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12/30/2008 07:57:26 PM · #1 |
Is this true?
I was sent this email by a professor friend of mine who teaches political science at the university I did not graduate from.
I kept in touch with him over the years, and he sends me things in the mail, or email now a days, that seem really amazing, or truly outrageous.
Is it true that the United States is going to give Social Security benefits to illegal aliens?
I am appalled, and unforgiving for this. I paid my share of taxes all these years so that some wet back can receive a hand out from our government.
First the bail outs to wall street, the banks and possibly industry. Now this?
I thought the United States was founded on principles that reflected in favor of it's citizens..."For the people, of the people, by the people." And when I say people, I really mean those of us that are CITIZENS. Legal, tax paying, one vote, work hard, patriotic god damn CITIZENS.
If so, this country is going in the wrong direction.
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Please understand that all the President can do is veto the legislation and that he is not in control of either the House or the Senate.
SOCIAL SECURITY CHANGES
It is already impossible to live on Social Security alone. If the government gives benefits to 'illegal' aliens who have never contributed, where does that leave those of us who have paid into Social Security all our working lives?
As stated below, the Senate voted this week to allow 'illegal' aliens access to Social Security benefits. Attached is an opportunity to sign a petition that requires citizenship for eligibility to that social service.
If you do not want to sign it, please just forward it to everyone you know.
Thank you!
When the petition hits 1,000, send it to comment@whitehouse.gov
PETITION for President Bush:
Dear Mr President:
We, the undersigned, protest the bill that the Senate voted on recently which would allow illegal aliens to access our Social Security. We demand that you and all Congressional representatives require citizenship as a prerequisite for social services in the United States .
We further demand that there not be any amnesty given to illegals, NO free services, no funding, no payments to and for illegal immigrants.
We are fed up with the lack of action about this matter and are tired of paying for services to illegals.
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12/30/2008 08:56:37 PM · #2 |
| USA getting more like the UK every year ;-) |
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12/30/2008 09:04:42 PM · #3 |
Yeah, by all means petition the guy that is lame duck and leaving in less than three weeks. It's already mentioned the President can do nothing or little about this.
Pointless.
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12/30/2008 09:22:01 PM · #4 |
| Our country is in a sad position at this time and I'm not talking about who's take office, my post is in general. The US Constitutions is little more than paper now as we [USA] are finding it easier to do things or founding fathers put in the constitution for us not to do. |
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12/30/2008 09:40:25 PM · #5 |
This is merely an offensive, wannabe-hoax. Never has it been proposed by any senator that any non-citizen receive rights to social security benefits.
Message edited by author 2008-12-30 21:40:54. |
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12/30/2008 09:43:52 PM · #6 |
This is a strange discussion anyway, because the Social Security Program is one that workers pay into, and employers pay into, and then the program pays back out to you at a future date. It's not a giveaway. LOTS of non-citizens pay their taxes and are paying INTO Social Security; the real shame is if they are forced to pay into it but cannot take benefits from it.
R.
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12/30/2008 10:06:17 PM · #7 |
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12/30/2008 10:11:44 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
This is a strange discussion anyway, because the Social Security Program is one that workers pay into, and employers pay into, and then the program pays back out to you at a future date. It's not a giveaway. LOTS of non-citizens pay their taxes and are paying INTO Social Security; the real shame is if they are forced to pay into it but cannot take benefits from it.
R. |
You'll have to forgive me for not being sorry one bit that illegal aliens won't receive the benefits of their tax dollars. Let them come here legally if they want to suck off our welfare and retirement programs. It's complete horseshit that they are here to begin with.
