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11/14/2008 12:38:16 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
I still have my darkroom stuff (its all boxed up at the moment waiting for our future house expansion). I am so looking forward to getting it set back up. I am currently shopping around for a desktop film developer. Not sure I'll get back into doing my own color printing (I'll probably scan that). Part of it is also I miss my Pentax 645, and since used lenses have plummeted in price, I can get a pretty sweet set up on the cheap (well, compared to five years ago). I still want to upgrade my DSLR- which will probably happen in about six months, but I also want to get back into some "wet" photography. |
yeah prices for medium format bodies are really low compared to how unaffordable they were some years ago. i.e. you can get a mamiya m645 body with 120/220 film backs, metering finder and the 80mm "kit" lens for way under 600 bucks (on ebay). on the downside chemicals, paper and films are rather expensive these days.
i too can't wait to finally getting started!
@k10dguy: don't worry man it's all in a good manner.
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11/14/2008 01:31:27 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Mephisto:
Originally posted by vxpra:
I still have my darkroom stuff (its all boxed up at the moment waiting for our future house expansion). I am so looking forward to getting it set back up. I am currently shopping around for a desktop film developer. Not sure I'll get back into doing my own color printing (I'll probably scan that). Part of it is also I miss my Pentax 645, and since used lenses have plummeted in price, I can get a pretty sweet set up on the cheap (well, compared to five years ago). I still want to upgrade my DSLR- which will probably happen in about six months, but I also want to get back into some "wet" photography. |
yeah prices for medium format bodies are really low compared to how unaffordable they were some years ago. i.e. you can get a mamiya m645 body with 120/220 film backs, metering finder and the 80mm "kit" lens for way under 600 bucks (on ebay). on the downside chemicals, paper and films are rather expensive these days.
i too can't wait to finally getting started!
@k10dguy: don't worry man it's all in a good manner. |
Well, some of you are in a good manner. Others? Not so sure ;)
I would love to get into Medium Format film myself. I have my eye on a Pentax 67 (or even a Pentax 645nII). The only worry I have is that eventually film manufactures will stop manufacturing film. I don't know that it's soon, but it will happen.
Unless, that is, more people want to get into medium format and keep it alive, or digital medium format never comes down further in cost. heh.
Last thing I want to do is invest a couple grand into a medium format system and then oops, can't buy film anymore. |
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11/14/2008 01:39:10 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Mephisto:
Originally posted by vxpra:
I still have my darkroom stuff (its all boxed up at the moment waiting for our future house expansion). I am so looking forward to getting it set back up. I am currently shopping around for a desktop film developer. Not sure I'll get back into doing my own color printing (I'll probably scan that). Part of it is also I miss my Pentax 645, and since used lenses have plummeted in price, I can get a pretty sweet set up on the cheap (well, compared to five years ago). I still want to upgrade my DSLR- which will probably happen in about six months, but I also want to get back into some "wet" photography. |
yeah prices for medium format bodies are really low compared to how unaffordable they were some years ago. i.e. you can get a mamiya m645 body with 120/220 film backs, metering finder and the 80mm "kit" lens for way under 600 bucks (on ebay). on the downside chemicals, paper and films are rather expensive these days.
i too can't wait to finally getting started!
@k10dguy: don't worry man it's all in a good manner. |
Well, some of you are in a good manner. Others? Not so sure ;)
I would love to get into Medium Format film myself. I have my eye on a Pentax 67 (or even a Pentax 645nII). The only worry I have is that eventually film manufactures will stop manufacturing film. I don't know that it's soon, but it will happen.
Unless, that is, more people want to get into medium format and keep it alive, or digital medium format never comes down further in cost. heh.
