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12/06/2008 05:02:25 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Pull your heads out of the sand ok?
After this, I'm putting the thread on ignore, because honestly, time is better spent elsewhere, but I do need to say this:
As much as some people want to deny it, there is so much anger on this thread that it is almost palpable. I can almost reach out and grab it, like play-doh, and over what?
Some celebrity that may or may not have killed his wife and her boyfriend and then made a bunch of other terrible decisions in his life. The problem is, as much as you wish to believe he did it or not, the only thing you know is what the media fed you during the trial, and what it has fed you since. You don't know any more than that. You weren't there. You weren't a part of it. You don't have the true details. All you have is hollywood, and for some of you that seems to be enough. Quick to lay blame, quick to condemn, quick to lay judgment.
Yet how often do you deign to feel the same kind of anger and judgment for the dozens of crimes that people get away with in your own communities every single year? How often do you write to your local or regional papers to condemn the every day murderers that get off on technicalities? How often do you follow the trials in your own town or city or county and express your condemnation of the people and the system they exploit to go free?
Yet because this person is in the public eye, because the media is drama hungry and beams it to every corner of the country, of the world, suddenly we're so righteous. We feel it's our right and our job to be as loud as we can about these people, these people that we put up on false pedestals and worship for no real reason. We turn them into these giant larger-than-life figures, and then when it goes wrong, we're the first to rip them down.
Has O.J. done terrible things? Yes. Did he murder his wife? Maybe. The point here is that it shouldn't matter to any of us. Not specifically. If you want to be angry or frustrated or condemning, then focus that energy where it would actually matter. Focus it on your local and/or regional courts, politicians, judges, whatever.
It just grinds me to the very core when people simply spew rhetoric time and time again without any real thought to it. Without knowing full stories. Without ever even trying to even begin to understand the complexities of people like this and how they get there.
So do what you will. Fill your forums up with your attacks and vitriol, and then build it up for the next poor false idol that falls. That's your choice. I'll have no more part of it. |
Why are you trying to make it sound like we're on a witch hunt? He was found guilty of several crimes and is going to do the time for it. I don't want to see him killed but if that happens it'll be only one person's fault. Not anyone here but the man himself.
Still waiting for that elusive comment. :)
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12/06/2008 06:13:16 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Pull your heads out of the sand ok?
After this, I'm putting the thread on ignore, because honestly, time is better spent elsewhere, but I do need to say this:
As much as some people want to deny it, there is so much anger on this thread that it is almost palpable. I can almost reach out and grab it, like play-doh, and over what?
Some celebrity that may or may not have killed his wife and her boyfriend and then made a bunch of other terrible decisions in his life. The problem is, as much as you wish to believe he did it or not, the only thing you know is what the media fed you during the trial, and what it has fed you since. You don't know any more than that. You weren't there. You weren't a part of it. You don't have the true details. All you have is hollywood, and for some of you that seems to be enough. Quick to lay blame, quick to condemn, quick to lay judgment.
Yet how often do you deign to feel the same kind of anger and judgment for the dozens of crimes that people get away with in your own communities every single year? How often do you write to your local or regional papers to condemn the every day murderers that get off on technicalities? How often do you follow the trials in your own town or city or county and express your condemnation of the people and the system they exploit to go free?
Yet because this person is in the public eye, because the media is drama hungry and beams it to every corner of the country, of the world, suddenly we're so righteous. We feel it's our right and our job to be as loud as we can about these people, these people that we put up on false pedestals and worship for no real reason. We turn them into these giant larger-than-life figures, and then when it goes wrong, we're the first to rip them down.
Has O.J. done terrible things? Yes. Did he murder his wife? Maybe. The point here is that it shouldn't matter to any of us. Not specifically. If you want to be angry or frustrated or condemning, then focus that energy where it would actually matter. Focus it on your local and/or regional courts, politicians, judges, whatever.
It just grinds me to the very core when people simply spew rhetoric time and time again without any real thought to it. Without knowing full stories. Without ever even trying to even begin to understand the complexities of people like this and how they get there.
So do what you will. Fill your forums up with your attacks and vitriol, and then build it up for the next poor false idol that falls. That's your choice. I'll have no more part of it. |
Hey, feel any way you want, stomp your foot and be mad, but guess what?
We all have a right to our opinion, too.
