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10/03/2008 11:31:30 PM · #76 |
somebody could donate an old, crappy, low res monitor so the OP could "see" well enough to rescale his votes........
[bad, bad chromeydome--making snarky posts... for shame, for shame! ] |
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10/03/2008 11:38:05 PM · #77 |
Originally posted by pamelasue: Yep, scrolling to see the entire image would suck ... but I think that most people have gone beyond the 800x600 screen resolution by now ... making the size limits slightly larger wouldn't be a bad thing ... even 800x800 would be an improvement ... |
800 x 800 is HUGE on some monitors. |
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10/03/2008 11:46:13 PM · #78 |
640 and 720 is fine with me. I have never had a problem with the size requirements. On my laptop 800 would be by far too big to vote with, so this idea really does't excite me. .02
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10/03/2008 11:58:57 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by L2: Back on topic, the idea that someone can't give a vote above a "5" just seems, well, rather sulky. Eventually this behavior would lead to a very low "average vote cast" and cries in various scoring threads of "Help, help, I'm being attacked by a troll!" |
Well, then we'll have something else to talk about. Why not chop the resolution in half? All the images would look alive and full of color then. Heck, that's the way we see them in the viewfinder AND the LCD screen, so that must be the best way to look at them. Sulky or not, this is what you guys get. No one from Langdon to SC has given us any reasoning as to why the numerous polls were blown off. That makes me, well, rather pissy. I can't see the detailed image, I will not give it high scores. While 720px is still too small in my opinion, I can see it much better that 640. I'll just save my higher votes for those challenges. Hopefully the site will eventually catch up and make this a non-issue.
[quote=chromeydome}
somebody could donate an old, crappy, low res monitor so the OP could "see" well enough to rescale his votes........[/quote]
Why not just toss all these fancy DSLRs and get back to real digital photography...the Sony Mavica that records onto floppys? While the rest of the free world moves ahead, we'll all start taking steps backwards at DPC. Great idea! I should have though of that and not even mentioned it.
The point remains, polls have shown that the site members want a size and resolution increase. Not just an increase in one weekly entry, but all of them. We got about 1/3 of what we were asking for, I guess to shut us up. Are any of you complaining about the crazy-big images that we have to look at in the member challenges? No. Larger sizes are much nicer and much easier to critique and judge.
Next... |
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10/04/2008 12:02:57 AM · #80 |
Slightly off topic but what I really wish for, is if PSD photoshop files, could store several sizes inside. I always find it annoying to make my edits on the copy of my original, then resize it, save it, then decide I don't like the color the next day. Usually I end up with, copy of original, PSD version of original with edits, cropped version of PSD, resized version PSD, and finally a resized version JPEG for upload. Sorry, just needed to vent, go back to your bickering everyone!
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10/04/2008 12:15:46 AM · #81 |
Glad to see your'll vote higher on member challenges, poss. all the way to a 6...Lol. I guess I'm confused, the last poll the 720 size out voted the 800 size so where is all the over whelming support? Am I missing something?
Poll on image size
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10/04/2008 12:20:18 AM · #82 |
Originally posted by ericwoo: ... No one from Langdon to SC has given us any reasoning as to why the numerous polls were blown off...
The point remains, polls have shown that the site members want a size and resolution increase. Not just an increase in one weekly entry, but all of them... |
Your first point is incorrect:
Originally posted by langdon: We could certainly run a poll again, I suppose (#1, #2). Google Analytics data for the month of April would suggest that this might be a bad idea:
1. 1024x768 36.59%
2. 1280x1024 21.51%
3. 1280x800 9.15%
4. 1680x1050 6.37%
5. 1440x900 4.98%
6. 1400x1050 4.98%
7. 1152x864 3.35%
8. 800x600 2.77%
9. 1920x1200 2.50%
10. 1600x1200 2.27
56.84% of viewers wouldn't be able to see portrait-styled images @ a full 720px. |
As to your second point, increased size limits for some challenges is a member perk. |
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10/04/2008 01:39:16 AM · #83 |
Originally posted by L2: Originally posted by ericwoo: ... No one from Langdon to SC has given us any reasoning as to why the numerous polls were blown off...