Last thing I want to do is invest a couple grand into a medium format system and then oops, can't buy film anymore. |
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
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11/14/2008 01:40:55 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
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11/14/2008 01:43:58 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
I much prefer the Mamiya RB/RZ system. |
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11/14/2008 01:48:39 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
I much prefer the Mamiya RB/RZ system. |
I can buy 3 different Pentax 67 cameras and two 645n cameras locally. I've never seen a Mamiya locally, hence "easiest to get started in". Also, both systems are world renowned. |
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11/14/2008 01:52:29 PM · #32 |
I, too, still have my darkroom gear, my 4x5 view camera, and my 30+ year old film SLR. As someone said earlier: the darkroom experience is unrivaled. The isolation from the external environment, the hands-on nature of the work, the fine quality of the negative and the depth of image on silver gelatin emulsion paper -- I hope to also be able to do all of this again someday. Film disappearing the way it is, though (I miss readyload and polaroid--4x5 won't be the same without them) makes it problematic to do on a regular basis. I might end up working at a Renaissance Festival someday, I guess: "Then I just pop 'er in the fixer, guvna..."
Digital to me, is actually slightly more "dangerous" than 35mm film was: it is SO easy to point, shoot, point, shoot and come home with LOTS of mediocre images. 4x5 was a slow process, suited for my slow-witted nature. Because each image took so long to set up, and you weren't carrying enough film to take 100 or more shots, you took your time choosing what to shoot, how to shoot, composing, etc.
Now that I am doing digital work, I find it tempting to press the shutter and move on--rather than ruminate on the composition in the field, I can fire off one at a wider angle and crop later on. So I have to force myself to to slow down. While I love the portability of the camera, I find that using a tripod consistently will slow down the set up enough so that I think about it more.
However, those "elements of danger" are really my own limitations of thinking--there is nothing in the format itself that constrains me to shoot quickly or thoughtlessly. Quite the opposite: digital allows me to do both: be methodical and deliberate when I have time and the subject matter permits, and to be fast and moving from shot to shot when I want to. Film and Silver Gelatin paper can produce superior b/w images, but digital can produce images that would otherwise be impossible.
So for me it is not digital versus film, it is digital and film.
And a word of warning to the person looking to begin film/darkroom work: when your print comes up in the developer, you will be addicted. Withdrawal is slow and painful, and you will be in danger of relapse forever--see my first sentence :-)
Message edited by author 2008-11-14 13:54:47. |
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11/14/2008 01:54:12 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
I much prefer the Mamiya RB/RZ system. |
I can buy 3 different Pentax 67 cameras and two 645n cameras locally. I've never seen a Mamiya locally, hence "easiest to get started in". Also, both systems are world renowned. |
The Mamiyas are quite popular, you may just have to look a bit harder. Another alternative is Hasselblad. They are more expensive, but, they'll last forever and generally hold their value better. |
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11/14/2008 01:54:58 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
The 645 system has swappable film backs. 120/220. Also, it (is) was a very popular system. I have to believe that eventually someone will create a digital back.
The 6x7 you're out of luck. |
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11/14/2008 01:56:36 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
I much prefer the Mamiya RB/RZ system. |
I can buy 3 different Pentax 67 cameras and two 645n cameras locally. I've never seen a Mamiya locally, hence "easiest to get started in". Also, both systems are world renowned. |
The Mamiyas are quite popular, you may just have to look a bit harder. Another alternative is Hasselblad. They are more expensive, but, they'll last forever and generally hold their value better. |
even if you eventually don't want to (or can't) use them for film, you will likely be able to get an interchangeable digital-back for them--biggo buckos, but possible..... |
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11/14/2008 02:13:48 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
The 645 system has swappable film backs. 120/220. Also, it (is) was a very popular system. I have to believe that eventually someone will create a digital back.
The 6x7 you're out of luck. |
Quoting myself- a new low.
My wife just pointed out that a few years ago I showed her an ad for a company that was announcing a digital back for the Pentax 645 ($33,000 or some insane number), but she remember me telling her a few months later that it was cancelled because technology had already passed it by. I can't find anything now. |
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11/14/2008 02:15:34 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
The 645 system has swappable film backs. 120/220. Also, it (is) was a very popular system. I have to believe that eventually someone will create a digital back.
The 6x7 you're out of luck. |
Quoting myself- a new low.
My wife just pointed out that a few years ago I showed her an ad for a company that was announcing a digital back for the Pentax 645 ($33,000 or some insane number), but she remember me telling her a few months later that it was cancelled because technology had already passed it by. I can't find anything now. |
You quoted yourself before I could reply. I was going to tell you that even though the 645 has swappable backs, there are no digital backs available for it. Which is why they were developing the 645D, but that has gone the way of the dinosaur now too. |
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11/14/2008 02:28:43 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
The 645 system has swappable film backs. 120/220. Also, it (is) was a very popular system. I have to believe that eventually someone will create a digital back.
