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 04/19/2004 08:25:40 PM · #26
Being from CO, I have seen this mag before. (from below) twice a year publication, not sure on the numbers that they publish, but ay be something to ask. If they do a large printing, then it should cost them more.
"Steamboat Publications, Inc. offers a variety of opportunities for reaching Steamboat lovers locally, nationally and internationally. Steamboat Magazine, our flagship publication, is the heirloom quality full color magazine published twice per year since 1978... Finally, allaboutsteamboat.com is now online and planned to be the most comprehensive source of Steamboat information yet"
Sounds like they are moving onto the web more also...so.
Not to mention that it is a tourist/skiing area, so I think the publishers (Chamber of COmmerce?) have some money, and may be pulling your leg. ???

Message edited by author 2004-04-19 20:27:11.
 04/19/2004 08:51:12 PM · #27
Originally posted by dacrazyrn:
Being from CO, I have seen this mag before. (from below) twice a year publication, not sure on the numbers that they publish, but ay be something to ask. If they do a large printing, then it should cost them more.
"Steamboat Publications, Inc. offers a variety of opportunities for reaching Steamboat lovers locally, nationally and internationally. Steamboat Magazine, our flagship publication, is the heirloom quality full color magazine published twice per year since 1978... Finally, allaboutsteamboat.com is now online and planned to be the most comprehensive source of Steamboat information yet"
Sounds like they are moving onto the web more also...so.
Not to mention that it is a tourist/skiing area, so I think the publishers (Chamber of COmmerce?) have some money, and may be pulling your leg. ???


Thanks for the info.

I understand... however this is going to be used in a advertisement for their magazine in a program for Strings in the Mountains concert this summer. They are going to send me a copy. I have accepted their offer and sent them a contract regarding the use and the inclusion of my copyright.
I think I probably could've negotiated for more. I think stock photos probably go for $100 and more.
I will most likely kick myself later, but I can also add them to my portfolio, which is awesome for me.
Thank you - everyone - for your responses and good wishes!
I'll scan the program and post it when I get it :)

04/20/2004 07:38:19 AM · #28
Originally posted by SharQ:
Originally posted by Kavey:
Protecting copyright is always hard but is a separate issue to that of pricing I think.


Not really - protecting yourself against rights-grabs is vitally important, but not that difficult. Keeping the copyright is the norm, rather than the exception. If they want the copyright, walk away.

h


You miss the point. Legally establishing copyright is not complicated. Practically guarding against copyright theft is what I feel can be more difficult. I.e. Karen can specify that she is selling single-use rights but once she has sent them a high resolution digital file it becomes harder for her to enforce the copyright given the high costs of suing against infringement should it occur.

So that's what I meant by saying pricing (including Karen's decision on what rights she is selling) is one issue.

Protecting against deliberate copyright theft is another.

Personally, unless Karen believes the image is such a commercially viable one that she will be able to generate significant income from it in the future I would go ahead and sell single-use rights, explain the copyright issue to the purchaser and trust that they will respect the copyright.
 04/20/2004 01:25:46 PM · #29
pooey.. this is going sour.

________________________________________________________________
#1

Thank you, Ms. Olsen, for your quick response.
>> This is agreeable.
>> I would also, however, like to have my name, and if possible my website
>> (//karenb.dpcprints.com), mentioned as credit for the photo in the
>> brochure... and yes, I'd love a copy.
>> To be certain, this (//www.dpcprints.com/print.php?IMAGE_ID=44666) is
>> the image we are agreeing on.
>>
>> Please send payment to:
>>
>> Karen P. Bryan
>>address>>
>> along with the following contract with signature, and I will email the
> file
>> to you.
>>
>> Thank you very much!
>>
>>
>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> ________
>>
>> Contract
>>
>> I, the undersigned, acting as representative for Steamboat Magazine,
>> Steamboat Springs, Colorado, have purchased one printable file entitled
>> "Romeo & Juliet Love Theme (A Time for Us)" from Karen P. Bryan of
>> MA who is the photographer. I understand that the photograph is being
>> purchased for the express purpose of running an advertisement in the
> Strings
>> in the Mountains program during the summer of 2004. This is a limited run,
>> and will not be used without further permission from Karen P. Bryan in any
>> other publication including but not limited to websites, magazines and
>> brochures. Karen P. Bryan retains all rights to the photograph. "© Karen
> P.
>> Bryan Photography" will accompany the print in the brochure.
>>
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________
>> Deborah Olsen
>> Publisher
>> Steamboat Magazine
>> PO Box 881659
>> Steamboat Springs, CO 80488
>> 970-871-9413
>>
>> Dated: ________________________________

#2

In order to get advance payment to you in a timely fashion, I am going to
> have to put it on a charge card. Otherwise, FedEx is the only option. Can I
> please charge it to you? We need to get this ad to press yet this week.
> Thanks!
> deb

