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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Kudos for Abstract Challenge and Labuda
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 05/03/2004 11:38:56 PM · #26
I think the strong reaction some felt to Labuda was his seeming indifference to the concerns of members of the site. He seemed to relish in tricking the "photographic integrity" sticklers, even after their strong concerns had been voiced and acknowledged.

That said, I'm tickled he's decided to stay around. Fantastic photographer, and I'd love to learn some of his photoshop skills, even if I don't want to apply them as he does.
 05/03/2004 11:44:35 PM · #27
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
You implied nothing. You flat-out called him a cheater.

-Terry


And I denied saying this when?

Edited to clarify: I understood what the rules meant the way that they were written when this whole thing with Labuda started. I even printed out these rules and showed them to several people to see if THEY understood what the rules meant. So the rules did NOT specifically say that you couldn't make stuff up and put them in an image, it was IN the rules! I, and most of the community here, and everyone that I have shown these rules knew what they meant. Some chose to go against these rules. In my eyes that is cheating!

Message edited by author 2004-05-03 23:49:08.
 05/03/2004 11:45:59 PM · #28
Originally posted by welcher:
I think the strong reaction some felt to Labuda was his seeming indifference to the concerns of members of the site. He seemed to relish in tricking the "photographic integrity" sticklers, even after their strong concerns had been voiced and acknowledged.

That said, I'm tickled he's decided to stay around. Fantastic photographer, and I'd love to learn some of his photoshop skills, even if I don't want to apply them as he does.


I see that some see MY point of view... Edited to add: The community here as a whole is probably better of with him here. I would personally love to see him do his photoshop magic, but in the challenges it is (and IMHO WAS) in violation of the rules as written!

Message edited by author 2004-05-03 23:51:32.
 05/03/2004 11:50:05 PM · #29
Definitely talent but there's no need for the profile picture.

"likeness of minors, (viii) encourages or depicts the use of drugs, alcohol or cigarettes" ala the
rules.

Seems to be pushing the rules to the limit.
 05/03/2004 11:52:48 PM · #30
Originally posted by welcher:
I think the strong reaction some felt to Labuda was his seeming indifference to the concerns of members of the site. He seemed to relish in tricking the "photographic integrity" sticklers, even after their strong concerns had been voiced and acknowledged.

That said, I'm tickled he's decided to stay around. Fantastic photographer, and I'd love to learn some of his photoshop skills, even if I don't want to apply them as he does.


He pushed the envelope as far as he could. Thats all he did. And most people that are very artistic love to try and take the artwork to the maximum capacitity, just enough to annoy some and amaze others.

And he does that perfectly. I love his stuff.

05/03/2004 11:56:00 PM · #31
I agree that he pushed the envelope. It's just that, several times in his picture descriptions, he expressed hope that he'd fool people, and glee in the anticipation of doing so. I didn't think that was particularly considerate of the members of this site. I would stop well short of saying he cheated.

AGAIN THOUGH, I'm glad he's staying around. I just wanted to clarify my previous post.
 05/04/2004 04:46:45 AM · #32
Whether you think he "flat out cheated", or are of the opinion that "He crossed the line, ever so slightly", -- the bottom line is that his entries were DQed by the Site Council for violating the "spirit and letter" of the rules twice. He precipitated a change in the rules and now they don't include photographic integrity. At times he showed an attitude that some felt was "thumbing his nose at the rules, and at the whole dpc community". It's not hard to see why some may have some "built up anger". And it's not hard to see why so many like his work. Perhaps we need to wait a while before we pass final judgement.
 05/04/2004 07:44:25 AM · #33
Originally posted by coolhar:
Perhaps we need to wait a while before we pass final judgement.


Final judgement? What are you? God?

Edit: Aleks perhaps you should hide somewhere these guys are planning to aply a "final judgement" to tou!!!

Message edited by author 2004-05-04 07:53:05.
 05/04/2004 09:49:16 AM · #34
Originally posted by frumoaznicul:
Originally posted by coolhar:
Perhaps we need to wait a while before we pass final judgement.


Final judgement? What are you? God?

Edit: Aleks perhaps you should hide somewhere these guys are planning to aply a "final judgement" to tou!!!


Aleks, you can come and hide at my place for a while. I'll just watch as you do your PS magic. I'll try to learn something.
05/04/2004 10:58:46 AM · #35
Originally posted by mariomel:


Aleks, you can come and hide at my place for a while. I'll just watch as you do your PS magic. I'll try to learn something.


Bolding mine.

I believe that was TooCool's point, he's a genius when it comes to PS and possibly when it come to photography but there are quite a few of us here who are not and have to depend on the camera, our eyes and our simple skills to compete with someone who has the skills in the dark room that we are still learning. I went back and looked at his shots again and almost every one of his higher scoring shots has details saying how he spends 2 - 5 hours working on the shot on the computer! This is from his Painting with Light Challenge entry (again, bolding mine):

Originally posted by labuda:
Many mirrors, diffusers, a polarizing filter, two light sources with blue filters and, of course, the olive red laser pointer were all we needed. The martini glass is resting on a piece of beveled glass. Initially, we had two lasers, one for the olive and one for the trail, which proved to be so difficult, well... impossible to get a nice smooth line. So I had to clone a laser trail to life... most people won't be happy to hear this, but after 5 hours of work, I wasn't going to give up the laser idea because without it; well, there's no painting and therefore no photo for the contest. Hope it looks realistic enough to fool the anti-editing crowd over here. If so: Gotcha!! If not, the jokes on me!