Just like Obama's auntie that was living in Boston FOR YEARS on welfare after being ORDERED to be deported by an immigration judge. Complete crap situation there. |
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12/30/2008 10:42:12 PM · #9 |
| The bigger "crap situation" is that someone would dream up this hoax to further instill, develop and perpetuate hatred by the ignorant of another group of people. Not at all a good or event decent way to raise or deal with the immigration issue and border security. |
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12/30/2008 11:18:30 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by L2:
You'll have to forgive me for not being sorry one bit that illegal aliens won't receive the benefits of their tax dollars. Let them come here legally if they want to suck off our welfare and retirement programs. It's complete horseshit that they are here to begin with.
Just like Obama's auntie that was living in Boston FOR YEARS on welfare after being ORDERED to be deported by an immigration judge. Complete crap situation there. |
Social Security is NOT "tax dollars". It's a specific program that you pay into when you are working and that you draw out of when you are retired. Social Security has NOTHING to do with welfare, which is tax-dollars-funded to benefit indigent people, basically.
If there is a cloass of workers in America who, for whatever reason, are not going to be allowed to see the benefits of their Social Security payments when they retire, then they ought not to be required to make those payments in the first place. I can understand your being upset with what amounts to welfare fraud, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the Social Security program.
R.
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12/30/2008 11:36:47 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by L2:
You'll have to forgive me for not being sorry one bit that illegal aliens won't receive the benefits of their tax dollars. Let them come here legally if they want to suck off our welfare and retirement programs. It's complete horseshit that they are here to begin with.
Just like Obama's auntie that was living in Boston FOR YEARS on welfare after being ORDERED to be deported by an immigration judge. Complete crap situation there. |
Social Security is NOT "tax dollars". It's a specific program that you pay into when you are working and that you draw out of when you are retired. Social Security has NOTHING to do with welfare, which is tax-dollars-funded to benefit indigent people, basically.
If there is a cloass of workers in America who, for whatever reason, are not going to be allowed to see the benefits of their Social Security payments when they retire, then they ought not to be required to make those payments in the first place. I can understand your being upset with what amounts to welfare fraud, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the Social Security program.
R. |
As a whole, what gets paid into the Social Security program is not enough to cover what is expected to have to be paid out as mortality rates among Americans continue to skew towards longevity. The program is in trouble; it has been for a long time. Most of those citizens who collect SS now are actually collecting (or going to collect) far more than they ever paid in with the difference being made up between investment income on the prior payment stream and --- you guessed it -- borrowing from the future and taking payments currently made by working TAXPAYERS and using them to fund current obligations.
Your theory is correct; however, the reality of the situation is not.
In addition, there are other Social Security benefits that are not retirement-dependent, namely, benefits to survivors (spouses, underage children) and disability benefits without regard to age. These are paid without regard to what the original beneficiary paid in to the system, and those payments are funded by current taxpayers who are paying in, but may not ever even see "their" money with it being spent already on those who need it now.
It would be nice if we limited SS retirement payments to what someone actually paid in plus a reasonable investment income on the original annuity stream, but that's not what actually happens. The overage is indeed funded by *current* taxpayers.
It's wrong to say that Social Security isn't funded by tax dollars. It wasn't supposed to be when the program was originally designed, but the truth is that it is indeed funded (at least in part) by current taxpayers in order to fulfill a promise made years ago by the government. |
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12/31/2008 12:05:21 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by L2:
As a whole, what gets paid into the Social Security program is not enough to cover what is expected to have to be paid out as mortality rates among Americans continue to skew towards longevity. The program is in trouble; it has been for a long time. Most of those citizens who collect SS now are actually collecting (or going to collect) far more than they ever paid in with the difference being made up between investment income on the prior payment stream and --- you guessed it -- borrowing from the future and taking payments currently made by working TAXPAYERS and using them to fund current obligations.
Your theory is correct; however, the reality of the situation is not.
In addition, there are other Social Security benefits that are not retirement-dependent, namely, benefits to survivors (spouses, underage children) and disability benefits without regard to age. These are paid without regard to what the original beneficiary paid in to the system, and those payments are funded by current taxpayers who are paying in, but may not ever even see "their" money with it being spent already on those who need it now.
