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11/21/2008 01:07:32 PM · #1276 |
Heck, I seem to be extremely liberal, but I think of myself as basically conservative....
R.
Message edited by author 2008-11-21 13:08:54.
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11/21/2008 01:12:17 PM · #1277 |
| Glad to see another basically impure person. ;-) Jason, you're fairly off the charts in the purity realm! |
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11/21/2008 01:18:34 PM · #1278 |
My scores are as follows.
Harm - 4.8
Fairness - 4.8
Loyalty - 1.0
Authority - 0.5
Purity - 0.2
So, basically, I'm impure, fairly disloyal and have little respect for authority. |
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11/21/2008 01:21:56 PM · #1279 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
So, basically, I'm impure, fairly disloyal and have little respect for authority. |
You had to take a test?.......8>)
I think I'm impure, loyal to a degree, and have NO respect for authority for authority's sake.
I gotta know WHY you say I can't do that, and "Because" isn't a reason.....LOL!!!!
I'm going to take the test just for giggles.
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11/21/2008 01:34:22 PM · #1280 |
Okay....here I is....
Okay.....fixed.....I hate trying to figure out why I can't do this stuff.....8>(
Message edited by author 2008-11-21 13:38:28.
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11/21/2008 01:50:28 PM · #1281 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by dahkota:
Jesus says love everyone. treat everyone as you would like to be treated. To love, accept, and respect a person for who they are, not for what they are, is the most wonderful gift you can give. To accept marriage in all its forms is the best way to show that you love, respect, and accept people in all their forms. |
See, this is to me the crux of Christianity. |
Why is it that so many misconstrue the "love" that Jesus commands believers to demonstrate with "acceptance", and then use that fallacious premise to claim that Christians aren't following the teachings of Jesus?
While Jesus did say that we should "love" our neighbors as ourselves, he didn't say that we should "accept" their every thought, word, and deed.
1) Matthew 23 verses 13-33 relate how Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites, serpents, and vipers, and likened them to whitewashed tombs. Does likening someone to a whitewashed tomb sound like acceptance?
2) John 2 verses 14-17 describe how Jesus drove the money changers from the temple, and overturned their tables. Does overturning tables sound like acceptance?
3) In Revelation 3:19 Jesus says "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent". Does rebuking sound like acceptance?
There is much more written by the Apostle Paul that shows that it is not only acceptable but required that believers not "accept" sinful behavior, but I wanted to limit my response to a few of the things that Jesus himself did and said that show that "acceptance" and "love" are not the same.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
If you can live by these simple concepts, you will be a truly good person. |
But you CAN'T live by those simple concepts 100% of the time. And, even though Jesus could, and did, even he didn't profess to be good. Mark 10:18 says ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."" |
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11/21/2008 01:50:57 PM · #1282 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Okay.....fixed.....I hate trying to figure out why I can't do this stuff.....8>( |
We are almost clones, except you respect authority more than I do...
R.
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11/21/2008 01:55:16 PM · #1283 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
If you can live by these simple concepts, you will be a truly good person. |
But you CAN'T live by those simple concepts 100% of the time. And, even though Jesus could, and did, even he didn't profess to be good. Mark 10:18 says ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."" |
That is the awesomest thing I've ever heard you say. |
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11/21/2008 01:58:43 PM · #1284 |
Originally posted by dahkota:
Jesus says love everyone. treat everyone as you would like to be treated. To love, accept, and respect a person for who they are, not for what they are, is the most wonderful gift you can give. To accept marriage in all its forms is the best way to show that you love, respect, and accept people in all their forms. |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
See, this is to me the crux of Christianity. |
Originally posted by RonB:
Why is it that so many misconstrue the "love" that Jesus commands believers to demonstrate with "acceptance", and then use that fallacious premise to claim that Christians aren't following the teachings of Jesus?
While Jesus did say that we should "love" our neighbors as ourselves, he didn't say that we should "accept" their every thought, word, and deed.
1) Matthew 23 verses 13-33 relate how Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites, serpents, and vipers, and likened them to whitewashed tombs. Does likening someone to a whitewashed tomb sound like acceptance?
2) John 2 verses 14-17 describe how Jesus drove the money changers from the temple, and overturned their tables. Does overturning tables sound like acceptance?
3) In Revelation 3:19 Jesus says "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent". Does rebuking sound like acceptance?
There is much more written by the Apostle Paul that shows that it is not only acceptable but required that believers not "accept" sinful behavior, but I wanted to limit my response to a few of the things that Jesus himself did and said that show that "acceptance" and "love" are not the same.
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
If you can live by these simple concepts, you will be a truly good person. |
But you CAN'T live by those simple concepts 100% of the time. And, even though Jesus could, and did, even he didn't profess to be good. Mark 10:18 says ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone."" |
You just proved my point exactly.
You want to nit-pick, prosetylize, argue/debate, and try everything you can to weasel out of the basic premise.
You go for it with your obfuscation......I'm just going to try to be the best person I can be based on the simple premise.
I'll leave the navel-gazing to you scholars.
Oh, and you're not quoting Jesus, you're quoting Mark, Matthew, Paul, and John, aren't you? You go with that if that's what you like.
The only thing that seems to be consistent is the premise that Cortenay put forth about Jesus' love......there is too much interpretation for me in the details.
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11/21/2008 01:59:24 PM · #1285 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Glad to see another basically impure person. ;-) Jason, you're fairly off the charts in the purity realm! |
I got the results back from my dad. He was a 2.7 on Purity which is much more inline with the typical conservative (which he is). His other scores were very much like mine except he was about a whole point lower on fairness.