But I don't have to sit here and have someone tell me I must feel compassion for the man because he gets locked up in a jail cell like an animal and deprived of his freedom.
Guess what? I live by the rules, don't do stupid shit, and I have my freedom.
No, I don't know the details but I know enough to see that the man did enough wrong that he got convicted. I have a hard time buying on any level that he's the victim here.
I relly don't spend any time thinking about it other than a passing conversation in the thread. Why it has to get all personal, get slotted into an us or them category, is beyond me.
But I also get my back up when someone says stupid shit to me like I have no human decency because I don't have compassion for a celebrity who fucked up his life so bad it ended him up in prison for 15 years.
And nobody seems to give a shit about Nicole in that part of the discussion.
So excuse the Hell out of me if I save my sympathy for her, express my satisfaction that they locked up OJ, and then pretty much never think about it again.
Where you're getting resistance is when you tell people that if they don't feel the way you do, that there's something wrong with them.
Stop that, and you won't get the shit handed to you.
And don't tell me what you think I do or don't do here in my own community.....it's none of your fucking business how I live my life.
We're discussing opinions here, not trying to justify our lives....to ANYONE.
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12/06/2008 07:00:39 PM · #78 |
| It's interesting how some people think everything's about them and their little world. |
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12/06/2008 07:05:53 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by fir3bird:
Louis you seem to be preoccupied with god/gods. |
Actually, as an atheist, I'm preoccupied with the hypocrisy of people who act immorally while claiming ultimate moral authority from an imaginary man who lives above the clouds. |
Louis, you're just like a lot of religious people I know. Some of them are always trumpeting their beliefs and some live quietly with them. I guess this works with atheists as you seem to be one of the noisy group. If you had some empathy for those people who were indoctrinated from early childhood, you might change to the quiet group so as not to embarrass them. :P |
Interesting criticism. I accept that I don't live quietly with my lack of belief -- around here, anyway. In this case, though, it seemed to me that some of the vengeful people were those whose faith is openly declared, and I felt the need to call them on what seemed like obvious moral hypocrisy to me. Outside the religion rants, however, I'm not certain I can be accused of brandishing not believing in anything as some kind of club in the same vein for example as HawkeyeLoneWolf, whom you've already mentioned.
Message edited by author 2008-12-06 19:08:39. |
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12/06/2008 08:15:54 PM · #80 |
| All things aside I just had an interesting thought. If you can be found not guilty in a criminal trial but guilty in a civil trial does that work in reverse. In other words if you are found guilty in a criminal trial but then take the case to civil court and are found not guilty would your accuser then be liable to compensate you for your deprivation of liberty while you serve your sentence and any pain and suffering encountered. |
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12/06/2008 09:35:21 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by dzone1:
All things aside I just had an interesting thought. If you can be found not guilty in a criminal trial but guilty in a civil trial does that work in reverse. In other words if you are found guilty in a criminal trial but then take the case to civil court and are found not guilty would your accuser then be liable to compensate you for your deprivation of liberty while you serve your sentence and any pain and suffering encountered. |
This scenario is not possible.. In a "civil" trial, you are not found guilty or innocent.. You're either deemed to be responsible or not responsible for what they are suing you over.. It has nothing to do with criminal courts.. Also, it's more reasonable to be found innocent in a criminal trial where the standards for conviction are much higher and found responsible in a civil trial because the burden of proof is much lower. Also, I believe you only need a majority in a civial trial when in a criminal trial, all the juror's have to agree.. |
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12/06/2008 10:38:41 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by Louis:
It's interesting how some people think everything's about them and their little world. |
Really....
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12/06/2008 10:45:12 PM · #83 |
It seems a little strange to me that you can be found responsible for a crime by, what one could consider a lower court, but not guilty by a more superior criminal court. Isn't it normally the other way around, you have your case heard at a lower court but then appeal to a higher court. It seems in some ways that the lower court is overruling the higher court.
If the burdon of proof is much higher in a criminal trial wouldn't you also think that there is more chance to get to the truth of the matter and that if you have been found not guilty by a criminal court then you could assume you have been found innocent.
I'm not presuming innocence or guilt in this matter it just seems a strange way to run a court system. Basically the accuser has two chances of getting you, if they don't get you in the criminal trial they can go for you in a civil trial.