From the Mundane Challenge Entry:

Originally posted by labuda:

Post-processing:
cloned out many unwanted debris; moved some of the debris around; added a motion blur on staged wallnut; skintoned; boosted reflections on the nutcracker; smart blurred the background; cropped.


Looking at his Bar Fight shot before the PS and the after shot, it wasn't the photographer who created a great shot, it was the Photoshopper, the editor. There is a difference.

As for his tutorial, I did not find it that helpful, even if I did have a camera I could do a double exposure in, I did not find it that detailed and comprehensive to where I could create the same type of shot and I read it 10 times! More details, step by step and pictures to illustrate would help.

Deannda
Just my opinion, your's may vary, as it should
 05/04/2004 11:02:47 AM · #36
Somewhere in Montreal a good photographer watches this thread with amusement. Thanks for pushing the limits, Labuda. Only by going too far do we get a better understanding of what the limits are. This was as much a learning experience for the community as any Challenge.
 05/04/2004 12:54:48 PM · #37
As a digital photographer, PS is an essential tool in getting the most out of your shots. Most digital shots need post processing to be all that they can be. Just like traditional film cameras, where many shots are MADE in the darkroom work, the post processing is part of the final image.

In this digital day and age, being a good photographer and having a good eye is not enough.

Aleks has pushed the envelope a little, but he is still a master at what he does, both in pre and post processing. I hope I can learn something from him. We all should.


05/04/2004 02:27:51 PM · #38
Originally posted by mariomel:
As a digital photographer, PS is an essential tool in getting the most out of your shots. Most digital shots need post processing to be all that they can be. Just like traditional film cameras, where many shots are MADE in the darkroom work, the post processing is part of the final image.

In this digital day and age, being a good photographer and having a good eye is not enough.

Aleks has pushed the envelope a little, but he is still a master at what he does, both in pre and post processing. I hope I can learn something from him. We all should.


Not enough for what? To make a living at it? To win contests with it? How many of the ribbon winners here are as heavily post processed as Aleks has been? I think having a good eye is what it all starts with. And if you're not a good photographer, why bother with the camera at all? If you have to spend HOURS "fixing" a shot, maybe you should have tried a little harder on making the shot better the first time around.

Aleks is a master in photoshopping, that there is no argument, as for his photography, yes, it's nice, but I see nothing genius about it to me personally.

I'll show the example of what I was talking about before:

The before shot of Bar Fight:

The after shot of Bar Fight:

Two, totally and completely different shots, the first one is a snapshot of someone breaking a bottle inside a cut out barrel. The second one was created in photoshop using elements from the first one. How many hours did that take? And is it really PHOTOGRAPHY? I don't feel it is.

Here's the other example:

This is genius photography?

Finished product: This is genius photoshopping, nothing to do with photography.

That is the difference and that is what has some of the people upset, this is supposed to be about photography, getting it as close to right the first time so you don't have to spend hours in the photoshop program fixing the picture.

Deannda
 05/04/2004 02:40:51 PM · #39
I will say that, while I shared folks' frustration with Labuda's previous entries, I don't know if it's worth rehashing all the well-flogged points in light of Labuda's recent, completely-within-the-spirit-of-the-site-and-quite-good submissions.
 05/04/2004 03:12:03 PM · #40
Neuferland: I agree those are not photography, and I whas against all those manipulated shots that got DQ'd all the way while they were in discussion. But I find it not nice for you to only give those as examples when discussing Aleks's talent, when he has so many 100% integral photography to me that are atleast verry good. To me they are briliant.

Here are a few:



This is my favorite:


As for saying he sucks as a photographer, and he only masters photoshop (the new evil thing), well I did want to say to a few of those who do the agression towards Aleks that they suck as photographers preety bad, and it's all envy, but I don't seem to handle the offensive words as easy as you guys seem to do. I can never say that someone's work sucks even if I feel like it, I got enough education to know that such things are not nice to be thrown in someone's face just like that.

Besides, ok you don't like his work, that's fine, we all have different tastes, some of us do, the shots you pointed out were DQ'd what more do you want I don't see yours and TooCool's poit. Arn't we alowed to like the man's work if you don't? Or what the hell is the point to this discussion?

As for photoshop editing shots, I agree it should NOT be used to make a totaly different image than the initial shot, as Aleks did in those shots you pointed out, but I also agree it is a must and a verry helpful tool in the digital photography. If some of you for some reason can't deal with it, well I don't agree that instead of learning it, you guys should get so angry to those who do. That's just no way for progress, not for you not for photoraphy not for anyone. It's a fairly easy thing to learn, just google up a few PS tutorials, and I'm sure preety soon anyone can handle it, for cloning bad pixels, adjusting light colors saturations and such things. For those it is verry useful. Not that what Aleks did whas something evil, verry good artwork, just that this site is not the place for such things, here I completely agree with you.

PS, this all thread whas about him being good at abstracts:
...

Message edited by author 2004-05-04 15:36:29.
 05/05/2004 12:10:38 AM · #41
participating in an advanced editing competition without post-processing skills is like going to the bowling alley with a sack of golf balls. There is a place for those of you who want only to take your your digital shot straight from the camera and post. It is called the basic editing competition.
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