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04/21/2004 02:19:08 PM · #1 |
I noticed there are a disproportionate number of ones on the 'flag' shots and some of the religious shots in the Strength challenge. Is it right to vote on a photo based on your political/religious beliefs?
I wouldn't vote for a president based on their looks, why would I vote on art based on it's political message? I̢۪ve never heard anyone say an attribute of good art is to appease the viewers political position.
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04/21/2004 02:31:36 PM · #2 |
I will not vote a photo highly just because I agree with its political stand, it has to be a good photo. The religious symbols gave me a lot of problems because clearly to some this symbols have great meaning but not so much for me. In the end I decided that I really was not in a position to judge the religious photographs since I am lacking in the cultural background to do so. This is not to say that religious art can not appeal to all, much of it does. But to score the photos that I knew I would see much differently then both the photographers and many others on this site seemed to be a poor idea, so I abstained from voting on any of theses photos. In this way I did not raise or lower their scores based on my own bias.
In the end each of us has to choose how to handle this situation on their own.
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04/21/2004 02:32:08 PM · #3 |
I agree with you, being a Christian when I see the cross it deffenitly speaks to me, but yet there are alot of badly taken pictures of crosses. When I see a pic with a cross as the main subject I try to look at it as just a photo, because yes the cross does sybolize, to me, the ultimate strength, but just beacuse you take a snap-shot of one doesn't mean I'm going to give you an 8 for it. I think this some what applies for nudes, done well they are great pieces of work, but when someone does it in the hopes that more of the voters will just be horny guys and will rate it high and boost their score. That is wrong, and I think those shots get a lesser score from me all the time, again unless they are done well. This goes all the way down the board, flags, "cute babies", crosses (anything religious), nudes, ect... This is my thought, maybe someone else disagrees with me and that is fine, just wish more people would get more creative, and less for the "safe bet shot"
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04/21/2004 02:34:18 PM · #4 |
Like it or not, some people will vote down [(edit)or up] a "political/religious" photograph because of that fact alone. In a previous thread off the subject Clarney stated that he would not vote on any 'flag' photo... I applauded that sentiment, rather than vote on socio/political beliefs just vote on the merit of the photo. If you can't do that, just don't vote on the photo. Having said this I'm quite sure there will be some comments on "How dare I tell someone else how to vote." But, as a bartender,I've learned to try not to argue politics or religion. You just can't win. ;)
Message edited by author 2004-04-21 14:35:36. |
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04/21/2004 02:38:07 PM · #5 |
Most of those 'flag' photos sucked. I think I saw only two that were well executed.
That's also the thing with churches, crosses and graveyards. Most of the time there is nothing interesting about them, no creativity whatsoever.
Edit: I rated them for what they were worth, just like any other photo and I don't do many ones, two's or threes.
Message edited by author 2004-04-21 14:41:40.
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04/21/2004 02:41:10 PM · #6 |
It happens all the time. Check the 1s on this one I did for "Trends" challenge. Many people on this site hate the symbol of the USA or Christianity or both. Just a fact, nothing we can do about it.
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04/21/2004 02:50:52 PM · #7 |
| Vtruan, here's my two cents on your 'flag' picture for the "Trends" contest. In and of itself, it's a pretty darn good image, so it's a 5 or 6 right out of the box. That said, I don't think it really captures the TREND of patriotism that swept over the USA after 9/11. A picture of a row of houses each with a 'flag', or one of those cars that had 4, 5, or more flags on them, or a crowd shot with flags everywhere, would have better illustrated a TREND towards patriotism (if you want to use flags to make the point). Just as a picture of a single cross would hardly represent a TREND toward growth in church attendance, your picture, fine as it is, doesn't represent the theme to me. I like the picture but don't think it met the challenge. JMHO! Of course, there's no way it deserves a 1 or 2. |
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04/21/2004 03:00:48 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by vtruan:
It happens all the time. Check the 1s on this one I did for "Trends" challenge. Many people on this site hate the symbol of the USA or Christianity or both. Just a fact, nothing we can do about it.
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The 'flag' photos have an element to them that makes it hard to give high votes to. The photographer did not design the 'flag'. From the discussions from some of them I am not sure they even fully realize why this country is so great. In the end a photo of the 'flag' is a pretty easy shot and it is forgivable that a number of people whan to see more then a photo of one country's 'flag'. If the photo is truly good then I will vote it high, but I will not vote it high just because it happens to be my 'flag'. As for the 1 votes, I would not have voted your photo a 1, it is clearly not at all close to that bad, however when you use this forum to push your ideals don̢۪t act shocked with others vote based on theirs. Do remember that we are a global community and it is understandable that many are getting more then a little tired of us pushing our view of life onto them.
