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12/10/2011 04:12:06 PM · #1601 |
| y can't they just leave ppl alone. |
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12/10/2011 04:30:40 PM · #1602 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
While I personally believe the eucharist is purely symbolic (ie. there is no real presence), I have no qualms with someone who wants to believe in the miraculous presence of Jesus in the bread and wine. |
Sounds similar to homeopathy. Do you have any qualms with people who believe in that? |
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12/13/2011 02:20:09 PM · #1603 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
From the write-up: ". As an added bonus, they will no longer be looked upon as people who “believe in nothing, stand for nothing and are good for nothing.â€
Wow. |
Doesn't it look like they are quoting something else (which may even be the atheist site)? What's the source?
EDIT: I'm guessing he was quoting David Silverman from some interview. Likely David was complaining that he feels atheists are looked at this way. Frankly this looks to be old news, the "Adopt an Atheist" thing seems to be at least half a year old.
It seems like it's more of what an Op-Ed piece complained about in last Sunday's New York Times:
For a nation of talkers and self-confessors, we are terrible when it comes to talking about God. The discourse has been co-opted by the True Believers, on one hand, and Angry Atheists on the other. What about the rest of us?
Message edited by author 2011-12-13 14:39:25. |
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02/17/2012 04:57:55 PM · #1604 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by JH:
At least when you're sitting in the nursing home you'll feel as if you did something worthwhile with your few decades on earth. |
But those who have faith DO believe their lives have had meaning, that their time on earth was worthwhile, that there was some purpose served by it all. Why are some of you fighting so hard to take this away from our faith-full individuals?
R. |
...ah but you see my dear friend some of us are not fighting at all to remove this from our faith based friends, not in the least.
What we cannot begin to comprehend is why they strive so ardently to convince us that our lives are devoid of true meaning since we do not share their belief in the afterlife. To some, the point of life is life itself, period.
Ray |
If you saw that your friend's house was on fire, and the lives of your friend and his family were in peril, would you bother to warm him?
And if your friend refused to believe his house was on fire, and put in a movie to watch, how insistent would you be that he take his family and get out of the house?
And after all your efforts failed because your friend would not believe, and would not leave his house, wouldn't you weep at your failure to persuade?
Perhaps they strive so ardently because they care and truly believe that the atheist is in danger. |
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02/17/2012 05:02:47 PM · #1605 |
And someone actually thought this was a good idea? I don't even know where to start... |
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02/17/2012 06:30:06 PM · #1606 |
Originally posted by dtremain:
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by JH:
At least when you're sitting in the nursing home you'll feel as if you did something worthwhile with your few decades on earth. |
But those who have faith DO believe their lives have had meaning, that their time on earth was worthwhile, that there was some purpose served by it all. Why are some of you fighting so hard to take this away from our faith-full individuals?
R. |
...ah but you see my dear friend some of us are not fighting at all to remove this from our faith based friends, not in the least.
What we cannot begin to comprehend is why they strive so ardently to convince us that our lives are devoid of true meaning since we do not share their belief in the afterlife. To some, the point of life is life itself, period.
Ray |
If you saw that your friend's house was on fire, and the lives of your friend and his family were in peril, would you bother to warm him?
And if your friend refused to believe his house was on fire, and put in a movie to watch, how insistent would you be that he take his family and get out of the house?
And after all your efforts failed because your friend would not believe, and would not leave his house, wouldn't you weep at your failure to persuade?
Perhaps they strive so ardently because they care and truly believe that the atheist is in danger. |
The major difference between what I am alluding to and the example you put forth is that my friend could look outside and see for himself that his house is on fire.
If I told him that the Great Spaghetti Monster was giving him ten minutes to clear out before he blew his house down, I might have a tad more difficulty in convincing him.
Faith is just that...and some of us don't share your beliefs and I am certain that you will never be held accountable for not convincing us that yours is the right way.
Ray
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02/18/2012 12:59:38 AM · #1607 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
...snip... What we cannot begin to comprehend is why they strive so ardently to convince us that our lives are devoid of true meaning since we do not share their belief in the afterlife. ...snip...
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It was not my intention to argue the point. You expressed an inability to understand why people try to convince you to believe as they do. I attempted to give you an example of one possibility. The stronger one's belief is that a friend (or even a stranger) is in danger, the stronger the effort they might put forth in order to "rescue" them from that danger (real or not). The key elements here are one person's belief in the danger to another, and the other's lack of belief that they are in danger.
