| Author | Thread |
|
|
04/23/2004 05:04:43 AM · #1 |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 05:46:38 AM · #2 |
| Think most people do know that they shouldn´t store valuable data on CD´s only, but 2 years!!! that´s not much. |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 07:54:34 AM · #3 |
| We ran into that very problem at my office years ago. After researching the issue in depth, we now use Mitsui media exclusively. It's more expensive, but we haven't had a problem since. |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 08:24:15 AM · #4 |
| .....so where is it safe to save? or on what? |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 08:29:20 AM · #5 |
I'm surprised to see the article saying that CD-RW media is less suceptable. Maybe to this type of dye fading, but generally RW media is considered less robust than write once media - unless something has changed.
Maybe we need pigment based CD-Rs :)
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 09:46:43 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by lelani:
.....so where is it safe to save? or on what? |
right!
so, can anyone offer an alternative?
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 09:49:38 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by KarenB:
Originally posted by lelani:
.....so where is it safe to save? or on what? |
right!
so, can anyone offer an alternative? |
Make multiple copies at regular intervals? What a nightmare... |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 09:54:44 AM · #8 |
I found this info for librarians and archivists:
//www.itl.nist.gov/div895/carefordisc/CDandDVDCareandHandlingGuide.pdf
Might be of interest ... expecially the "Do's" and "Don'ts" of storing your CD's & DVD's.
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:01:04 AM · #9 |
I have cd's from almost 3 years ago that are still good. Should I keep reburning them?
This is a bummer!
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:04:40 AM · #10 |
What are the music companys using. Why can't they use a cd like that, I wonder. I have music cd's that are more the 14 years old.
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:04:58 AM · #11 |
Blu-ray technology has my hopes up :)
link to Blue-ray info |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:09:54 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by KarenB:
Originally posted by lelani:
.....so where is it safe to save? or on what? |
so, can anyone offer an alternative? |
You should be able to press the same pattern of bumps and depressions which are on CDs into a clay tablet. Fired clay tablets have documented readability after 4,500 years. |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:13:33 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by KarenB:
Originally posted by lelani:
.....so where is it safe to save? or on what? |
so, can anyone offer an alternative? |
You should be able to press the same pattern of bumps and depressions which are on CDs into a clay tablet. Fired clay tablets have documented readability after 4,500 years. |
ROFL!
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:16:47 AM · #14 |
magnetic tapes are still pretty usable after a long time. But expensive and slow
Hard drives are getting so cheap, its probably worth buying an extra and storing it offsite
As far as CDs go, its a case of don't use cheap CDs for important info. you get what you pay for!!
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:16:56 AM · #15 |
... and this solves the problem .. how?
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:18:18 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by cbonsall:
magnetic tapes are still pretty usable after a long time. But expensive and slow
Hard drives are getting so cheap, its probably worth buying an extra and storing it offsite
As far as CDs go, its a case of don't use cheap CDs for important info. you get what you pay for!! |
true. I use "good" ones (or so I think :P )
I have CD's from 5 years ago that I get data from.
Also, Soni has a point. What is the difference between these and music CD's you buy in a store?
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:23:21 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by KarenB:
Also, Soni has a point. What is the difference between these and music CD's you buy in a store? |
I think the difference is that for music CD's a metallic coating is used, while CD-R use a reflective dye, to be able to write on it. The dye may fade much more easily than the metallic coating. But then, the metal coating can get rusty :-) |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:24:45 AM · #18 |
| This is why I am taking the time to print some of my older photos. I have burned cd̢۪s from 1999 and the images are looking bad on them especially the smaller files. The raw files look ok but the jpgs look bad. |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:26:00 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by KarenB:
... and this solves the problem .. how? |
This isn't a solution at the present time but it will be in the future. At 20 to 50 gigs of storage you can back up entire photo collections with one burn. You can make multiple copies for insurance and update every few years. |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:27:03 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by KarenB:
Also, Soni has a point. What is the difference between these and music CD's you buy in a store? |
Commercially-produced CD's are "pressed" -- the "pits and lands" are physically distinguishable by the laser (as it passes from a low to high point it can "see" the edge or transition).
Recordable CDs of all kinds use a heat-sensitive dye which changes color when exposed by the write-laser. A cooler read-laser then reads the different patches of color as the equivalent of the pits and lands of the regular CD.
For a recordable CD, if the dye changes color enough, the laser won't be able to distinguish the different areas. In a pressed CD, you have to break it or scratch the covering surface so the laser can't get through to see the physical differences in the surface of the coded layer.