We dominate in so much, is it surprising that you might get some backlash?
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04/21/2004 03:16:36 PM · #9 |
It's just a fact of the world we are living in today. George Bush and his administration are seen as arrogant and self-serving. For some reason many people around the world equate all Americans and their symbols with the current administration; this is a sad but true fact.
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04/21/2004 03:18:25 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by orussell:
For some reason many people around the world equate all Americans and their symbols with the current administration; this is a sad but true fact. |
Perhaps the tradition of Pledging Allegiance to it every morning has something to do with that impression ... |
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04/21/2004 03:27:24 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by orussell:
It's just a fact of the world we are living in today. George Bush and his administration are seen as arrogant and self-serving. For some reason many people around the world equate all Americans and their symbols with the current administration; this is a sad but true fact. |
Another reason to hate the right wing. I'm guessing 'flag' photos scored high when Clinton was president.
To keep this from becoming a rant let's try to keep politics out of it. |
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04/21/2004 03:28:34 PM · #12 |
I agree the shot deserved the 5+ that it received. But the 1s prove a point, that people don't always vote on the photograph itself. Some vote on ideas or philosophy that they agree with or disagree with.
Another thought, maybe other countries citizens aren't as proud of their country as we are. I don't consider it arrogant being proud of your heritage, religion, country, etc. That's what part of our life is about, at least to me. Van
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04/21/2004 03:29:32 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by louddog:
To keep this from becoming a rant let's try to keep politics out of it. |
I agree there's plenty of Rants already, but I'm curious as to how you plan to discuss the symbolic use of the 'flag' as a photographic subject without discussing politics. :) |
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04/21/2004 03:33:21 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by orussell:
It's just a fact of the world we are living in today. George Bush and his administration are seen as arrogant and self-serving. For some reason many people around the world equate all Americans and their symbols with the current administration; this is a sad but true fact. |
Another reason to hate the right wing. I'm guessing 'flag' photos scored high when Clinton was president.
To keep this from becoming a rant let's try to keep politics out of it. |
Well you know if George W. didn't fanagle his way into office because of the Florida snafu, and Gore got was rightfully his, we might not be seeing some of the strife in the world today. And what's sad, it all stems from greed and that's why the rest of the world is so alienated.
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04/21/2004 03:41:35 PM · #15 |
I got a low score for this photo, which I felt captured chaos pretty well. I suppose I knew it would not score very high, but I was hoping for more comment on it in regards to the challenge. Did it score low because of the topic or because it's a bad photo?
I have a deep faith, and so the photo meant something to me - but my whole point in posting something like that here is to find out if it has merits as a photo... both to those who share my faith and those who don't.
Chaos entry |
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04/21/2004 03:48:02 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by jpochard:
I got a low score for this photo, which I felt captured chaos pretty well. I suppose I knew it would not score very high, but I was hoping for more comment on it in regards to the challenge. Did it score low because of the topic or because it's a bad photo?
I have a deep faith, and so the photo meant something to me - but my whole point in posting something like that here is to find out if it has merits as a photo... both to those who share my faith and those who don't.
Chaos entry |
I thought this was a very powerful shot. I gave it above average marks. I probably would have given it higher marks without the red tone in it. If you were going for sepia here, I think you missed it by just a little. Hope this is helpful. :-)
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04/21/2004 03:51:32 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by orussell:
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by orussell:
It's just a fact of the world we are living in today. George Bush and his administration are seen as arrogant and self-serving. For some reason many people around the world equate all Americans and their symbols with the current administration; this is a sad but true fact. |
Another reason to hate the right wing. I'm guessing 'flag' photos scored high when Clinton was president.
To keep this from becoming a rant let's try to keep politics out of it. |
Well you know if George W. didn't fanagle his way into office because of the Florida snafu, and Gore got was rightfully his, we might not be seeing some of the strife in the world today. And what's sad, it all stems from greed and that's why the rest of the world is so alienated. |
I can't even remember how many times I have heard this nonsense that Pres Bush stole the election in Florida, but what I do remember is that several anti-Bush media groups went down there after it was all over and spent millions of dollars to recount the votes. Try as they might they were never able to show Gore as the winner.
So unless you can link to the data showing that Gore won the recount I trust you will stop clinging to this nonsense.
