deflation and economic contraction the primary concerns in the short run, we are betting that a Paul Volcker-like 1982 solution to inflation can be implemented in the future. I remember paying 19% interest on a business loan in 1982. That did solve inflation then, and it will be the tough medicine somewhere in our future.

robs

Canon EOS R6 Mk II

03/24/2009 12:41:57 PM · #12

Originally posted by kenskid:

Bigger government is not the answer.

Agree but what alternative do you suggest? Both sides spend like drunken sailors on shore leave (among other things)... although maybe that is too tough on drunken sailors as they are generally better controlled and behaved in that state.

Pouring money down bad managers that made bad decisions is just repeating stupid stuff IMO and both side did it. God now we are talking about passing laws to invalidate bonus contracts retrospectively in certain companies because it's popular. Don't get me wrong... It's pathetic but invalidating contracts causes a prescience we should not touch... If we had to give them this much $ then we should have owned the damn company and had complete control over everything including bonus contracts.

NstiG8tr

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

03/24/2009 12:43:08 PM · #13

Originally posted by PapaBob:

in the short time in office Obama has been on a spending spree that can not fully be put on the shoulders of the past administration.

At least it's being spent on the well-being of this country. Unlike the $12 billion per day($16 billion/day if you include Afghanistan) being wasted in Iraq thanks to the Bush administration. The total could exceed $3 trillion by some estimates before it's all said and done. Bush said it would only cost tax-payers $50-60 billion. Another lie? Hell the whole war is based on lies. Imagine that. Did they ever find any WMD's? $12 billion/day in an ailing US economy could go a long way towards recovery.

Washington Post

Message edited by author 2009-03-24 12:44:40.

03/24/2009 12:45:00 PM · #14

Originally posted by PapaBob:

...I do question backing losers, I know the argument about the financial markets not being allowed to collapse is credible but to me spending money with proven winners would be smarter. ...

The concept of "creative destruction" has been a guiding principle of our free market economy. Somehow, we've lost our way. Through a lot of unwise choices by financial regulators, we created derivatives monsters "too big to fail". You'd think we would have learned a lesson from the near catastrophe of Long Term Capital Management fiasco in 1998. //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management Turns out that since we survived that debacle, there was "no fear" about allowing much, much larger schemes in the intervening years. Enron comes to mind. And now, CITI, AIG and untold others. We are paying the price for years of laissez-faire policies. And, the housing bubble ended in a bust, which seems to have been a big surprise to a lot of "smart" people. What we do next is fairly important. At this moment, it appears the policy is to inflate our way out of the deep hole by running the printing presses.

03/24/2009 01:39:20 PM · #15

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Originally posted by PapaBob:
in the short time in office Obama has been on a spending spree that can not fully be put on the shoulders of the past administration.

At least it's being spent on the well-being of this country. Unlike the $12 billion per day($16 billion/day if you include Afghanistan) being wasted in Iraq thanks to the Bush administration. The total could exceed $3 trillion by some estimates before it's all said and done. Bush said it would only cost tax-payers $50-60 billion. Another lie? Hell the whole war is based on lies. Imagine that. Did they ever find any WMD's? $12 billion/day in an ailing US economy could go a long way towards recovery.

Washington Post

For the record I did not agree with the war prior to going to war but unlike so many others I do recall both Parties voting to allow it.

03/24/2009 01:42:31 PM · #16

yeah based on mis-information/deceit/lies

oddly enough cheney is still standing strong on the war. though his premise has changed substantially now. touting how we have built a democratic entity in the middle east. i DON'T recall that being part of the original reasoning to invade....

Originally posted by PapaBob:

For the record I did not agree with the war prior to going to war but unlike so many others I do recall both Parties voting to allow it.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

03/24/2009 01:48:21 PM · #17

policies/laws will always be legally circumvented in one way or another. loop hole here, loop hole there. the underlying problem - and one that isn't ever going to be resolved until the entire world population is forced have a lobotomy upon birth - is GREED.

anyone who thinks this whole economic debacle wasn't wholly known - prior to the explosion - by those that created it is a fool.