For a pressed CD, it might even be possible to de-laminate it and put a new protective layer on, without altering the data on the pressed layer. |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:27:46 AM · #21 |
| As cheap as external hard drives have become why not just buy one and back everything up. |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:30:15 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by connie:
This is why I am taking the time to print some of my older photos. I have burned cd̢۪s from 1999 and the images are looking bad on them especially the smaller files. The raw files look ok but the jpgs look bad. |
A digital image shouldn't start to "look bad" -- the data should either be there in readable form or not. Perhaps you mean weird lines running through them where lines of data are corrupt? Usually though, you can either open the file or not, but there should be no change in the quality of the image -- that's the whole point of the digital medium. |
|
|
|
04/23/2004 10:39:38 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by Seanachai:
As cheap as external hard drives have become why not just buy one and back everything up. |
I have been talking about getting a computer for my daughter, and then letting my son have the old one (oh good Lord! We'd be a 3 computer family! How nuts!)... but now maybe I should commandiere the old one for storage.
although, nothing is a fail-safe.
hmm... I have also been going thru and doing my prints like Connie. Guess I better get crackin'!
Message edited by author 2004-04-23 10:40:15.
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 11:00:54 AM · #24 |
This is certainly a real issue for digital imaging.
If you are doing inkjet printing, with dye based inks, those pictures will probably last 10 years at the outside.
If you are doing printing at sam's club or walmart on their typical one hour processes, I think the lifetime is probably the same - it certainly used to be like that. No doubt things have improved a bit - I haven't checked archival ratings for frontier printers. Fuji Crystal Archive prints with the correct handling should last a lifetime at least though (not stored in sunlight etc)
For digital media, there are several issues.
1/ data formats become obsolete.
It is doubtful you'll find a resonablly easy or low cost way to open and read Canon RAW format files in 20 years time. JPEG and TIFF files may well be slightly longer lived, but will face the same fate. You have to be able to run applications that know how to read/ process/ print the data. Many older data formats are no longer really well supported - try working with early word processor formats for example.
Adobe Photoshop and other proprietary formats face similar problems. Hypothetically, Adobe could go out of business, then in 5 years time you wouldn't be able to open a PSD file - without having an old computer.
2/ media formats become obsolete
Try and find a way to read a 5 1/4" disk drive. Now try and read data on an 8 inch tape. I have information archived on DAT tapes, 5 1/4" floppy drives and 3 1/2" floppy drives that I no longer have drives to actually access that data. This is only after 10 years. I can pay a lot of money to get the data converted to a DVD or CD, but it is certainly a 'special operation' to get access to the data (that may well be unsuable as I don't have applications that can work with it.
It is not unreasonable to assume that in 10 years time, you won't be able to find a CD drive to read those CD-Rs without investing significant time or effort.
50 years time, some people won't even know what CDs were. When was the last time you listened to a wax cylinder on a phonograph ? Many people still remember vinyl records - many more have never even seen one. You can still buy turntables, but as a format it is vanishing quickly. CDs will go the same way.
3/ media degrades
CD-Rs use dye to allow you to write data - it has to be inherently unstable so that your drive can actually change it. Commercial CDs use metal layers to record the data so are more robust. Early commerical CDs are already starting to delaminate/ fall appart.
Under correct storage conditions, good quality CD-Rs can last a long time. Many people opt for the cheapest CD-Rs they can get - which typically use cheaper materials that degrade faster. Most people also do not store them in optimal conditions.
So - your disks will fall appart. IF they don't, you won't be able to find a drive to read the data from. IF you can read the data, you won't be able to do anything with it.
So what's a photographer to do ?
Store your images in industry standard data formats like TIFF or JPEG. If you use photoshop, or other proprietary RAW formats, be aware that these formats may well just dissappear leaving your images unaccessable.
I store a copy of the C code for a RAW reader with every CD I archive.
Migrate your storage to the next best technology in the middle of the lifecycle of the media you are using. For example, I'm moving all of my backed up data on CD to DVD formats. This means I am refreshing the storage of the data, as well as taking advantage of larger capacity storage formats.
Have redundant copies. Anything I actually care about I don't keep on one CD. If that CD fails, the data is lost for good. I make two copies of any backed up data, on high quality media. I also do not store both copies in the same place. Fire damage, water damage, temperature etc are very location specific. I store backups in two different places.
Don't assume harddrives never fail - they always do.
Don't assume CDs never have errors - they are designed to assume that there are always errors, and recover from them.
Don't assume you'll be able to read your files in 10 years
Don't assume you'll be able to read your CDs in 10 years
Message edited by author 2004-04-23 11:01:48.
|
|
|
|
04/23/2004 11:21:40 AM · #25 |
don't forget a firesafe!
personally, i like rotating drives in a raid mirror unit. |
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2025 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 08/03/2025 06:55:03 AM EDT.