;-p I call it the "You'll thank me later" syndrome.
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02/18/2012 01:14:55 AM · #1608 |
Originally posted by dtremain:
I call it the "You'll thank me later" syndrome. |
Quick! You must sacrifice a goat to Zeus immediately or you'll surely be struck down by lightning at some point after you're already dead. You'll thank me later.
If this sounds ridiculous, then you understand. |
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02/19/2012 12:40:10 PM · #1609 |
Originally posted by dtremain:
I call it the "You'll thank me later" syndrome. |
...you might, but I would refer to it as harassment.
Ray |
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02/19/2012 12:51:46 PM · #1610 |
dr. achoo and scalvert, i am not religious or anything, but i want to hear what you both think is the point and meaning of life.
thank you :) |
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02/19/2012 02:02:17 PM · #1611 |
wow that's a good question!
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02/19/2012 03:33:22 PM · #1612 |
Originally posted by nickyb:
dr. achoo and scalvert, i am not religious or anything, but i want to hear what you both think is the point and meaning of life.
thank you :) |
...I can't speak for either of these two gentlemen, but life is the period of time that spans from birth to death...
The meaning of life however depends on the context that one views it in and the subject that one is studying.
Let the games begin,
Ray |
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02/19/2012 03:35:18 PM · #1613 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by nickyb:
dr. achoo and scalvert, i am not religious or anything, but i want to hear what you both think is the point and meaning of life.
thank you :) |
...I can't speak for either of these two gentlemen, but life is the period of time that spans from birth to death...
The meaning of life however depends on the context that one views it in and the subject that one is studying.
Let the games begin,
Ray |
cht cht cht let them answer;) |
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02/19/2012 04:22:07 PM · #1614 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by nickyb:
dr. achoo and scalvert, i am not religious or anything, but i want to hear what you both think is the point and meaning of life.
thank you :) |
...I can't speak for either of these two gentlemen, but life is the period of time that spans from birth to death...
The meaning of life however depends on the context that one views it in and the subject that one is studying.
Let the games begin,
Ray |
Yes context is key. For example, lets suppose DPC is all that exists. Then the meaning of life is simple, win a ribbon. |
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02/19/2012 05:04:16 PM · #1615 |
Originally posted by yanko:
Yes context is key. For example, lets suppose DPC is all that exists. Then the meaning of life is simple, win a ribbon. |
Not according to the "mission statement" -- I think it would be to become better photographers .... |
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02/19/2012 05:23:52 PM · #1616 |
| (lets see what they have to say about it without influence;) ) |
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02/19/2012 06:13:47 PM · #1617 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by yanko:
Yes context is key. For example, lets suppose DPC is all that exists. Then the meaning of life is simple, win a ribbon. |
Not according to the "mission statement" -- I think it would be to become better photographers .... |
What?! Mission statement?! Is that like the bible or something? Too boring. Not enough fire and brimstone. Wake me up when there's a resurrection or something. No, I'm pretty sure it's about hoarding riches. Now where did I leave my ribbon fleece? |
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02/19/2012 07:05:23 PM · #1618 |
| There is no meaning to life. Life just is. |
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02/19/2012 07:06:06 PM · #1619 |
I'm pressed for time over the next few days, so I can't really do the question justice, however I don't necessarily agree with the notion that there has to be a meaning or purpose at all. Does a rock or raccoon have a meaning or purpose? What about a mosquito or ebola or someone in a permanent coma? I'm perfectly fine with things just "being." Some aspire to providing a better life for our children and future generations while others may live for the moment and simply enjoy life. I think we each find personal meaning in our own way, whether it be volunteering for a charity, raising successful kids and a happy family, making our parents proud or even building a legacy for others to remember us by.
EDIT– I also think our sense of purpose changes over time, and the things we find meaningful in high school will not be the same when we're 30 or 60.
Message edited by author 2012-02-19 19:09:44. |
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02/19/2012 07:29:11 PM · #1620 |
I agree with Scalvert on this one. "Point" or "meaning" is a wholly human fabrication, and I'd imagine, a recent one at that. I don't think reckon our pre-agricultural ancestors were sitting around trying to find meaning to their existence, they just existed. Personally I would align myself religiously as a Buddhist. Though I don't prescribe to everything involved with certain forms of Buddhist, I agree with some of the basic tenants about compassion, the benefits of meditation, and really, learning to just be.
