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09/30/2008 09:08:31 PM · #26

No I only do that at night when the moon is out....

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Do you wrap yoursaelf in 6" of bubble wrap before you go out the door?

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

09/30/2008 09:14:10 PM · #27

Is it not almost amusing how many people claim this but also in other post claim it is societies responsibility to take care of them..

Originally posted by Flash:

I must say that I am extermely pleased to read these many posts in favor of individual responsibility and accountability.

togtog

Nikon D300

09/30/2008 09:27:32 PM · #28

Originally posted by coronamv:

Is it not almost amusing how many people claim this but also in other post claim it is societies responsibility to take care of them..
Originally posted by Flash:
I must say that I am extermely pleased to read these many posts in favor of individual responsibility and accountability.

Sometimes matters and events are beyond the control of those they effect. Personal responsibility does not need to conflict with things like welfare. At least in my opinion. If you have the means to better the situation then you should, however if you don't you just commit suicide?

How do you personally see things like welfare compared to personal responsibility?

09/30/2008 09:31:16 PM · #29

Originally posted by togtog:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Is it not almost amusing how many people claim this but also in other post claim it is societies responsibility to take care of them..
Originally posted by Flash:
I must say that I am extermely pleased to read these many posts in favor of individual responsibility and accountability.

Sometimes matters and events are beyond the control of those they effect. Personal responsibility does not need to conflict with things like welfare. At least in my opinion. If you have the means to better the situation then you should, however if you don't you just commit suicide?

How do you personally see things like welfare compared to personal responsibility?

Well put. For some (ill-informed or self-righteous) people, personal responsibility and social welfare are 100% mutually exclusive. Everything is black and white. It is all or nothing.

Sad, really.

09/30/2008 09:57:56 PM · #30

Well I did not say 100 percent, but you may be onto something there. If you believe you should take responsibility for your own actions then do so. Calling someone ill-informed or self-righteous proves nothing.

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by togtog:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Is it not almost amusing how many people claim this but also in other post claim it is societies responsibility to take care of them..
Originally posted by Flash:
I must say that I am extermely pleased to read these many posts in favor of individual responsibility and accountability.

Sometimes matters and events are beyond the control of those they effect. Personal responsibility does not need to conflict with things like welfare. At least in my opinion. If you have the means to better the situation then you should, however if you don't you just commit suicide?

How do you personally see things like welfare compared to personal responsibility?

Well put. For some (ill-informed or self-righteous) people, personal responsibility and social welfare are 100% mutually exclusive. Everything is black and white. It is all or nothing.

Sad, really.

09/30/2008 10:05:09 PM · #31

Originally posted by coronamv:

Perhaps not, but ignoring the fact that social welfare need can come about completely independant of personal actions and making statements such as the one you did prove that you are perhaps not thinking things completely through, no?

*EDIT* I just wanted to make it clear that while coronamv may have been the catalyst, my response to togtog was not directed at coronamv specifically, but was a general response directed to a rather large group of people that do tend to see things as I described them. People that I know both personally and on website forums all over the place.

Message edited by author 2008-09-30 22:12:56.

10/02/2008 06:18:39 PM · #32

Understood K10 , but you see the problem with people in general today is that nothing is ever "their" fault. You can always find someone else to blame. When one starts to take responsibility for their actions then you start to see results. I personally do not believe that anything is completely independant of our own actions. To make that statement and believe that then you would have to believe that your not in control of your own life. People fail to see the little things they do or did in the past or present that create the issues they are confronted with at this point in time. No one said life was easy..

Carl Zeiss 50mm ZE f/1.4 Planar T for Canon

10/02/2008 06:52:10 PM · #33

Originally posted by coronamv:

Understood K10 , but you see the problem with people in general today is that nothing is ever "their" fault. You can always find someone else to blame. When one starts to take responsibility for their actions then you start to see results. I personally do not believe that anything is completely independant of our own actions. To make that statement and believe that then you would have to believe that your not in control of your own life. People fail to see the little things they do or did in the past or present that create the issues they are confronted with at this point in time. No one said life was easy..

I can't even take you seriously after that little snippet of wisdom, honestly.

The onset of a sudden and debilitating genetic disease isn't independant of our actions? A freak disaster? The complete failure of an otherwise strong corporation/business that you work for due to unforseen idiocy on the part of the owners/people that run the place? Etc, etc, etc.

I guess people that find themselves in such situations shouldn't have failed to know that a) they have bad genetics, b) They shouldn't live somewhere on earth where a disaster could happen or c) should know the ins and outs of everything that happens in the companies they work for in order to circumvent such things.