The point remains, polls have shown that the site members want a size and resolution increase. Not just an increase in one weekly entry, but all of them... |
Your first point is incorrect:
Originally posted by langdon: We could certainly run a poll again, I suppose (#1, #2). Google Analytics data for the month of April would suggest that this might be a bad idea:
1. 1024x768 36.59%
2. 1280x1024 21.51%
3. 1280x800 9.15%
4. 1680x1050 6.37%
5. 1440x900 4.98%
6. 1400x1050 4.98%
7. 1152x864 3.35%
8. 800x600 2.77%
9. 1920x1200 2.50%
10. 1600x1200 2.27
56.84% of viewers wouldn't be able to see portrait-styled images @ a full 720px. |
As to your second point, increased size limits for some challenges is a member perk. |
Those were GREAT figures a year-and-a-half ago. You think that maybe...I know it may sound crazy...but just maybe...more people have upgraded outdated technology as prices have dropped since then? I know, insane, but it may have happened. Don't tell me that, since it was addressed 17 months ago that we should just go back to that answer and live with it. Perhaps you would have been more comfortable had I said that it hasn't been 'recently' addressed.
And to say that a 12-13% image size increase is a 'member perk' is pathetic. This far into the site's history and that's all the size increase you can offer as a perk? |
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10/04/2008 09:39:54 AM · #84 |
Originally posted by L2: Your first point is incorrect: |
That poll is over a year and half old. It's not quite relevant. |
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10/04/2008 12:21:21 PM · #85 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb: Originally posted by MikeJ: Why do you say that? Is it required that we enter challenges to enjoy DPC? Or is it that only those that have entered can have an opinion about how this site or anything outside of this site? I have a number of reasons why I never have and probably will never enter a challenge. |
Okay, and that's your right, but you don't participate, you don't vote, so IMO you're speaking from a perspective of zero experience.
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I do vote. Not every challenge, but I do vote and I do leave comments. And I do participate in other ways. If it wasn't for all of us that participated in the other activities on here, DPC would not be a third of what it is. As for my experience, you have no idea what my experience is or my background or what I know and don't know. If anything, I'd say your assumptions are grossly over assumed. I know a lot and have a lot of experience. And that's not speaking from elitisum either.
[quote]
I know after two years and over 100 challenges, I see, and vote, images entirely different than I did at the beginning.....it's just a fact that I have a better handle on what works here within what's typical to this site than someone who hasn't spent a great deal of time doing the same.
[/quote]
I don't think you know as much as your ego thinks you know. Just because you have entered challenges, that doesn't make you any more qualified than anyone else. When you get a good grip on a handle, you should make sure it's connected to something. And I'll base that on your comments here and in other threads I've seen. Of course that is just my opinion, which I'm finding is probably worth more than yours.
[quote]
My beef with the OPs stance is that nothing has really changed other than his view, and he seems to be taking it out on the same entrants that he's been voting on for....however long he's been doing it.
If he's mad at SC, Langdon, fine, but don't take it out on us.
[/quote]
And if you are mad at him for expressing his views and frustrations, why try to take it out on me because I said that Ritz catered to the masses rather than working and professional photographers? You seem to have a number of double standards.
Or maybe you buy all of your stuff at Ritz or work for them?
[quote]
Maybe you've been busy looking at challenge entries, and voting them in your head, but I still just feel that by your RECORDED level of participation, you're not speaking from an informed stance.
That's certainly well within your right, I just feel that it doesn't carry much weight as compared to the views of the people who participate.
[/quote]
And I'm going to say you are very wrong in your observations. I could even say since you make such wrong assumtions so easy that anything else you have to say is probably also wrong. I won't, since I don't just to those types of conclusions so easy. But it does make me wonder.