It would be nice if we limited SS retirement payments to what someone actually paid in plus a reasonable investment income on the original annuity stream, but that's not what actually happens. The overage is indeed funded by *current* taxpayers.
It's wrong to say that Social Security isn't funded by tax dollars. It wasn't supposed to be when the program was originally designed, but the truth is that it is indeed funded (at least in part) by current taxpayers in order to fulfill a promise made years ago by the government. |
Not quite true...
For years, Social Security has been taking in more in taxes than it has paid out in benefits — in recent years, lots more. In fact, Social Security has run a 22-year “surplus” of over $2.1 trillion, as reported by the Congressional Budget Office (the related CBO page in graphic form is here; the full report is a PDF found at this CBO page):
What have the politicians in Washington done with those surpluses? They’ve spent them, by continually borrowing from Social Security’s “Trust Fund.”
By including Social Security in a “unified” budget and raiding its surpluses, Uncle Sam has been able to paper over typically huge deficits in all other government operations. For example, as you can see above, in fiscal 2007, the government’s operational (”on-budget”) deficit was $343.4 billion; but after netting in the Social Security surplus and the Postal Service, it “officially” reported a deficit of $162 billion.
This situation has been allowed to continue with rare objection through Republican and Democratic administrations, with the acquiescence of Republican and Democratic Congresses, for 40 years. Insert your own conclusions about the breathtaking irresponsibility of our political class.
link to where these quotes came from
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12/31/2008 12:10:47 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by signal2noise:
The bigger "crap situation" is that someone would dream up this hoax to further instill, develop and perpetuate hatred by the ignorant of another group of people. Not at all a good or event decent way to raise or deal with the immigration issue and border security. |
I don't hate ANY group of people, not matter what their race, creed or religion.
I myself have native blood in me. My cousins live on Rose Bud reservation in South Dakota.
My grandmother was born in a teepee. My heros have always killed cowboys, I.E. Crazy Horse.
I can care less what you represent. I care for who you are.
The fact is, I am an American. Born, and raised. Former Marine. Worked my ass off to where I am today.
Not many native Indians, bloods, have made it as far as I have.
THAT, my fellow DPCer, is why I don't like illegals. You can be Canadian, and if you are here illegally, get the fuck out.
This is my country, my club, and if you don't have permission to be in my club, then what gives you the right to drink from my open bar.
Every illegal that is here in the United States of America...become LEGAL, then you can be part of my club.
Until then, get the fuck out of my club house, asshole.
Message edited by author 2008-12-31 00:11:04.
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12/31/2008 12:37:59 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by signal2noise:
The bigger "crap situation" is that someone would dream up this hoax to further instill, develop and perpetuate hatred by the ignorant of another group of people. Not at all a good or event decent way to raise or deal with the immigration issue and border security. |
I don't hate ANY group of people, not matter what their race, creed or religion.
I myself have native blood in me. My cousins live on Rose Bud reservation in South Dakota.
My grandmother was born in a teepee. My heros have always killed cowboys, I.E. Crazy Horse.
I can care less what you represent. I care for who you are.
The fact is, I am an American. Born, and raised. Former Marine. Worked my ass off to where I am today.
Not many native Indians, bloods, have made it as far as I have.
THAT, my fellow DPCer, is why I don't like illegals. You can be Canadian, and if you are here illegally, get the fuck out.
This is my country, my club, and if you don't have permission to be in my club, then what gives you the right to drink from my open bar.
Every illegal that is here in the United States of America...become LEGAL, then you can be part of my club.
Until then, get the fuck out of my club house, asshole. |
All fine and dandy, but this ignorant hoax, which I was addressing, does nothing to address or better the situation - let alone educate anyone to situation at hand. Its only objective is to mislead, misrepresent and misinform - resulting in fear and hatred of those who are the intended targets. |
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12/31/2008 12:45:23 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by signal2noise:
The bigger "crap situation" is that someone would dream up this hoax to further instill, develop and perpetuate hatred by the ignorant of another group of people. Not at all a good or event decent way to raise or deal with the immigration issue and border security. |
I don't hate ANY group of people, not matter what their race, creed or religion.