#3

Ms. Olsen,
>
> Unfortunately I am not set up to accept credit card payments.
>
> FedEx might be the answer to include the signed contract and check/money
> order.
> Alternately, you could fax the signed contract to 781- attention
> Karl Bryan, and use
> Western Union (//www.westernunion.com/info/howToSendMoneyTransfer.asp)
> which will allow you to send a payment using your credit card.
>
> Please be informed that any additional fees are the responsibility of
> Steamboat Magazine.
>
> Let me know if this helps.
>
> Karen

#4

We'll get by with the low-res image. I an not willing to incur a 25%
surcharge for Western Union. We'll mail you a check and drop the high-res
scan in when we get it. If it doesn't come on time, then the low-res will
have to do.
I work with photographers all over the world. In fact, I am the photo editor
for an internationally renowned wildlife photographer, who works regularly
with National Geographic, Lonely Planet, Getty Images, etc. This is the
first time in more than 30 years in this industry that I have heard for a
photographer asking for payment out front.
Please plan to email the image as soon as you receive the check. It is going
to require a high-speed connection.
Thank you,

Deborah Olsen
Publisher

#5
Perhaps this is from my naivete of the system, as I am new to the business.
You must understand, however, that one must be careful when sending out
their images.
I do not see a problem. I am sorry that you evidentally do.
I have a high speed connection, so again, that is not a problem.
I am wondering, since you are so experienced, what the usual protocol is.
I usually collect payment from portrait clients, as I am a portrait
photographer, prior to giving them their portrait packages.
Thank you.
Karen

__________________________________________________

I am posting this because it is a learning experience for me.
I don't like how it is proceeding. My inner "watch out" flag is raised.
Anyone with experience with this?
Also, any suggestions/comments? What did I do wrong? If anything?

Message edited by author 2004-04-20 13:28:39.
 04/20/2004 01:43:41 PM · #30
Originally posted by KarenB:
pooey.. this is going sour.



stick with it :) Getting something in print is great for your portfolio.

and just remember she is the photo editor
for an internationally renowned wildlife photographer, who works regularly
with National Geographic, Lonely Planet, Getty Images, blah, blah, blah, blah

LOL, sounds like she is trying to meet her deadline and getting a little cranky. Good Luck
 04/20/2004 01:46:28 PM · #31
The publications i have been involved with over the years have a way of doing business, and are copyright concious (for their own sakes of course, so they respect those of others).

Having a hi-res image is a 'duh' - they'll need that for printing, one time use or not does not matter. get a print at walmart, they can scan it and use it all they want, so the resolution issue is a non issue.

The credit should not be a big deal. If you are retiaining copyright then that 'c' and your anme should be in small print along the side of the image (usually) or credited elsewhere.

news and non-profit pubs can usually re-use images as long as credit is given. sometimes written permission is needed, but when you ask they'll ususally just say 'give credit on the work to the author/source'.

As to needing payment first...they have their usual ways of doing business. And that would be to be billed and then pay the bill in 30 or 60 days. Just like anything else a business buys.

Find out who to bill, send the pic via email with an email invoice, and follow it all up with a letter, invoice, and copy of the pic to whomever they said to send the bill to.

Congrats!

chris
 04/20/2004 01:50:23 PM · #32
good advice.. thanks!
 04/20/2004 01:52:25 PM · #33
I would just make certain you get the credit for the photo, 50 dollars and free advertising! Well done!


04/20/2004 04:27:06 PM · #34
Her emails certainly suggest that she and the offer are legit BUT also raise my hackles big time.

Her paragraph:

I work with photographers all over the world. In fact, I am the photo editor for an internationally renowned wildlife photographer, who works regularly with National Geographic, Lonely Planet, Getty Images, etc. This is the first time in more than 30 years in this industry that I have heard for a photographer asking for payment out front.

... comes across as arrogant, unecessarily aprubt and like someone who is too used to getting her own way.

Personally on receiving such a rude reply I'd just tell them to forget it regardless of the exposure and the $50.

But that's just me - I don't respond well to people who throw their "authority" around.
 04/20/2004 05:06:54 PM · #35
As long as you get a clear contract stating a one time non exclusive use, I would not worry about timing of payment.

I am in contact with a company that wants to include some of my images in a book. All they are offering is a credit in the book and 3 copies of the book itself. And the contract clearly states a one time usage for the book, which is a very limited edition.

I still want to go ahead, have to start somewhere, get some exposure. It is a choice between credit, 3 books and exposure, or nothing at all.

So, I would go for it. Get some experience as well in handling these kind of deals, as practice for later. (for the big money .....).
I would not let it go sour, even if they seem arrogant, unless you have the feeling they are dishonnest.


