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12/20/2008 10:04:59 AM · #1 |
So I was reading on another thread that someone suggested adding at the end of their entry title: ACW which would be a new DPC acronym for All Comments Welcome.
I like the idea and I'm starting this thread for discussion on general thoughts and comments about it.
Personally, I'd love to see it offered up as a "Safe Harbor" so that if someone sees it at the end of a title that they know that they could leave an honest comment without fear of reprisal.
I know I'd definitely be one who'd use it, because at this point in my DPC career, I realize that the comments I learn the most from might actually appear to be the harshest.......and those would be the ones that are scrupulously honest in pointing out flaws.
I'm actually doing pretty well (I think! LOL!!!) in the Stars challenge, got 13 commments so far, and at least half of them pointed out a glaring flaw......that I missed ENTIRELY!!!!!
I'm truly appreciative of that, but I have noticed from the threads that people are expressing concern about getting nasty PMs in return for leaving a critical comment.
Maybe this is a possibility for letting people know that they may feel free to leave an honest comment without that fear.
Thoughts?
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12/20/2008 10:31:44 AM · #2 |
| Jeb, I really think the majority here want comments. It would be better maybe to use NCW (No comments welcome) for the very few who don't want feedback. I think it'd be pretty funny to have 475 entries titled blankety blank-ACW and 10 just blankety-blank. LOL! I don't think most who get rude about comments they receive even realize they are being rude. They just really think their picture is the best on earth and only want to be praised. I guarantee those same people would be using ACW if it came into practice and they would still get angry about comments they don't like. |
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12/20/2008 06:44:53 PM · #3 |
I think the tick box is the best idea, but I think the acronym appended to the title will work until that comes around. I would certainly concentrate more of my commenting efforts on those entries that I know desire feedback, and be alerted to not waste the effort on those who don't want the feedback.
Here's how Worth1000 does it:
Feedback wanted:
Feedback not wanted:
Not sure I would use the word "critique", like they do, however. Many of the best comments are not critiques, but just observations or reactions. I like those as well.
Message edited by author 2008-12-20 18:45:20. |
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12/20/2008 07:49:21 PM · #4 |
We've had to hide some of the posts in this thread. Please do not publicly accuse others of rule violations.
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12/20/2008 10:47:31 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by L2:
We've had to hide some of the posts in this thread. Please do not publicly accuse others of rule violations. |
Isn't against the rules to hide posts? ...Doh!
*Art hides behind a post* :P |
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12/20/2008 10:55:32 PM · #6 |
I just joined DPC this month, and it was mainly for the comments to help improve my photography. I was pretty surprised to see numbers like 150 votes, 4 comments.
I personally would welcome the addition of a "comments welcome / desired" standard, good or bad I'd way rather hear it than not! |
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12/20/2008 10:55:40 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by L2:
We've had to hide some of the posts in this thread. Please do not publicly accuse others of rule violations. |
As OP, I'd like to emphatically state that the prupose of this thread was to try to be positive, and look into constructive ways to take the edge off some of the angst that's been displayed lately concerning commenting.
Please be respectful of the concept.
What I'd like to see is those people who would be interested in speaking out as those who have gotten to the point here that they have a thick enough skin to let the negative comments go, and are comfortable enough with their work that regardless of from who or what perspective a comment appears, it affords them the opportunity to discover what reaction their image garners.
I've gotten enough comments on shoehorned entries, or where I just plain missed the mark that I can gauge how far off the mark I was by the comments.
Comments are very helpful, even if someone says they just don't like it because it left them empty of any impression.
That's still a reaction, and if I got that three times out of eight comments, that'd be enough for me to seriously reconsider any entry that I had in a similar theme from then on.
So if you look at that as purely reactive feedback, it's quite helpful.
I'd rather have a "Sorry, just too ordinary." comment, than to just get a 4.3422 with no comments.....though the score kinda tells the story, too.......8>)
I'd just like to get a general concensus as to whether or not there are people who 1. Would be interested in trying this, 2. Would this be something that the folks at SC would see as an example of us out here doing a little research and legwork?
Might be interesting for the membership at large to institute a trial run on this kind of thing.
That's how the side challenges and FSMs, and DPCO work, right?
I don't know how to do scripts or anything, but I don't imagine the success/popularity of something like this would be terribly hard to track, would it?
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12/20/2008 11:31:08 PM · #8 |
NikonJeb, I would be interested...as a newbe I have tried to ask for guidance and got lots of helpful advice...but then it turned into a brew ha ha...many of the members out there are "professional", you eat, sleep and cash your cks at the bank based on this, that is wonderful but the whole point of this is for us amateurs to grow and to learn from you the mentors.