I myself have native blood in me. My cousins live on Rose Bud reservation in South Dakota.
My grandmother was born in a teepee. My heros have always killed cowboys, I.E. Crazy Horse.
I can care less what you represent. I care for who you are.
The fact is, I am an American. Born, and raised. Former Marine. Worked my ass off to where I am today.
Not many native Indians, bloods, have made it as far as I have.
THAT, my fellow DPCer, is why I don't like illegals. You can be Canadian, and if you are here illegally, get the fuck out.
This is my country, my club, and if you don't have permission to be in my club, then what gives you the right to drink from my open bar.
Every illegal that is here in the United States of America...become LEGAL, then you can be part of my club.
Until then, get the fuck out of my club house, asshole. |
Just curious, did you have to become legal or were you just born into the club?
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12/31/2008 01:01:45 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Every illegal that is here in the United States of America...become LEGAL, then you can be part of my club.
Until then, get the fuck out of my club house, asshole. |
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
--Emma Lazarus
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12/31/2008 01:26:08 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Every illegal that is here in the United States of America...become LEGAL, then you can be part of my club.
Until then, get the fuck out of my club house, asshole. |
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
--Emma Lazarus |
Great quote...but there is nothing in there that says that the door is wide open, come on in for free. It is merely a promise of freedom, not free loader.
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12/31/2008 02:07:36 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by Mick:
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Every illegal that is here in the United States of America...become LEGAL, then you can be part of my club.
Until then, get the fuck out of my club house, asshole. |
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
--Emma Lazarus |
Great quote...but there is nothing in there that says that the door is wide open, come on in for free. It is merely a promise of freedom, not free loader. |
You're absolutely right, none of those here illegally, actually work, they're just here for the freebies. They all spend 14 hour days picking in the fields and orchards, cleaning houses, working in slaughterhouses because it's fun.
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12/31/2008 09:01:27 AM · #19 |
A comparison of Mexican immigration rules to those of the US.
Excerpt:
In order to become a citizen, the applicant must renounce his home country citizenship, demonstrate that he speaks Spanish, knows Mexican history and has assimilated to Mexican life.[VDARE.COM note: A previous Mexican Government had a very bad experience with some Texans who failed to assimilate. Remember the Alamo?] And he must have lived in Mexico for 5 years.
A comparison with many other countries will show the US has fairly lax immigration law.
A friend recently retired and decided to vacation in OZ. He found out rather quickly that if he wanted to stay longer than about six weeks he had to prove to the Aussy government that he was financially independent or no deal.
Seems in the sixties, seventies, and eighties that crowds of Americans went to OZ to make their fortunes. Apparently 95 percent of them ended up on the dole. :)
So each country has a responsibility to craft and enforce it's immigration policies as it sees fit. |
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12/31/2008 09:18:12 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Great quote...but there is nothing in there that says that the door is wide open, come on in for free. It is merely a promise of freedom, not free loader. |
You're absolutely right, none of those here illegally, actually work, they're just here for the freebies. They all spend 14 hour days picking in the fields and orchards, cleaning houses, working in slaughterhouses because it's fun. |
I've got to hand it to you.
You've done it once again.
Your record is flawless.
In the past few years I have been here, you are absolutely the only member here at DPC that can actually fuck up a wet dream.
Blowing apart, stretching, and discombobulating peoples thoughts and ideas into something not meant or said. You actually are pretty good at it.
Congratulations on your non-involved, idiotic observations.
Keep at it, maybe someday you can run for a political office, and you then can be the saviour to all those illegal Canadians.
Message edited by author 2008-12-31 09:19:23.