04/20/2004 05:28:05 PM · #36
Thanks Karen for this thread and the many who offer advice. I've been approached by someone who's interested in a one-time use of one of my shots and I need to get educated really quick.

04/20/2004 05:30:39 PM · #37
I'd pick up the phone.

Email conversations like this have a way of escalating for no good reason.
She's no doubt under time pressure for a copy deadline and a protracted email thread about sending payment prior to getting the high res image she needs in a hurry, probably doesn't help.


04/20/2004 05:34:47 PM · #38
Originally posted by Kavey:
Her emails certainly suggest that she and the offer are legit BUT also raise my hackles big time.

Her paragraph:

I work with photographers all over the world. In fact, I am the photo editor for an internationally renowned wildlife photographer, who works regularly with National Geographic, Lonely Planet, Getty Images, etc. This is the first time in more than 30 years in this industry that I have heard for a photographer asking for payment out front.

... comes across as arrogant, unecessarily aprubt and like someone who is too used to getting her own way.

Personally on receiving such a rude reply I'd just tell them to forget it regardless of the exposure and the $50.

But that's just me - I don't respond well to people who throw their "authority" around.


I've been on the site council for over a year, and have never once heard someone suggest throwing away good money and exposure because of a bad attitude from the other person!
 04/20/2004 05:50:54 PM · #39
--

Message edited by author 2004-04-20 17:51:44.
 04/20/2004 05:52:09 PM · #40
Originally posted by Konador:
I've been on the site council for over a year, and have never once heard someone suggest throwing away good money and exposure because of a bad attitude from the other person!


Hey, I did say "that's just me"...
Like I said, I just don't respond well to the kind of attitude that I am reading into that latest response.
It's up to any individual to weigh up the benefits of exposure and money against their personal feelings about how rude or not rude they find that response.
Someone else may just read it as affronted and businessy - I read it as sulky and rude.

EDIT: Or were you taking the pee with that little dropping of being on the SC for over a year? (since I'm not seeing the relevance of SC to this)
 04/20/2004 05:54:43 PM · #41
I was just doing what you hate to annoy you... hehehe
 04/20/2004 05:58:09 PM · #42
Originally posted by Konador:
I was just doing what you hate to annoy you... hehehe


Good, glad I caught it in time! LOL
 04/20/2004 05:59:36 PM · #43
What are nephews for if they don't annoy their aunts? :P
 04/20/2004 06:03:13 PM · #44
For bloody getting on the train damnit and VISITING their aunts???
 04/20/2004 06:06:55 PM · #45
Most aunts would be considerate and live nearer their young, poor, non-independant nephews :(
 04/20/2004 06:11:08 PM · #46
Aunts will send cost of train fare to snivelling nephew searching for excuses not to visit. What's the next excuse? :oP

Although it will have to be summer when aunt gets back to UK from Africa and snivelling nephew is on summer break.

OK enough of boring and confusing the poor readers of DPC with our inanity.... I'm off to bed!

GOOD NIGHT!
 04/20/2004 06:38:11 PM · #47
Okay, I went out on a limb.
I phoned her, she emailed back, I sent the image in good faith..she said they are cutting a check for me today.
Like I said, if nothing else, this is a learning experience for me. :)
 04/20/2004 06:50:49 PM · #48
I assume you want payment upfront in case they use your photo without paying you? From her point of view, an unknown photographer (as in not a hugely famous one) wants to be paid up front before they will send an image? In both cases there is a matter of faith.

Glad to see you got it sorted.
 04/20/2004 07:05:59 PM · #49
Originally posted by KarenB:
Okay, I went out on a limb.
I phoned her, she emailed back, I sent the image in good faith..she said they are cutting a check for me today.
Like I said, if nothing else, this is a learning experience for me. :)

I think things will be just fine ... the publishing, music, film businesses all have their own arcane rules and rituals, and nothing here sounds unusual to me, except maybe the part about paying you up-front; I'm sure most photograpgers DO get paid 30-60 days down the line. As long as you can establish that they are a legitimate publication (ISSN number registered and maybe a mailing permit from the USPS should be easy clues to find), I would have no hesitation about letting them use one of my photos (if I ever take one worth printing).

The ONLY thing I see "wrong" is that you should always use the term "license" in your contract, never the word "sell," even if followed by other conditions and stipulations. It makes things much less likely to be confused or debatable later.

I suggest you take the $50 and invest in a copy of one of the handbooks for commercial photographers I've seen referenced in other threads. Check at Nolo Press to see what they have available -- they often have downloadable forms for a variety of legal uses; they may have a fill-in-the-blank license available, and are your best source for all kinds of legal info for things you can do yourself.

Congratulations! Be sure to post a picture of the finished cover when you get it.
 04/20/2004 08:14:09 PM · #50
Whoooo this is big situation:O)
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