Honestly.

yanko

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

10/02/2008 07:58:24 PM · #34

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Understood K10 , but you see the problem with people in general today is that nothing is ever "their" fault. You can always find someone else to blame. When one starts to take responsibility for their actions then you start to see results. I personally do not believe that anything is completely independant of our own actions. To make that statement and believe that then you would have to believe that your not in control of your own life. People fail to see the little things they do or did in the past or present that create the issues they are confronted with at this point in time. No one said life was easy..

I can't even take you seriously after that little snippet of wisdom, honestly.

The onset of a sudden and debilitating genetic disease isn't independant of our actions? A freak disaster? The complete failure of an otherwise strong corporation/business that you work for due to unforseen idiocy on the part of the owners/people that run the place? Etc, etc, etc.

I guess people that find themselves in such situations shouldn't have failed to know that a) they have bad genetics, b) They shouldn't live somewhere on earth where a disaster could happen or c) should know the ins and outs of everything that happens in the companies they work for in order to circumvent such things.

Honestly.

If an asteroid hit Earth I'm blaming you. Just FYI. :P

10/02/2008 09:18:49 PM · #35

There is no such thing as a sudden onset- Failure in your part to get proper medical examinations is not an emergency on my part. Freak disasters... If you build on the side of a volcano in a region known for flooding or earth quakes and do not have insurance to protect your assets then you did not once again prepare. Along with most people do not look at the company they work for with open eyes. I always like to hear people say wow I did not see that coming.. Ok so the lay-offs, no raises for the last few years, Cutting back on benefits and other things were not indicators that your company was in trouble? Actually you sarcastickly summed it up for me. Yes it is called being prepared for the worst that life has to throw your way. Anyone who is or does not prepare should pay the price. Not those who do what is necessary to survive. I mean do you not understand it is called survival for a reason?

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

10/02/2008 09:23:11 PM · #36

Actually society will be wiped of the face of this planet and if humans do not find a way to either divert this disaster or when the sun finally goes supernova then we will no longer matter and our extinction will be of our own doing.

Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Understood K10 , but you see the problem with people in general today is that nothing is ever "their" fault. You can always find someone else to blame. When one starts to take responsibility for their actions then you start to see results. I personally do not believe that anything is completely independant of our own actions. To make that statement and believe that then you would have to believe that your not in control of your own life. People fail to see the little things they do or did in the past or present that create the issues they are confronted with at this point in time. No one said life was easy..

I can't even take you seriously after that little snippet of wisdom, honestly.

The onset of a sudden and debilitating genetic disease isn't independant of our actions? A freak disaster? The complete failure of an otherwise strong corporation/business that you work for due to unforseen idiocy on the part of the owners/people that run the place? Etc, etc, etc.

I guess people that find themselves in such situations shouldn't have failed to know that a) they have bad genetics, b) They shouldn't live somewhere on earth where a disaster could happen or c) should know the ins and outs of everything that happens in the companies they work for in order to circumvent such things.

Honestly.

If an asteroid hit Earth I'm blaming you. Just FYI. :P

10/02/2008 09:28:11 PM · #37

Originally posted by coronamv:

Are you honestly that out of touch with reality? There are sudden onsets, and I know people personally that have suffered them. A good friend of mine, who had to have a yearly physical for job purposes, was hit by Multiple Sclerosis out of the blue. Nobody gave him any warning, no doctor had any clue that it was something that was coming his way. I guess if he'd gone to the doctor every single day and got blood work they may have noticed something, but isn't that a little ridiculous? Heck, even every month is a little bit ridiculous. I'm glad that you have it all figured out though.

Natural disasters don't always hit where they are expected or have a history of hitting, but thank you for coming out on that one.

Sometimes a company fails without any warning, especially in today's volatile market-place. Yes, it's one of the more tenuous examples I've given, as putting money away for emergencies should be common-sense, but even with putting money away, it can't always last as long as it needs to.

Face it, sometimes factors exist that are beyond anyone's control, and it's rather pretentious and naive to think that we all have complete control all the time, or to believe that we should. We're human, we're prone to mistakes, we're at the mercy of the chaos that is life, and survival is not something that happens because we've learned how to control every aspect and decision of that life. Survival of humanity is, and pretty much always has been, dependent on the good will, compassion, and buffer of the people around us.