Originally posted by MikeJ: Just like there are different grade plumbers and electrictions and those working to be doctors, there are also different grades, quality and levels of photographers. |
And site participants???.....8>)
Originally posted by MikeJ: You talk about someone not having anything to prove, yet you wonder that I have never entered a contest and would make a comment about how the challenges are run. |
I just wondered why if you don't participate.
What difference does it make to you if you're not affected in the slightest by this man changing the way he votes?
Not that he's going to shake the earth, but it cannot affect you at all, right? [/quote]
I like DPC. And I like and respect a lot of people on here (even if they don't know me or know that I do). And regardless of if I'd entered challenges on here, I have a long and varied experience in photography and I've either run, particapated in or had something to do with message and user forums since 1983... most of those being photography forums. And frankly, over the years, I've seen a lot of changes but very little difference in the people that particapate in them. I've seen a lot of what works and what doesn't. I've seen large active sites that you would think would never lose members, dry up and blow away. And just because I don't enter challenges doesn't mean that I don't care what happens on DPC. Just about anything that affects those that enter challenges is also going to affect those of us that don't. Because, even though DPC wouldn't be much with out us non-challenge particapants, it also wouldn't be very much if those that entered challenges decided to leave... paticually those that are constantly in the top group.
Why don't I enter challenges? Most of my reasons are probably only important to me, but time is one reason. For the last few years, I just haven't had the time or energy to do as much photography as I once did. I see a challenge that really interests me and the next thing I know, the time limit is up. Such is life. We all plan on doing a lot of things and next thing we know, our time limit is up and we are dead.
Anyway, you are welcome to your opinion and I'll express mine when I see something I want to express it about. Disregard it, ignore it or what ever.
Mike
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10/04/2008 12:33:51 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by ericwoo: You think that maybe...I know it may sound crazy...but just maybe...more people have upgraded outdated technology as prices have dropped since then? |
I know I haven't, and with today's economic situation I'm not going to until my current monitor dies.
You think maybe, just maybe, the continual drive to "upgrade" every time a new model comes out, even when the current one works perfectly, is the basis for out (hyper)consumer economy, and is part of what's driving the current "credit crisis?" |
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10/04/2008 12:46:31 PM · #87 |
Originally posted by GeneralE: You think maybe, just maybe, the continual drive to "upgrade" every time a new model comes out, even when the current one works perfectly, is the basis for out (hyper)consumer economy, and is part of what's driving the current "credit crisis?" |
Yes obviously consumer purchasing is the basis for a consumer economy. No it has nothing to do with the current economic crisis, nor has anyone other than yourself tried to make that link.
I've upgraded a 17 inch CRT to a 19 inch LCD and also bought a 22 inch LCD all in the last year and a half. Lots of other people have, lots of people haven't. Your personal economic situation is no benchmark for anything. |
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10/04/2008 01:26:23 PM · #88 |
Originally posted by violinist123: I've upgraded a 17 inch CRT to a 19 inch LCD and also bought a 22 inch LCD all in the last year and a half. Lots of other people have, lots of people haven't. Your personal economic situation is no benchmark for anything. |
Yes, but neither is it "insane" or somehow a failure to perform my consumerist duty ... or a betrayal of my photographic vows.
Langdon announced some time ago that he and Drew (the other original site founder) were discussing a complete site overhaul; as a consequence, most incremental changes/improvements to the current version (DPC-2) should not be expected.
Another consideration is that, what with everyone's obsession with site statistics, it becomes unfair to compare scores between challenges with significant technical differences. If a larger display makes such a difference, is it fair to say that later, and presumably higher-scoring, entries are really "better" than ones entered this year.