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12/31/2008 09:23:01 AM · #21 |
| I thought Spazmo made a pretty fair point.... |
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12/31/2008 09:44:54 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by SaraR:
I thought Spazmo made a pretty fair point.... |
As my thoughts are obviously not actually read, please try to understand.
I don't care if you want to be a LEGAL United States Citizen.
CHEATING is not acceptable.
If they are not legal citizens, then, in my opinion, my country is being STOLEN...again.
I don't care if they are from Mexico, Canada, China, Africa, or the Land of OZ.
Giving hand outs to someone that is CHEATING is not how I want my tax dollars to be spent.
Giving a drivers license to someone that is CHEATING without proof of insurance is stupid.
If our government wants to give temporary worker status to an immigrant, fine, at least they will be paying their share.
I would rather see our hard earned tax dollars, and any other hand outs given to our homeless FIRST, rather spending billions on keeping illegals out.
Let's put it this way.
If you CHEAT in Las Vegas, and your caught, do they give you a big hug, give you more money, and let you back onto the strip?
If your husband or wife CHEATS, do you go out and buy them a car in appreciation?
If you CHEAT on your income tax, does the IRS come down with a big card board bonus check, with balloons and confetti?
ALL I AM SAYING is simple. Please read slowly to let the thought sink in.
Go through the LEGAL process of becoming a LEGAL United States Citizen. Get a Social Security number, pay your taxes, and contribute to this country BEFORE reaping the benefits this country offers.
This has been my only rant, in a long time since joining DPC.
I am turning off rant.
Good bye.
Message edited by author 2008-12-31 09:46:59.
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12/31/2008 10:00:08 AM · #23 |
As has already been pointed out, Social Security is not a handout.
I'm with you on the welfare side of things but if you pay into something you should be allowed to collect from it.
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12/31/2008 10:27:49 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by SaraR:
I thought Spazmo made a pretty fair point.... |
As my thoughts are obviously not actually read, please try to understand.
I don't care if you want to be a LEGAL United States Citizen.
CHEATING is not acceptable.
If they are not legal citizens, then, in my opinion, my country is being STOLEN...again.
I don't care if they are from Mexico, Canada, China, Africa, or the Land of OZ.
Giving hand outs to someone that is CHEATING is not how I want my tax dollars to be spent.
Giving a drivers license to someone that is CHEATING without proof of insurance is stupid.
If our government wants to give temporary worker status to an immigrant, fine, at least they will be paying their share.
I would rather see our hard earned tax dollars, and any other hand outs given to our homeless FIRST, rather spending billions on keeping illegals out.
Let's put it this way.
If you CHEAT in Las Vegas, and your caught, do they give you a big hug, give you more money, and let you back onto the strip?
If your husband or wife CHEATS, do you go out and buy them a car in appreciation?
If you CHEAT on your income tax, does the IRS come down with a big card board bonus check, with balloons and confetti?
ALL I AM SAYING is simple. Please read slowly to let the thought sink in.
Go through the LEGAL process of becoming a LEGAL United States Citizen. Get a Social Security number, pay your taxes, and contribute to this country BEFORE reaping the benefits this country offers.
This has been my only rant, in a long time since joining DPC.
I am turning off rant.
Good bye. |
That's it, take your ball, go home and pout.
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12/31/2008 10:46:45 AM · #25 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by SaraR:
I thought Spazmo made a pretty fair point.... |
As my thoughts are obviously not actually read, please try to understand.
I don't care if you want to be a LEGAL United States Citizen.
CHEATING is not acceptable.
... |
But you say that as though it were a matter of people deliberately ignoring simple procedures in order to cheat.
For practical purposes, it would have been impossible for most of the illegals in this country to actually obtain legal working papers. Thus, they had made a choice: a) "cheat" (your words), risking their lives & life savings to cross illegally, separate from their families & friends, work their tushes off to make less than a living wage in many cases, unable to collect social security, spend their life hated by many and terrified of being caught and tossed right back, or b) stay in their own country.
Just how bad do you think option b) has to be to be worse than a)?
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