10/02/2008 11:03:32 PM · #38

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Originally posted by coronamv:
There is no such thing as a sudden onset- Failure in your part to get proper medical examinations is not an emergency on my part. Freak disasters... If you build on the side of a volcano in a region known for flooding or earth quakes and do not have insurance to protect your assets then you did not once again prepare. Along with most people do not look at the company they work for with open eyes. I always like to hear people say wow I did not see that coming.. Ok so the lay-offs, no raises for the last few years, Cutting back on benefits and other things were not indicators that your company was in trouble? Actually you sarcastickly summed it up for me. Yes it is called being prepared for the worst that life has to throw your way. Anyone who is or does not prepare should pay the price. Not those who do what is necessary to survive. I mean do you not understand it is called survival for a reason?

Are you honestly that out of touch with reality? There are sudden onsets, and I know people personally that have suffered them. A good friend of mine, who had to have a yearly physical for job purposes, was hit by Multiple Sclerosis out of the blue. Nobody gave him any warning, no doctor had any clue that it was something that was coming his way. I guess if he'd gone to the doctor every single day and got blood work they may have noticed something, but isn't that a little ridiculous? Heck, even every month is a little bit ridiculous. I'm glad that you have it all figured out though.

Natural disasters don't always hit where they are expected or have a history of hitting, but thank you for coming out on that one.

Sometimes a company fails without any warning, especially in today's volatile market-place. Yes, it's one of the more tenuous examples I've given, as putting money away for emergencies should be common-sense, but even with putting money away, it can't always last as long as it needs to.

Face it, sometimes factors exist that are beyond anyone's control, and it's rather pretentious and naive to think that we all have complete control all the time, or to believe that we should. We're human, we're prone to mistakes, we're at the mercy of the chaos that is life, and survival is not something that happens because we've learned how to control every aspect and decision of that life. Survival of humanity is, and pretty much always has been, dependent on the good will, compassion, and buffer of the people around us.

10/02/2008 11:18:19 PM · #39

This thread has gone deep into the darkest reaches of the toilet.

1. People should take personal responsibility for their own actions.

2. Stuff happens outside of ones personal control (i.e. Getting smashed in the face with a baseball bat while eating a turkey sandwich outside of a church) One may or may not see it coming, though has to take responsibility for how they react to it.
2b. Noone has to do a damn thing for that person, it because a moral or ethical choice to help then one of should or should not responsibility. Even a trained doctor can drive by without stopping (though not supposed to, they are not forced to)
3. No one should have to where a sign that says 'Because I carry a Bat I may or may not smash you in the face' around their neck. There is a million reasons why, it is up to the individual to make their own best judgment.
4. The World, and Life is not fair. It is not fair because we expect too much in return for far too little. If it was fair we would all be yellow with stars on our bellies.
5. Get over it and move on. Don't force one to see your way, because their or your eyes may be crossed. Just do your own thing and keep truckin.

10/02/2008 11:18:27 PM · #40

Originally posted by coronamv:

Well I will give you this much survival of the weaker members of humanity depends on the charity of the strong. Now you did use medical conditions as a reason. Who's Fault is it when your body fails? Is it mine or is it your body. I'm not saying you can prevent all things that occur. I'm saying you must deal with them as they are directly or indirectly due to you. If you get a disease due to genetics your right you cannot prevent it, but it is not caused by someone elses actions it is your genetic structure. Natural disasters that we have see have repeated themselves time and time again. IN THE SAME PLACES. Gees even the Farmers Almanac is better at predicting these things than the weather man. Do you think Katrina was the first flood in New Orleans? Do you think the sunami was the first to hit Sumatra and lower tailand? Do you think California is not going to have another large earth quake? Do you think Volcanos will not errupt again? Now I may not be able to predict when I might get sick or when a natural disaster might occur or even when I might lose my job, but I can prepare for the worst case imaginable and take at least the responsibility of my own life in my hands to that degree. Like I said before failure in planning on your part is not an emergency of mine. Here is a little info that you may find amusing. I have an anuity through AIG. If they go under I stand to lose that Anuity. If I pull out now I will be penalized 10% of that anuity. So I had a choice to make lose it all or pull out now. Since I have little faith in our congress to be able to come up with a solid plan to clean up the mess then I decided to lose 10% over the whole anuity. I took the risk. I lost out in the end. Who's fault is it? Mine. There are no guaranties in life except we will all die one day.
[quote=K10DGuy] [quote=coronamv] There is no such thing as a sudden onset- Failure in your part to get proper medical examinations is not an emergency on my part. Freak disasters... If you build on the side of a volcano in a region known for flooding or earth quakes and do not have insurance to protect your assets then you did not once again prepare. Along with most people do not look at the company they work for with open eyes. I always like to hear people say wow I did not see that coming.. Ok so the lay-offs, no raises for the last few years, Cutting back on benefits and other things were not indicators that your company was in trouble? Actually you sarcastickly summed it up for me. Yes it is called being prepared for the worst that life has to throw your way. Anyone who is or does not prepare should pay the price. Not those who do what is necessary to survive. I mean do you not understand it is called survival for a reason?