Roger |
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04/21/2004 03:54:23 PM · #18 |
| I think it is perhaps too easy to blame low scores for Stars and Stripes pics on generalised 'US-bashing'. I always feel ambivalent to any 'flag'-waving as there has been the odd historical occasion where patriotism and nationalism have become confused. As an Englishman, I have seen the St. George cross appropriated by football hooligans and neo-Nazis, and only recently regaining some of its prestige through the Rugby World Cup victory:) As an Englishman abroad, I have seen how the Scottish Saltire is intimately associated with the quest for independence/devolution from English rule. What i am saying is don't be surprised if not everyone scores a 10 for a photo of cultural baggage. We live in an infinitely complex world...there are plenty of non-'flag', non-cross, 'universal human experience' photos out there waiting to be taken. |
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04/21/2004 03:59:34 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by bpickard:
I think it is perhaps too easy to blame low scores for Stars and Stripes pics on generalised 'US-bashing'. I always feel ambivalent to any 'flag'-waving as there has been the odd historical occasion where patriotism and nationalism have become confused. As an Englishman, I have seen the St. George cross appropriated by football hooligans and neo-Nazis, and only recently regaining some of its prestige through the Rugby World Cup victory:) As an Englishman abroad, I have seen how the Scottish Saltire is intimately associated with the quest for independence/devolution from English rule. What i am saying is don't be surprised if not everyone scores a 10 for a photo of cultural baggage. We live in an infinitely complex world...there are plenty of non-'flag', non-cross, 'universal human experience' photos out there waiting to be taken. |
Well said.
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04/21/2004 04:03:21 PM · #20 |
Again, let's keep politics out of this. Go start a post in the Rant forum if you want to push an agenda.
I simply asked if people thought it was right or wrong to vote on art based on political/religious beliefs. Not what those political positions are!
Message edited by author 2004-04-21 16:05:04. |
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04/21/2004 04:20:59 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Again, let's keep politics out of this. Go start a post in the Rant forum if you want to push an agenda.
I simply asked if people thought it was right or wrong to vote on art based on political/religious beliefs. Not what those political positions are! |
Is there a difference between giving a 'flag' or a cross a '1' because you are offended by such flags or crosses symbolize and giving a pile of excrement a '1' because you are offended by piles of excrement? Maybe to the photographer, a pile of excrement symbolizes strength. Or strength of odor as the case may be. Should that image also be voted soley on the quality of the photograph?
Personally, I think the subject is one of the most important parts of a photograph. Sure exceptional shot can be taken of mundane subjects and crappy shots can be taken of spectacular subjects. But ultimately, the subject is what has to hold the candle. If the subject disturbs you, be it a 'flag', a religious symbol, or crap, then the photo will not appeal to you. (But a 1 for that reason only is pretty lame).
As a nationally know example, I have great admiration of Mapplethorpes photography. However, I have zero interest in his whips in the butt series. It just doesn't appeal to me. The photos are wonderfully composed and superbly lit. But I don't like them. The Calla Lily photographs do appeal to me though. The only difference is the subject.
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04/21/2004 04:21:29 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by orussell:
I thought this was a very powerful shot. I gave it above average marks. I probably would have given it higher marks without the red tone in it. If you were going for sepia here, I think you missed it by just a little. Hope this is helpful. :-) |
Thanks. May I ask (you can pm me the answer if you want) if the strength of the photo was because you share the faith or because of the expression, composition, etc. of the photo conveyed the theme - or both? This would be helpful to me. The lighting for that scene was a much deeper, darker red - which didn't photograph well I changed it to b/w and added back in some tint. Because I was also shooting the photos for someone in the production, I wanted to maintain a bit of the red to keep close to what was shown during production.
I find that if I have a strong aversion to a particular photo because of the subject, I do not vote. I might comment, but no vote; and it doesn't have to be a political or religious subject. |
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04/21/2004 04:24:01 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Again, let's keep politics out of this. Go start a post in the Rant forum if you want to push an agenda.
I simply asked if people thought it was right or wrong to vote on art based on political/religious beliefs. Not what those political positions are! |
Politics have nothing to do with flags!
Political beliefs don't know borders,they are transnational and trans-gender!
BTW
American 'flag' is not owned by the Republicans !
Message edited by author 2004-04-21 16:32:29. |
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04/21/2004 04:43:34 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Trinch:
(But a 1 for that reason only is pretty lame.) |
Thanks, exactly the type of response I was looking for when I posted this.
Is it or is it not lame to give a shot a one because you disagree with the religous/political/ethical/whatever connotations of a picture?
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04/21/2004 04:49:26 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by louddog:
Originally posted by Trinch:
(But a 1 for that reason only is pretty lame.) |
Thanks, exactly the type of response I was looking for when I posted this.
Is it or is it not lame to give a shot a one because you disagree with the religous/political/ethical/whatever connotations of a picture? |
You know, there was much more to my post than just that line. ;)
But what I said is true. A '1' for that reason only is lame, however, I do understand scoring a few points lower if the subject doesn't appeal to you, or worse, offends you.
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