To me Christianity just seems to add another step to questions that can't be answered, and thinks that means they are answered. For example: Where did man come from? God. Ok so then where did God come from? It just delays the question.
What's the meaning of life? To please God and go to heaven. Ok so what's the point or meaning of just hanging around in heaven for all of eternity?
For me, you make your own meaning, your own purpose in life. |
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02/19/2012 08:33:27 PM · #1621 |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by dtremain:
;-p I call it the "You'll thank me later" syndrome. |
...you might, but I would refer to it as harassment.
Ray |
And you would have every right to refer to it as whatever you choose, since it is your life and your decision / experience.
I think it fair to say that the harasser would also have the right to his/her own perspective of his/her behavior.
Each are valid unto themselves, but the question remains as to how to resolve the difference.
If you make your perception known to the harasser, they have a decision to make - to stop harassing you (as you perceive it and have requested), or to decide that the import of the situation overrides your right not to be harassed.
If I were to argue anything on this it would be that if a person expresses that they find something offensive, continuing to offend them after that point does not strengthen your case, but disrespects them badly.
BTW - my name for the syndrome was intended to be sarcastic, and not an endorsement. |
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02/19/2012 08:51:36 PM · #1622 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by dtremain:
;-p I call it the "You'll thank me later" syndrome. |
Quick! You must sacrifice a goat to Zeus immediately or you'll surely be struck down by lightning at some point after you're already dead. You'll thank me later.
If this sounds ridiculous, then you understand. |
Wait! Don't tell me! You meant for this to sound ridiculous. Right?
Back to my original response to Ray's statement about not understanding why some folks are so ardent about trying to convince him... IF some looney-bin mentally-challenged idiot actually, truly believed Zeus was real, and actually believed that sacrificing a goat to him would prevent the very real chance of him striking you with lightning at some time after you're already dead (which would be a really, really, really bad thing for you), it might explain an ardent, continual effort to convince you to go ahead with the goat sacrifice, mightn't it?
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02/19/2012 09:06:42 PM · #1623 |
Originally posted by dtremain:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by dtremain:
;-p I call it the "You'll thank me later" syndrome. |
Quick! You must sacrifice a goat to Zeus immediately or you'll surely be struck down by lightning at some point after you're already dead. You'll thank me later.
If this sounds ridiculous, then you understand. |
Wait! Don't tell me! You meant for this to sound ridiculous. Right?
Back to my original response to Ray's statement about not understanding why some folks are so ardent about trying to convince him... IF some looney-bin mentally-challenged idiot actually, truly believed Zeus was real, and actually believed that sacrificing a goat to him would prevent the very real chance of him striking you with lightning at some time after you're already dead (which would be a really, really, really bad thing for you), it might explain an ardent, continual effort to convince you to go ahead with the goat sacrifice, mightn't it? |
So, truly believing in Zeus means you're a looney-bin mentally-challenged idiot? Are all mentally-challenged people idiots? Or is it just people that believe in a god that isn't the flavor-of-the-millenium god? What in all the 7 hells (that don't exist) are you trying to SAY?! Do we need an intervention? |
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02/19/2012 09:45:53 PM · #1624 |
Originally posted by dtremain:
If you make your perception known to the harasser, they have a decision to make - to stop harassing you (as you perceive it and have requested), or to decide that the import of the situation overrides your right not to be harassed. |
This behaviour you allude to might be OK in religious circles, but in the real world the continued harassment would result in the perpetrator being brought before the tribunals.
Maybe the laws are different where you live.
Ray |
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02/19/2012 09:46:44 PM · #1625 |
Originally posted by dtremain:
You meant for this to sound ridiculous. Right? |
It sounded ridiculous when you posted it. Changing the god of the day doesn't make it less so. You're comparing a real, naturalistic threat with an imagined, supernatural threat. The comparison is apples and orange fairy dust. If you knock on my door to warn me that my car is rolling down a hill or that a forest fire is headed our way, I'll be grateful for the heads up. If you do it because a dragon is coming or the gods are angry, no matter how sincere your belief, be sure to watch your fingers when the door closes. |
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