I think that if you vote you should comment as much as possible...although, just recently there was the fill light as a challenge...though I wanted to vote...I obviously don't know enough about fill light to comment, so I was very uncomfortable with voting and commenting on that challenge altogether...now as to the Bokeh...I have looked up articles and done some research, but by reading some of the threads I find that either I do not understand the articles that I have read or some (members) are so stuck on what they think bokeh is that they refuse to bend...I have a photo in that challenge and here are my stats...
Votes: 153
Views: 232
Avg Vote: 4.8824
Comments: 6
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0
Updated: 12/20/08 10:56 pm
I find this to be disturbing that we are part of a forum that is intended to promote growth and expression, yet the members are not willing or we are so intimidated (me) that we do not express our opinions....I have gotten notes back on some of my comments and (with the exception of one, which I screwed up horribly) the people were offended by my opinion...that makes me...step back...I can understand wanting more clarification from someone as to what they saw or didn't see in the photo...but not to the point of making us feel uncomfortable about making our comments. But if we had some box or message that we could ck that would encourage people to to make the comments...I would be for that...maybe the site council needs to increase the minimum votes and make comments part of that minimum requirement as well, otherwise how do I grow with only 6 comments out of 153 votes and 232 views...personally I do not care what the score is...tell me what you do or do not like about the picture...is it blaaaaa, does it pop....or does my composition stink. I don't even care if I get one that states..."thou your photo is good/nice, I like the others better." Then at least I will try to look at the others more closely....
So my vote is yes, to find a better way to get people to comment... |
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12/20/2008 11:55:10 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
I have gotten notes back on some of my comments and (with the exception of one, which I screwed up horribly) the people were offended by my opinion...that makes me...step back...I can understand wanting more clarification from someone as to what they saw or didn't see in the photo...but not to the point of making us feel uncomfortable about making our comments. |
I certainly hope I was that exception and not one of the people that made you feel uncomfortable about it. If I PM someone regarding a negative comment I always try to make sure they know the comment was appreciated. In the case of your comment I was trying to clarify what specific aspect of my entry you were referring to.
I have sometimes left what I thought were some fairly hard comments, but I have never received an angry PM in response to one (so far). I do sometimes receive requests for more explanation of what I was talking about in my comment. That encourages me to keep up the commenting.
Message edited by author 2008-12-20 23:56:17. |
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12/21/2008 12:07:04 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
NikonJeb, I would be interested...as a newbe I have tried to ask for guidance and got lots of helpful advice...but then it turned into a brew ha ha...many of the members out there are "professional", you eat, sleep and cash your cks at the bank based on this, that is wonderful but the whole point of this is for us amateurs to grow and to learn from you the mentors. |
Welcome, and Illegitimati Non Carborundum......don't let 'em wear ya down......8>)
Remember that first and foremost, the comment should be about YOUR impression of the image.
I don't care if you're a first time camera user or a seasoned pro......what *I* want when I proffer an image is to know whether or not I've reached you in any way.....or completely missed.
If you see something that you do particularly like, or don't like, as it affects your view of the image, tell me what that is if you care to....
Lastly, if you see something that strikes you as a flaw, error, oversight, whatever, mention it.......it may have been an intentional technique, or just a mistake, but if you mention it and why you like/hate the flaw, technique, whatever, that is helpful.
It doesn't matter if you have a 4.2 average and have entered one challenge, you still have YOUR views on the image.
Comment away.
Originally posted by Ja-9:
I think that if you vote you should comment as much as possible...although, just recently there was the fill light as a challenge...though I wanted to vote...I obviously don't know enough about fill light to comment, so I was very uncomfortable with voting and commenting on that challenge altogether...now as to the Bokeh...I have looked up articles and done some research, but by reading some of the threads I find that either I do not understand the articles that I have read or some (members) are so stuck on what they think bokeh is that they refuse to bend... |
You can ask.....I have responded to commenters plenty of times whether it was just to say thanks for taking the time to explaining subject and/or techniques. I hate explaining subjects......that usually means I pounded one out into left field! LOL!!!
Originally posted by Ja-9:
I find this to be disturbing that we are part of a forum that is intended to promote growth and expression, yet the members are not willing or we are so intimidated (me) that we do not express our opinions....I have gotten notes back on some of my comments and (with the exception of one, which I screwed up horribly) the people were offended by my opinion...that makes me...step back...I can understand wanting more clarification from someone as to what they saw or didn't see in the photo...but not to the point of making us feel uncomfortable about making our comments. But if we had some box or message that we could ck that would encourage people to to make the comments...I would be for that...maybe the site council needs to increase the minimum votes and make comments part of that minimum requirement as well, otherwise how do I grow with only 6 comments out of 153 votes and 232 views...personally I do not care what the score is...tell me what you do or do not like about the picture...is it blaaaaa, does it pop....or does my composition stink. I don't even care if I get one that states..."thou your photo is good/nice, I like the others better." Then at least I will try to look at the others more closely....