It's clear that you subscribe to an archaic form of belief that should have died out in the stone age, so I bid you good luck in your life and sincerely hope that nobody close to you ever suffers from some kind of disaster that may have to rely on your compassion, or lack thereof, but I have nothing more to say.

10/02/2008 11:21:32 PM · #41

Originally posted by littlegett:

Oh for the love of Pete, and people blame a lack of faith for the trouble we're in

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

10/03/2008 12:47:06 AM · #42

Originally posted by K10DGuy:

Oh for the love of Pete, and people blame a lack of faith for the trouble we're in

????

togtog

Nikon D300

10/03/2008 02:21:58 AM · #43

Originally posted by littlegett:

This thread has gone deep into the darkest reaches of the toilet.

Umm, the darkest reaches of most toilets would be inside the tank, so the thread is in the tank of a toilet?

Originally posted by littlegett:

2. Stuff happens outside of ones personal control (i.e. Getting smashed in the face with a baseball bat while eating a turkey sandwich outside of a church) One may or may not see it coming, though has to take responsibility for how they react to it.

Obviously people react in different ways. Could you give an example of an acceptable way to react to getting hit with a baseball bat verses an unacceptable way to react please?

Originally posted by littlegett:

2b. Noone has to do a damn thing for that person, it because a moral or ethical choice to help then one of should or should not responsibility. Even a trained doctor can drive by without stopping (though not supposed to, they are not forced to)

I agree, it is entirely true that no one needs to react to anything, especially things happening to other people. I don't believe you have defined if this is how you personally act, or if you are just making good argument so forgive me if my next question is out of touch and/or offensive.

Do you believe that life, human life specifically, should be a dog eat dog, strongest survives sort of environment? Assuming that such an environment would help to encourage further strengthening of the human species by not being dragged down by lazy and less than perfect examples of man and women? If I am not off base and you do not mind the question, would that include euthanizing "defective" children and adults to remove their burdens on the hard working population?

Originally posted by littlegett:

4. The World, and Life is not fair. It is not fair because we expect too much in return for far too little. If it was fair we would all be yellow with stars on our bellies.

Life is unfair because we wish to be yellow with stars on our bellies? I'm not sure I understand the reference if you could explain it I would be thankful.

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

10/03/2008 04:19:39 AM · #44

Originally posted by togtog:

Obviously people react in different ways. Could you give an example of an acceptable way to react to getting hit with a baseball bat verses an unacceptable way to react please?

What is acceptable to you may not be acceptable to me. It goes back to the first point, people need to take responsibility for their own actions.

However, it is also a trick question you ask, because are you expecting an answer that is acceptable to the church he was sitting in front of, acceptable to the group of people surrounding him, acceptable to society, acceptable to local law, acceptable to governmental rules/laws/regulations, or acceptable to himself? Which of course if it is the last, being himself, than you have to uncover what this persons moral and ethical character are. What and who he is and isn't. What he is mentally and physically capable of and what reaction he can live with.

There is no cut and dry.

Originally posted by togtog:

Do you believe that life, human life specifically, should be a dog eat dog, strongest survives sort of environment? Assuming that such an environment would help to encourage further strengthening of the human species by not being dragged down by lazy and less than perfect examples of man and women? If I am not off base and you do not mind the question, would that include euthanizing "defective" children and adults to remove their burdens on the hard working population?

Life is exactly what you make or don't make of it. All that I ask is you keep to your side of the fence. Granted we can hang out and have a bbq long as the septic tank isn't being clean. But once you push your opinions on me of strong matters, than thats where we fight.

I believe a persons body is their own to command. I also believe that if parents are legally responsible for their kids, if they choose to lay one down of illness, what business is it of mine? Put it this way, unless I was financially, physically and mentally able to care for someone elses child with no undo hardship onto me, what business is it of mine?