Originally posted by hanh23:

The concept of "creative destruction" has been a guiding principle of our free market economy. Somehow, we've lost our way. Through a lot of unwise choices by financial regulators, we created derivatives monsters "too big to fail". You'd think we would have learned a lesson from the near catastrophe of Long Term Capital Management fiasco in 1998. //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management Turns out that since we survived that debacle, there was "no fear" about allowing much, much larger schemes in the intervening years. Enron comes to mind. And now, CITI, AIG and untold others. We are paying the price for years of laissez-faire policies. And, the housing bubble ended in a bust, which seems to have been a big surprise to a lot of "smart" people. What we do next is fairly important. At this moment, it appears the policy is to inflate our way out of the deep hole by running the printing presses.

Intelli

Nikon D300

03/24/2009 01:57:19 PM · #18

Obviously giving out money is not the answer. Take all that money that's been given out, and hand everyone in america a million bucks instead... what happens then? Nobody works..nothing gets done.. prices go up.. money is worthless..

In my eyes.. we are doing just that.. giving big business bailouts is dumb.. let them fall on their butt and go do some hard labor and build it back up again. It will take time, and it will be hard times for many people. But if a company fails..it fails!! Quit giving out the F'n money!!

03/24/2009 01:58:19 PM · #19

You are right brotha....If we had to give $$$ we should have put in condition....BUT WE DIDN'T...in fact...Dodd did the opposite...he added..."bonuses to be paid out" !!!

One argument I hear is that "if they would have went bankrupt...then they would not have gotten bonuses anyway"! THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT....but they didn't file bankruptcy....we bailed them out.

Bankruptcy is not all bad...it allows by law to not pay and/or renegotiate contracts. AIG should have been allowed to "fail" and reorganize. This should also happen to the car makers.

(please excuse any spelling errors...I'm to busy to check) !

Originally posted by robs:

Originally posted by kenskid:
Bigger government is not the answer.

Agree but what alternative do you suggest? Both sides spend like drunken sailors on shore leave (among other things)... although maybe that is too tough on drunken sailors as they are generally better controlled and behaved in that state.

Pouring money down bad managers that made bad decisions is just repeating stupid stuff IMO and both side did it. God now we are talking about passing laws to invalidate bonus contracts retrospectively in certain companies because it's popular. Don't get me wrong... It's pathetic but invalidating contracts causes a prescience we should not touch... If we had to give them this much $ then we should have owned the damn company and had complete control over everything including bonus contracts.

NstiG8tr

Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM

03/24/2009 02:13:32 PM · #20

Originally posted by PapaBob:

....I do recall both Parties voting to allow it.

Why wouldn't they have voted to allow it. Based on all the mis-information provided by the Bush admin. it sounded like the right thing to do.

03/24/2009 02:23:10 PM · #21

one thing i heard today - russia and china are asking for an international money standard.

if that doesn't scare you... i don't know what will.

stop paying income tax.... a new american revolution !

Message edited by author 2009-03-24 14:23:54.

03/24/2009 03:45:03 PM · #22

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Originally posted by PapaBob:
....I do recall both Parties voting to allow it.

Why wouldn't they have voted to allow it. Based on all the mis-information provided by the Bush admin. it sounded like the right thing to do.

Based on the mis-information I agreed action was needed but personally felt it would be better to get UN support before taking action, by only having limited support from other nations we set ourselves up to bare the brunt of the costs and negative reactions from other nations, that was why I felt we should persue the UN process further before acting.

If WMD's would have been found it would not have changed anything, we would still be there doing the same thing we are doing right now, spending the same amount of money, Losing the same amount of lives. When you vote to go to war no matter what the reasoning is there is a cost. The only thing that changed was Congress got a whipping boy so they could stand back and say they had no responsibility. In hindsight I think I was pretty close.

03/24/2009 03:51:03 PM · #23

I watched some of the live coverage today, it was interesting some of the questions being asked were very good but very few answers were really given to any of the questions. I especially liked the questions about what goals had been set up to measure how effective what they were doing was and if there was any written plan of action to measure against, sadly no answer which makes you wonder if this is a shotgun process where you just keep shooting and hope to hit someting that helps.

03/24/2009 04:29:36 PM · #24

You mean like all the MIS/DIS Information that Obama put out about rushing the first stimulus through congress without debate? Funny how ZERO Republicans voted for it in the house even though the admin presented them with so called facts about a DISASTER if we don't vote for it !

Originally posted by NstiG8tr:

Message edited by author 2009-03-24 16:30:22.