So my vote is yes, to find a better way to get people to comment... |
Okay.....bear in mind that there are ten reasons why people DON'T comment to every one reason TO comment ranging from being uncomfortable all the way out to people like me who have dialup and it's just a chrome plated pain-in-the-@$$.
If you REALLY want comments, particularly on a specific image, start a thread in the Individual Photograph Discussion Forum......and hopefully, you can add an ACW after your challenge title.
As far as specifically seeking out help & guidance, the side challenges are the biggest bang for the buck.
And it is really hard to beat the voting/commenting process to see different points of view on the same theme.
Again, welcome, get out there shoot, enter, vote, & comment......and have fun!
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12/21/2008 09:42:35 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by Ja-9:
I have gotten notes back on some of my comments and (with the exception of one, which I screwed up horribly) the people were offended by my opinion...that makes me...step back...I can understand wanting more clarification from someone as to what they saw or didn't see in the photo...but not to the point of making us feel uncomfortable about making our comments. |
I certainly hope I was that exception and not one of the people that made you feel uncomfortable about it. If I PM someone regarding a negative comment I always try to make sure they know the comment was appreciated. In the case of your comment I was trying to clarify what specific aspect of my entry you were referring to.
I have sometimes left what I thought were some fairly hard comments, but I have never received an angry PM in response to one (so far). I do sometimes receive requests for more explanation of what I was talking about in my comment. That encourages me to keep up the commenting. |
It was not you...so relax...yours is a good example...you just wanted clarification and it made me look at the photo again...a read your comments and see that as a "ahhh" example.... |
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12/21/2008 09:56:09 AM · #12 |
Okay.....bear in mind that there are ten reasons why people DON'T comment to every one reason TO comment ranging from being uncomfortable all the way out to people like me who have dialup and it's just a chrome plated pain-in-the-@$$.
I totally understand that...I have the privelege to work at home so I am at the computer a lot and was just recently doubly blessed by having DSL brought out to our area....
If you REALLY want comments, particularly on a specific image, start a thread in the Individual Photograph Discussion Forum......and hopefully, you can add an ACW after your challenge title.
I will do this...and see what happens....
As far as specifically seeking out help & guidance, the side challenges are the biggest bang for the buck.
And it is really hard to beat the voting/commenting process to see different points of view on the same theme.
my only problem with this...is that a lot of the side challenges (that I have looked at) are not well explained...in other words if you have never done a side challenge there are not enough directions (for me) so I know what to do or how to do it...now I will admit that I can be dumb as post at times but in the ones that have interested me, they haven't been well explained...a lot is taken for granted....while I am at it...there is one thread that I totally do not understand...it is the "pick your favorite from 16/17/22 above..." HOW do you get their photos in that thread...and from what list...I have had a hard time finding my name on a list...I have searched for my name but only that comes up, then I searched for the date and my name isn't there...(now I am admiting to total stupidity)
Again, welcome, get out there shoot, enter, vote, & comment......and have fun! [/quote]
Thank you...many have been kind and have gone out of their way to make me feel welcome...but others have been quite rude....and those unfortunately leave the bad taste in your mouth... |
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12/21/2008 12:51:28 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by Ja-9:
there is one thread that I totally do not understand...it is the "pick your favorite from 16/17/22 above..." HOW do you get their photos in that thread...and from what list... |
That is a question that most of us have to ask it shortly after joining the site. The threads you are referring to are to pick you favorite shot from the person who previously posted. Then the next person to come along will look in your portfolio and post the one they like the best. It's a fun way of finding new stuff, getting some exposure for your pics, and especially seeing what others like that you have done. The numbers are simply new er versions of the thread that are started when the previous one gets too long. Just use the latest one.
To post a thumbnail in a thread, look at the image ID number at the tail end of the URL for the image page. In the comment screen, click the second icon from the right in the line of them above the text box. Paste the image ID in the dialog that comes up.
F'rinstance:
I did like so:
Message edited by author 2008-12-21 12:52:59. |
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12/25/2008 11:23:44 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by Ja-9:
there is one thread that I totally do not understand...it is the "pick your favorite from 16/17/22 above..." HOW do you get their photos in that thread...and from what list... |
That is a question that most of us have to ask it shortly after joining the site... |
I was thinking that very thing myself, thanks for answering, I had no idea what "above" was in reference to! |
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