I guess I feel a bit bugged that "we" are somehow "wrong" to be maintaining a stable environment, and the low-level blackmail doesn't go over that well with me either. |
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10/04/2008 01:38:56 PM · #89 |
Originally posted by GeneralE: I guess I feel a bit bugged that "we" are somehow "wrong" to be maintaining a stable environment, and the low-level blackmail doesn't go over that well with me either. |
Larger entry sizes would be nice. That's about the extent of my personal excitement over the issue goes. However asking a bunch of people what they want, and then never delivering it doesn't make a lot of sense and would seem to be a recipe for irritating people. |
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10/04/2008 01:47:28 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by violinist123: Originally posted by GeneralE: I guess I feel a bit bugged that "we" are somehow "wrong" to be maintaining a stable environment, and the low-level blackmail doesn't go over that well with me either. |
Larger entry sizes would be nice. That's about the extent of my personal excitement over the issue goes. However asking a bunch of people what they want, and then never delivering it doesn't make a lot of sense and would seem to be a recipe for irritating people. |
Or at least mention why it isn't happening, a la, "We don't think it's worth it," "Nobody really asked for that," "It's coming sometime later," or, "We're busy with other things." A little more communication might be well received. In fact, the lack of communication is probably the reason for the occasional sense of disquiet, and this very thread. DPC needs a communications director. :-P |
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10/04/2008 03:08:10 PM · #91 |
Originally posted by violinist123: Originally posted by GeneralE: I guess I feel a bit bugged that "we" are somehow "wrong" to be maintaining a stable environment, and the low-level blackmail doesn't go over that well with me either. |
Larger entry sizes would be nice. That's about the extent of my personal excitement over the issue goes. However asking a bunch of people what they want, and then never delivering it doesn't make a lot of sense and would seem to be a recipe for irritating people. |
I'm not sure this is a fair assessment. Langdon previously explained why he was reluctant to increase the submission sizes (accessibility) and after that statement and another poll, actually did increase them for Members.
In March 2008, he announced that a major overhaul was planned and in progress, and in July 2008 a systems upgrade was announced and subsequently took place to get ready for those changes.
It would seem that there are two voting concerns at work here:
1) If voters have to scroll to see an image during voting it *may* have an adverse effect the number of people voting, and/or final scores, and
2) If certain people can't force those same voters to scroll to vote on every image that they will be *sure* to enact an adverse effect on scores.
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10/04/2008 03:19:52 PM · #92 |
This may have been addressed already, but if image theft is an issue, is there something that can be done to prevent it?
I've seen the "right-click" feature disabled on some sites. Would that help here? I don't really know enough about the ways people steal images to suggest anything, but I'm sure other users have an opinion. |
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10/04/2008 03:55:52 PM · #93 |
There are obviously pros and cons with respect to image sizing. While the OP would love the increase, it would impact other members with laptops. I know that right now, when voting on a portrait orientation image, I have to scroll to get to the comments field (and cannot then see the entire image as I comment). I have an iMac 24'', so how annoying would that be on a laptop? With an impending overhaul to the site as a whole, it seems reasonable to me to hold off on interim, incremental updates if that helps the team on the overhaul task. It may be reasonable to do some limited incremental updates that will be retained in the overhaul, but I am comfortable leaving that up to the site council. Possibly, as a part of the overhaul, a feature that allows rescaling based on individual monitor resolutions could be added (probably too complicated, though). The theft issue does surface quite a bit, too, it seems.
I would like to point out that I was 'knee-jerk' in favor of larger images in challenges because I did not realize, until some rational postings occurred in this thread, that it could adversely affect those with smaller monitors. Possibly, then, many others who answered a poll about image size did not realize the full set of implications....
As for communication: it might be good to communicate about the features to be included in the overhaul. It might not--it might invite lots of prejudging and "design by committee" sorts of things, too. I defer to the SC on this. I find it hard to believe that any such overhaul will be a net negative, nor will any single "negative" feature change be so impactful as to ruin my experience here.
For the very small fee this site charges, I get more than enough value. When they give me more portfolio space at no charge, I don't think that is "pathetic" and instead I appreciate it.
My 25 bucks a year gets me the chance to see a lot of wonderful work by wonderful photographers, a chance to learn, a chance to share, a chance to "meet" people here and discuss our common interests in a positive way, and to participate in challenges--all for FUN and Growth. If a feature like image size or anything else here was obsessively destroying my ability to enjoy myself here, well, I would move on.