Never heard of anything like this here. |
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12/06/2008 10:50:23 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by Louis:
[I accept that I don't live quietly with my lack of belief -- around here, anyway. In this case, though, it seemed to me that some of the vengeful people were those whose faith is openly declared, and I felt the need to call them on what seemed like obvious moral hypocrisy to me. Outside the religion rants, however, I'm not certain I can be accused of brandishing not believing in anything as some kind of club in the same vein for example as HawkeyeLoneWolf, whom you've already mentioned. |
Why not?
You make the judgement that people who merely express an opinion are vengeful and tag them as lacking compassion or empathy simply because they don't care one whit about someone like OJ.
How is that different from the way Hawkeye declares everyone who doesn't think like him heathens?
You seem to be pretty much a black or white, no shades of grey, type of person to me.
You've expressed your views on compassion and empathy before and I know I, for one, think differently, and you seem to be pretty scornful about it just because my views differ......or anyone else who doesn't see it the same way as you.
Differing views are just that, and just because you don't share them is no reason to be snide or derisive about it.
Like your little world comment.
Like it or not, I'm in this discussion......I'll stipulate that I don't much care for the ignorant baiting shots you take, but I've been told about calling you out on them. So have a little decency and stick to the issue and not the petty little shots.
I don't think it's all about me. Who are you to say what I think? You don't know, so keep your two-bit comments out of this and be civil.
Yes, I chimed in about that whole hatred and vengeance thing because I'm on the side of the fence that thinks it's a good thing to lock the man up.
That doesn't make me a rabid vengeful person.....or lacking in human decency.
My empathy lies with Nicole and her family.
Let him pay for his crimes.
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12/06/2008 10:57:43 PM · #85 |
| Jeb, you're a hell of a guy to be asking others to be civil. |
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12/06/2008 11:11:11 PM · #86 |
| Sooo, what do you think his first meal in prison was? |
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12/06/2008 11:53:11 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Jeb, you're a hell of a guy to be asking others to be civil. |
I was primarily addressing you for that last little sniping comment.
All I was asking was not to have people say things like "You don't have any compassion or empathy if you don't for OJ.".
That simply isn't true.
It also doesn't carry over to anyone incarcerated......there may be mitigating circumstances when someone's locked up, and no human being was ever intended to be caged, but when you talk about people who rape and murder, I just cannot feel any compassion or empathy for their accountability for their actions. I'm not alone there, either.
I just don't understand the propensity for peopole in these threads to go with this all or nothing kind of attitude.
There are degrees and levels of empathy and compassion. I'm not even asking anyone to accept my views, just acknowledge them without being nasty about it.
Just because some of us are happy that OJ is finally being held accountable does not make us vengeful.
Are you saying that he shouldn't be?
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12/07/2008 12:34:08 AM · #88 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
As an aside, he doesn't directly affect my life, so there's no reason for anger or hatred on my part. Compassion and pity, on the other hand, don't cost anything. |
Ummm...that is the most illogical statement I've ever read on these forums. |
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12/07/2008 01:23:11 AM · #89 |
Originally posted by Jac:
Sooo, what do you think his first meal in prison was? |
Well, You can just bet that he had his first meal prepared to his liking because he is, as you know, OJ, the juice, Simpson. Maybe a little oat meal or rice with dry bread as a way of saying......Welcome aboard OJ, Glad you could make it. Please, make yourself at home...................... Anything else would just not be very darn hospitable.
:)
Message edited by author 2008-12-07 01:29:32. |
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12/07/2008 01:46:40 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by jprezant:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
As an aside, he doesn't directly affect my life, so there's no reason for anger or hatred on my part. Compassion and pity, on the other hand, don't cost anything. |
Ummm...that is the most illogical statement I've ever read on these forums. |
LOL - you're obviously not familiar with my work. ;-) |
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12/07/2008 01:47:58 AM · #91 |
Originally posted by kenskid:
Jail time for saying F**c OJ but not for killing two people?
Originally posted by smardaz:
Originally posted by alky:
Confucious says... F**K OJ! A real man wouldnt be in that situation to begin with! Send us a postcard OJ! |
Classy. People who register just long enough to leave ignorant messages like this might deserve a little jail time too in my opinion. |
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if you read my post i said those kinda people deserve a little jail time TOO.....meaning ALSO...it was also said tongue in cheek.... |
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