The 6x7 you're out of luck. |
Quoting myself- a new low.
My wife just pointed out that a few years ago I showed her an ad for a company that was announcing a digital back for the Pentax 645 ($33,000 or some insane number), but she remember me telling her a few months later that it was cancelled because technology had already passed it by. I can't find anything now. |
You quoted yourself before I could reply. I was going to tell you that even though the 645 has swappable backs, there are no digital backs available for it. Which is why they were developing the 645D, but that has gone the way of the dinosaur now too. |
The rumors still abound that Pentax is planning a digital system based on the 645 or 67 mount. My old Pentax rep doesn't know anything specific but he said Pentax views medium format as its "pro" market and isn't ready to give up on it. The question is- how many years will it be before we see anything from Pentax?
I think we're curving away from the original thread. But, one last thing- I have to admit that I have been really impressed with some of the MF digitals I've gotten to play with, but nothing has felt as good in my hands as my Pentax 645.
Back on thread.... I am not too worried about MF film disappearing anytime soon. While the variety of 35mm films have decreased it is still around. I am not expecting any amazing advancements in the film itself.
Honestly, my biggest complaint with digital is that I am not a big fan of B&W from digital- that may also just mean I need to work more at it- but I miss my TMax 100 (and red/deep red filters), and my Plus X (with an orange filter). I have never been able to reproduce my results from those combinations in digital. |
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11/14/2008 03:18:06 PM · #39 |
So far, film has better dynamic range and higher resolution. The images from Medium, and especially large format, film cameras are amazing.
That being said, my film camera languishes in it's bag sleeping quietly next to its lenses.
Digital gives me immediate results, and I don't shoot a roll of film to get a couple of good shots. Nor do I have to waste a roll of film because I need a couple of pictures developed. Add to that the fact that I have much more control with software and my digital camera, you can see why my film equipment sits idle.
If my skills were better, and I wanted the best possible image, I would shoot film.
I suspect that film will continue to dwindle, and digital will continue to grow, because of the good enough effect. Digital doesn't have to be better to supplant film, just good enough. People do not demand the best. Years ago it was VHS vs BetaMax. BetaMax was visibly better. VHS recording duration 6 hours vs 5, was a more convenient size, and it was good enough.
Hopefully, someday, digital will be come good enough to replace my beloved KodaChrome.
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11/14/2008 03:36:35 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
The 645 system has swappable film backs. 120/220. Also, it (is) was a very popular system. I have to believe that eventually someone will create a digital back.
The 6x7 you're out of luck. |
Quoting myself- a new low.
My wife just pointed out that a few years ago I showed her an ad for a company that was announcing a digital back for the Pentax 645 ($33,000 or some insane number), but she remember me telling her a few months later that it was cancelled because technology had already passed it by. I can't find anything now. |
Pentax scrapped plans to develop a digital back for the 645 and so far, no dig back manufacturer has picked up the ball. |
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11/14/2008 03:38:00 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
As long as you buy a MF system that uses interchangable backs, you can always get a digital back for your MF system.
They're expensive, yes, but you could get a good deal on a used one and the prices will drop as the technology matures even further. |
That leaves out the Pentax systems, which, for my money, are the best out there. Easiest to get started in too. *sigh*. hehe. |
The 645 system has swappable film backs. 120/220. Also, it (is) was a very popular system. I have to believe that eventually someone will create a digital back.
The 6x7 you're out of luck. |
Quoting myself- a new low.
My wife just pointed out that a few years ago I showed her an ad for a company that was announcing a digital back for the Pentax 645 ($33,000 or some insane number), but she remember me telling her a few months later that it was cancelled because technology had already passed it by. I can't find anything now. |
You quoted yourself before I could reply. I was going to tell you that even though the 645 has swappable backs, there are no digital backs available for it. Which is why they were developing the 645D, but that has gone the way of the dinosaur now too. |
The rumors still abound that Pentax is planning a digital system based on the 645 or 67 mount. My old Pentax rep doesn't know anything specific but he said Pentax views medium format as its "pro" market and isn't ready to give up on it. The question is- how many years will it be before we see anything from Pentax?