I really don't think any reasonable discussion of the topic occurred until very late in this thread, and most of the prior concern here (from my view) has, instead, been about the manner (or lack thereof) of the commentary: I think it is good that I am not on the SC, as I cannot imagine being as tolerant and patient as they have been with the petty threats and blackmail--saying things like one is renewing one last time, you have a year to fix things my way, I won't vote higher than a 5 until you do is just counter-productive at best. Were I on the SC, I would be inclined to refund his staggering 25 bucks and show him the door.
Does his 25 bucks matter much? No. Does his screwy skewy voting scale matter much? No. Does his negative spewage affect the tone and fun associated with being here--I think it can. Do verbal assaults on the SC and other posters, and a "If that pisses you off, I don't give a ____!" attitude help or hinder? I say it hinders.
Originally posted by ericwoo:
My voting scale is different than yours, and every other scale here.
I ... WILL NOT....
If that pisses you off, I DON'T GIVE A SH*T.
....for all you Pablo Picassos out there that are worried about your works being stolen and sold for millions...
to say that a 12-13% image size increase is a 'member perk' is pathetic. This far into the site's history and that's all the size increase you can offer as a perk?
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10/04/2008 05:17:55 PM · #94 |
Originally posted by L2: It would seem that there are two voting concerns at work here:
1) If voters have to scroll to see an image during voting it *may* have an adverse effect the number of people voting, and/or final scores, and
2) If certain people can't force those same voters to scroll to vote on every image that they will be *sure* to enact an adverse effect on scores. |
Of course that is how you see it in your skewed thought process. My one vote has no adverse effect on scores, as has been pointed out MULTIPLE times. However, those that have smaller screens and do not allow the image to shrink to their screen size, are still at an advantage. They can see the image better; details, focus points, hues and tonal ranges. Why are they, and you, 'forcing' me to vote on images that cannot be full appreciated? Let's look at it like that. What kind of system overhaul is in process right now, or is that just another buzz-word to keep us thinking that our requests are not really being ignored. What kind of time frame are we looking at? I'm guessing that the SC doesn't even know.
Originally posted by GeneralIE: Another consideration is that, what with everyone's obsession with site statistics, it becomes unfair to compare scores between challenges with significant technical differences. If a larger display makes such a difference, is it fair to say that later, and presumably higher-scoring, entries are really "better" than ones entered this year.
I guess I feel a bit bugged that "we" are somehow "wrong" to be maintaining a stable environment, and the low-level blackmail doesn't go over that well with me either. |
Obsession with statistics? Should that really be a consideration in whether or not a site grows and progresses? That one is a real reach in my book, Paul. Maybe you guys could put an asterisk by our names, kind of like Barry Bonds in the record books. Hank Aaron didn't have the benefit of performance enhancers back in his time. But, come to think of it...maybe that should be done now. There are so many entries that are being shot with such a boosted amount of power and technology from those in the past. The first blue ribbon was shot with a 4 MP camera. In you mindset, how is it even fair to compare today's ribbons to Drew's when he had such a technological disadvantage back on the beginning of 2002?
Call it blackmail, call it exhaustion. I still don't care. The simple fact remains that as least it stirred some discussion. Two weeks from now, this thread will have dies and Langdon and the SC will have done whatever it is they want to do with the ideas and suggestions thrown about here. At least you guys are thinking about it now. Take note that I am not the only one asking for the change.