What urks me off, is all of the crap about 'feeding the children' overseas. Ya know... what about the issues we have in this country? Why don't this fugtards help to fix us, instead of wasting money somewhere else? Should I have feelings for them just because they are human????? No. You tell me, how many people every day are born and how many die? Of that number how many do you personally know? If I was to care about everyone else I would have killed myself long ago.

Do as ye wish, harm ye none.

Originally posted by togtog:

Life is unfair because we wish to be yellow with stars on our bellies? I'm not sure I understand the reference if you could explain it I would be thankful.

Its from a Dr. Seuss book, where the Sneetches, You had the Sneetches with stars on their bellies and those whom had none. Which causes the Star Belly Sneetches to treat the others like they were worthless. So someone came with machine to add stars to the bellies of those with none, than it went back to the stars wanted them removed and wowo... you should google this L()L

togtog

Nikon D300

10/03/2008 05:16:48 AM · #45

Originally posted by littlegett:

Originally posted by togtog:
Obviously people react in different ways. Could you give an example of an acceptable way to react to getting hit with a baseball bat verses an unacceptable way to react please?

What is acceptable to you may not be acceptable to me. It goes back to the first point, people need to take responsibility for their own actions.

However, it is also a trick question you ask, because are you expecting an answer that is acceptable to the church he was sitting in front of, acceptable to the group of people surrounding him, acceptable to society, acceptable to local law, acceptable to governmental rules/laws/regulations, or acceptable to himself? Which of course if it is the last, being himself, than you have to uncover what this persons moral and ethical character are. What and who he is and isn't. What he is mentally and physically capable of and what reaction he can live with.

There is no cut and dry.

Actually I wasn't expecting an answer acceptable to the church, not sure why you thought this. I'm a pantagonist and actually didn't even consider the setting you placed the man in.

I think I may have misunderstood the meaning of your statement however. I assumed you meant there was a certain acceptable and unacceptable reaction that you had in mind when making the statement. Was this incorrect?

Originally posted by littlegett:

Originally posted by togtog:
Do you believe that life, human life specifically, should be a dog eat dog, strongest survives sort of environment? Assuming that such an environment would help to encourage further strengthening of the human species by not being dragged down by lazy and less than perfect examples of man and women? If I am not off base and you do not mind the question, would that include euthanizing "defective" children and adults to remove their burdens on the hard working population?

Life is exactly what you make or don't make of it. All that I ask is you keep to your side of the fence. Granted we can hang out and have a bbq long as the septic tank isn't being clean. But once you push your opinions on me of strong matters, than thats where we fight.

I believe a persons body is their own to command. I also believe that if parents are legally responsible for their kids, if they choose to lay one down of illness, what business is it of mine? Put it this way, unless I was financially, physically and mentally able to care for someone elses child with no undo hardship onto me, what business is it of mine?

Seems fair enough. So you don't propose anything like cleaning society of burdens, you just don't want anyone coming to you for help for their own mess. They made the mess, they make the choices, they can deal with it. Somewhat anti-social but that is your choice not mine. :)

Originally posted by littlegett:

What urks me off, is all of the crap about 'feeding the children' overseas. Ya know... what about the issues we have in this country? Why don't this fugtards help to fix us, instead of wasting money somewhere else? Should I have feelings for them just because they are human????? No. You tell me, how many people every day are born and how many die? Of that number how many do you personally know? If I was to care about everyone else I would have killed myself long ago.

This too I can understand. Note, homeless people is an issue personally important to me, I don't expect you to agree. I have often frowned at the treatment of mentally ill homeless here, while watching people and churches ship food, supplies, and money overseas. Both groups are in need, yet those closest to us are the ones society tries to run out of town.

I cannot help but think there is a degree of wishful thinking involved, for America, the greatest country in the world, where everyone is happy and farts rainbows, it is a sobering and cutting contrast that not everyone is living the good life, that a lot of the American dream is exactly that, a dream, and the reality is life sucks for a good portion of people. But, but America is great! Anyone can be anything here, we don't need to help the homeless, lets help children in an overpopulated country where the birth rate doubles yearly. So it is perfered to shun and push such away, because it is a reminder that America isn't perfect.

That is just my personal opinion and just one area of senseless waste I see. I can certainly understand if the waste you see is not an issue of charity but taxes or defense or libraries.

Originally posted by littlegett:

Do as ye wish, harm ye none.

Do as ye wish, but don't push strong opinions on you, harmless as they are :P

Sorry I poke fun only.

Originally posted by littlegett:

Originally posted by togtog:
Life is unfair because we wish to be yellow with stars on our bellies? I'm not sure I understand the reference if you could explain it I would be thankful.