I think we're curving away from the original thread. But, one last thing- I have to admit that I have been really impressed with some of the MF digitals I've gotten to play with, but nothing has felt as good in my hands as my Pentax 645.
Back on thread.... I am not too worried about MF film disappearing anytime soon. While the variety of 35mm films have decreased it is still around. I am not expecting any amazing advancements in the film itself.
Honestly, my biggest complaint with digital is that I am not a big fan of B&W from digital- that may also just mean I need to work more at it- but I miss my TMax 100 (and red/deep red filters), and my Plus X (with an orange filter). I have never been able to reproduce my results from those combinations in digital. |
I miss ISO 32 Pan-X |
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11/14/2008 03:44:01 PM · #42 |
| i just cant invest in the time to hide away for hours at a time developing/printing .. i like shooting film & would like to try medium or even large format but the time ... |
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11/14/2008 05:01:00 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by ralph:
i just cant invest in the time to hide away for hours at a time developing/printing .. |
Clearly you are not married :) |
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11/14/2008 05:08:50 PM · #44 |
cool i got a discussion about medium format going...lol
i think as long as there are manufacturers out there who still develop and produce medium format bodies with interchangable backs (tho the only two big companies left are mamiya and hasselblad as far as i'm concerned) we don't need to worry about companies stopping to produce film. there's still a good amount of influential photographers who depend on shooting with film, too.
to the guys discussing about the pentax 645: isn't there an adapter or something that allowes you to mount any digital back (mamiya zd, leaf, phaseone,...) to the camera? i've heard about that somewhere but am not sure if that applied to the pentax system...
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11/14/2008 05:14:56 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Mephisto:
cool i got a discussion about medium format going...lol
i think as long as there are manufacturers out there who still develop and produce medium format bodies with interchangable backs (tho the only two big companies left are mamiya and hasselblad as far as i'm concerned) we don't need to worry about companies stopping to produce film. there's still a good amount of influential photographers who depend on shooting with film, too.
to the guys discussing about the pentax 645: isn't there an adapter or something that allowes you to mount any digital back (mamiya zd, leaf, phaseone,...) to the camera? i've heard about that somewhere but am not sure if that applied to the pentax system... |
I think the problem with the Pentax 645 is that the back slides into the camera (about 2.5 inches or so) and because of that it isn't as easy as some of the Mamiyas and Hasseys out there.
ETA: Basically when you look at a 645 the film plane is actually about in the middle between the lens mount and the back of the camera.
Message edited by author 2008-11-14 17:15:56. |
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11/14/2008 05:15:29 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
those of us who are the true old school still carve inside cave walls....i dont touch that new-fangled film |
You had a cave? We used to dream of having a cave. |
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11/14/2008 05:22:53 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by ralph:
i just cant invest in the time to hide away for hours at a time developing/printing .. |
Clearly you are not married :) |
Clearly he is... :) |
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11/14/2008 05:25:08 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by mpeters:
Originally posted by vxpra:
Originally posted by ralph:
i just cant invest in the time to hide away for hours at a time developing/printing .. |
Clearly you are not married :) |
Clearly he is... :) |
You're right- I just dream of having hours away. :)
(And in case my wife reads this Love Ya Honey) |
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11/14/2008 06:23:09 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by raish:
Originally posted by smardaz:
those of us who are the true old school still carve inside cave walls....i dont touch that new-fangled film |
You had a cave? We used to dream of having a cave. |
Every self-respecting man should have a man-cave. |
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11/14/2008 07:53:27 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by raish:
Originally posted by smardaz:
those of us who are the true old school still carve inside cave walls....i dont touch that new-fangled film |
You had a cave? We used to dream of having a cave. |
Oh, that's nothing. My Mum and Dad used to wake us up a half-hour before we went to sleep and makes us LICK the cave walls clean with our tongues. Then he would kill us. Every Night. You try telling young people today about that, they don't believe you.
(gotta love Monty Python!)
Message edited by author 2008-11-14 19:54:05. |
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