Originally posted by chromeydome: I think it is good that I am not on the SC, as I cannot imagine being as tolerant and patient as they have been with the petty threats and blackmail--saying things like one is renewing one last time, you have a year to fix things my way, I won't vote higher than a 5 until you do is just counter-productive at best. |
It is good there b d. You'd probably run off your paying member base. Everyone here has a voting scale. The only differences are that I have announced mine and you continue to blast me for my thoughts. Taking a look at your profile, your votes are consistently lower than mine. Why do you have such a rigid scale and give so many lower votes? Mine has only recently changed due to the fact that I cannot adequately see the images. Yours is consistently low. What makes you punish the entrants with your lower votes? It must be tough walking through life everyday being so affected by every individual's attitudes. You have your 'spewage' and I have mine. I just like mine better. And nothing here is "obsessively destroying my ability to enjoy myself here." Apparently you revisited the original post. I have made many new friends on this site, and flown all over the country to shoot with them on multiple occasions. The small images do not hinder my enjoyment, nor my ability to shoot photos. It does, however, hinder my desire to pay an annual fee for a site that I no longer see progressing. And again, I don't care it you like that or not. That is where I am with this site. It is a small fee, and I have offered in more than one thread to pay more for more allowances. No one answers, though. Now, I will step away for a bit so we can get back to your 'reasonable discussion.' One last thought, I am on my laptop 99% of the time. I made the request for larger images based on that fact. |
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10/04/2008 05:42:00 PM · #95 |
Why on earth did you renew your membership to a site you are not satisfied with?
That would be my only thought in this whole matter. I do not enjoy smoking so I do not buy cigarettes.
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10/04/2008 06:14:23 PM · #96 |
Originally posted by MAK: Why on earth did you renew your membership to a site you are not satisfied with?
That would be my only thought in this whole matter. I do not enjoy smoking so I do not buy cigarettes. |
I smoke, and when the people who buy cigarettes wanted longer cigarettes they made them. And when they wanted unfiltered cigarettes, they made them. And when they wanted menthol cigarettes, they made them. They kept doing what their paying customers wanted in a way that kept all of them paying and took nothing away from any of them.
Seems like Business 101 to me, and logic that dpc could certainly afford to apply. Hell, they're already pushing an addictive product! |
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10/04/2008 06:19:11 PM · #97 |
This just in: DPC will soon offer free cigarettes to members only!
I'm holding out for beer. So... my membership expires at the end of this month and I will not renew unless I'm drunk. |
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10/04/2008 07:30:03 PM · #98 |
Originally posted by kenskid: I let mine expire. I was going to renew but the CNBC convinced me that I was going to lose my house, job, and my car as the country spirialed down into a depression. I gather though that after Obama is elected, I may sign back up because CNBC says all will be better. |
Thanks for that! Dammit, now I need to clean the coffee off my monitor. :D
I'm with Eric. Larger images... for everyone!
Message edited by author 2008-10-04 19:32:30.
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10/04/2008 08:12:39 PM · #99 |
Originally posted by MAK: Why on earth did you renew your membership to a site you are not satisfied with?
That would be my only thought in this whole matter. I do not enjoy smoking so I do not buy cigarettes. |
Did you read the original post, or did you read the end and hop into the conversation just to be in? To get any sort of decent resolution, you HAVE to be a member. Even 720px is too small in my opinion, but, since I have ENJOYED the community thus far, I am willing to give it another membership term to grow into something more reasonable.
Originally posted by Art Roflmao: I'm holding out for beer. So... my membership expires at the end of this month and I will not renew unless I'm drunk. |
I usually reserve posting for when I'm drunk, but work is keeping me too busy to even look at a beer here lately. However, free beer would keep me coming back even if we do away with all the images of any size. Looking back, I even tend to buy most of the beers at GTGs, so those aren't even free. At least they're cold!
Originally posted by Mick: I'm with Eric. Larger images... for everyone! |
Thanks, Mick. That is the gist of what so many of us have asked for. Larger images across the board. 720px for users, 1000 for members. That seems easy enough. |
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10/04/2008 09:25:07 PM · #100 |
Originally posted by ericwoo: Originally posted by Art Roflmao: I'm holding out for beer. So... my membership expires at the end of this month and I will not renew unless I'm drunk. |
I usually reserve posting for when I'm drunk, but work is keeping me too busy to even look at a beer here lately. However, free beer would keep me coming back even if we do away with all the images of any size. Looking back, I even tend to buy most of the beers at GTGs, so those aren't even free. At least they're cold! |
Keep in mind that the image size inherently goes up proportionately with the number of beers consumed...
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