Its from a Dr. Seuss book, where the Sneetches, You had the Sneetches with stars on their bellies and those whom had none. Which causes the Star Belly Sneetches to treat the others like they were worthless. So someone came with machine to add stars to the bellies of those with none, than it went back to the stars wanted them removed and wowo... you should google this L()L

Ah, interesting, thank you for explaining that much, it is much more clear.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

10/03/2008 08:25:13 AM · #46

Originally posted by coronamv:

There is no such thing as a sudden onset-

The problem with most of your premises is that you operate from this perspective which simply isn't true.

Random, freak occurrences beyond our control DO happen all the time, and have been clearly documented and experienced down through history.

You've been informed of this in other threads too, my friend.

If you choose to believe otherwise, fine, but the rest of us won't.

10/03/2008 10:42:40 AM · #47

Jeb your right as I stated above there are things that are out of our control. The issue is whos responsibility is it to fix those things? WHat I see is that most people use these things as excuses instead of picking themselves up and fixing the problem they are in. Which usually is directly or indirectly related to an action they chose somewhere down their path in life. K10 if you have not read earlier post I have made I say it is not societies responsibility to fix your problems it is for your family, church and friends... Those around me know me to be a kind and giving individual. Strangers I could care less if they live or die.This is not because I am an evil person it is because they do not matter to me. I am just being honest. Most people claim one thing then do another. With me you get it without the suger and milk. Does it seem harsh? Yes when all you know about me is my world view and not the person.

10/03/2008 01:01:01 PM · #48

Originally posted by togtog:

Actually I wasn't expecting an answer acceptable to the church, not sure why you thought this. I'm a pantagonist and actually didn't even consider the setting you placed the man in.

Well I could have said school and asked if you want the acceptable reaction to a school... but read on.
p.s. I don't even know what a pantagonist is, nor does it matter to this situation persay, it really adds to the volume of possible acceptable reactions. If I am Of one religon sitting in front of another, which acceptable reaction should I take, the one before me or the one in me?

Originally posted by togtog:

I think I may have misunderstood the meaning of your statement however. I assumed you meant there was a certain acceptable and unacceptable reaction that you had in mind when making the statement. Was this incorrect?

NO!!, stop thinking so much. What I stated was a situation most normal people wouldn't think about. A situation where there is possibly a multitude of reactions available. As to what is or is not acceptable... read my last post.

Originally posted by togtog:

It is not anti-social, I do not stop anyone from talking with me, or hanging out with me. I just choose not to share in post peoples burdens because I have my own burdens to bare and its a great way to lose a friendship if someone 'expects' you to help and you don't. Though, I suppose each person expects their own world to revolve around them and those whom don't get on, are left off. So be it.

Originally posted by togtog:

No, I don't see it as an issue of charity, or taxes, or defense or libraries or anything like that. I see it as an issue of moronic individuals thinking they can gain some type of image because of what they do 'over seas'. For me personally, if someone chooses to help, they choose to do something to help fix the world, they need to start in their own backyard. They need to adopt kids in this country. They need to do things to help their home country and not someone elses. America is so jacked up because everything is becoming outsourced and offshore. It is completely ridiculous and the people are paying the price, some more than others.

Originally posted by littlegett:

Do as ye wish, harm ye none.

Originally posted by togtog:

Do as ye wish, but don't push strong opinions on you, harmless as they are :P

Sorry I poke fun only.

It is the Pagan creed, you shouldn't poke fun.

10/03/2008 01:03:46 PM · #49

Originally posted by coronamv:

Jeb your right as I stated above there are things that are out of our control. The issue is whos responsibility is it to fix those things? WHat I see is that most people use these things as excuses instead of picking themselves up and fixing the problem they are in. Which usually is directly or indirectly related to an action they chose somewhere down their path in life. K10 if you have not read earlier post I have made I say it is not societies responsibility to fix your problems it is for your family, church and friends... Those around me know me to be a kind and giving individual. Strangers I could care less if they live or die.This is not because I am an evil person it is because they do not matter to me. I am just being honest. Most people claim one thing then do another. With me you get it without the suger and milk. Does it seem harsh? Yes when all you know about me is my world view and not the person.

I almost agreed with you till that statement above. It is NO ONES responsibility except your own. If others are willing to and are able to help than great, thats awesome, but don't expect them to just because they are family or friends or church... everyone eats chit and no one is perfect. If you expect them to be there, and they are not, it just creates more drama then is worth to even worry about in the first place.