Seeing these results do reveal why we (meaning most on the thread, not just Louis) can't see eye to eye. Makes lots of sense. I did like in the video Haidt's attempt at a possible "bridge of understanding" for the liberal as to this odd emphasis of Purity for conservatives (especially in the sexual realm). He mentioned that for some liberals the issue has become food. Many are vegetarian, vegan or organic only. If there are members on the list who fall into one of those categories, perhaps they can at least associate some of the same principles with sexual purity. (I realize it's not going to be a direct correlation there). |
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11/21/2008 01:59:41 PM · #1286 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Okay.....fixed.....I hate trying to figure out why I can't do this stuff.....8>( |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
We are almost clones, except you respect authority more than I do...
R. |
That's just weird.....I really feel that I have an incredible disdain for authority.
ETA: You look much better with facial hair than I do, too!.....8>)
Message edited by author 2008-11-21 14:01:47.
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11/21/2008 02:00:06 PM · #1287 |
[thumb]740807[/thumb]
I was not surprised.
I can't figure out how to post it full size, lol!
Message edited by author 2008-11-21 14:06:11. |
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11/21/2008 02:06:46 PM · #1288 |
Originally posted by Kelli:
[thumb]740807[/thumb]
I was not surprised.
I can't figure out how to post it full size, lol! |
Man, DPC is apparently crawling with impurity. I think I need a shower... ;) |
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11/21/2008 02:07:59 PM · #1289 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
You just proved my point exactly.
You want to nit-pick, prosetylize, argue/debate, and try everything you can to weasel out of the basic premise.
You go for it with your obfuscation......I'm just going to try to be the best person I can be based on the simple premise.
I'll leave the navel-gazing to you scholars.
Oh, and you're not quoting Jesus, you're quoting Mark, Matthew, Paul, and John, aren't you? You go with that if that's what you like.
The only thing that seems to be consistent is the premise that Cortenay put forth about Jesus' love......there is too much interpretation for me in the details. |
Well, first of all, it's Matthew and John quoting Jesus, and Mark relating his actions.
Secondly, if it's not valid to reference the bible, then where did Cortenay get the idea that Jesus said to love everyone? Yet I didn't see any post from you criticizing her.
When people misinterpret scripture, I feel compelled to respond with scripture. No proselytizing intended, just rebuttal. |
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11/21/2008 02:14:57 PM · #1290 |
Oh, and FYI, here's where I fall ( no surprises, I'll bet ):
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11/21/2008 02:21:39 PM · #1291 |
| OK, Ron wins. he is apparently the most moral of us all. (that's a joke just to be clear. I do not equate having higher scores on more axes to mean "more moral". Just being careful here lest I stir up a bees nest. ;)) |
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11/21/2008 02:27:29 PM · #1292 |
I think this chart is very revealing. And disturbing. As far as accurately quoting Jesus, you might be interested in Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman (seen discussing the book in this video, already discussed elsewhere on this site). I've just started this book, and it's difficult to put down (physically, that is). It's an excellent read.
For what it's worth, if there's any Christian alive who can picture Jesus running around inside an Anglican church turning over chairs, pushing the "bride" onto his or her bottom, and generally throwing a hissy fit of messianic proportions because his kind of love is all about angrily demonstrating against "sin", it's a troubled, weird, and sick world indeed. |
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11/21/2008 02:27:49 PM · #1293 |
Well, I took the test, but haven't the faintest idea how to put the pretty graphics here.
So, my green numbers:
Harm: 3.3
Fairness: 3.8
Loyalty: 2.8
Authority: 3.0
Purity: 2.5
Interesting - I line up with the liberals on Harm and Fairness, and with the conservatives on everything else. |
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11/21/2008 02:36:50 PM · #1294 |
I cannot believe all you people actually (axially) took this test. (And posted the results). Does anyone seriously believe that fuzzy parameters/axes and statistics will tell us anything we truly need to know about ourselves?
Maybe if you can show me how this helps people for and against gay marriage to achieve rapprochement I will be less chagrined. |
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11/21/2008 02:42:33 PM · #1295 |
Originally posted by tnun:
I cannot believe all you people actually (axially) took this test. (And posted the results). Does anyone seriously believe that fuzzy parameters/axes and statistics will tell us anything we truly need to know about ourselves?
Maybe if you can show me how this helps people for and against gay marriage to achieve rapprochement I will be less chagrined. |
It's an interesting analysis of surface attitudes to generalized moral issues, and from the few here who have participated, it appears to be fairly accurate. What's the harm? Nobody's living their lives by charts and questions, but as a tool for sketching broad trends, it's nothing if not interesting. |
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11/21/2008 02:57:18 PM · #1296 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by tnun:
I cannot believe all you people actually (axially) took this test. (And posted the results). Does anyone seriously believe that fuzzy parameters/axes and statistics will tell us anything we truly need to know about ourselves?
Maybe if you can show me how this helps people for and against gay marriage to achieve rapprochement I will be less chagrined. |
It's an interesting analysis of surface attitudes to generalized moral issues, and from the few here who have participated, it appears to be fairly accurate. What's the harm? Nobody's living their lives by charts and questions, but as a tool for sketching broad trends, it's nothing if not interesting. |
Since I found out I was so high on the purity scale, I have cleaned my desk twice, washed my hands more times than I can count, and am considering eating Kosher for lunch... |
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11/21/2008 03:00:01 PM · #1297 |
Originally posted by Louis:
I think this chart is very revealing. And disturbing. As far as accurately quoting Jesus, you might be interested in Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman (seen discussing the book in this video, already discussed elsewhere on this site). I've just started this book, and it's difficult to put down (physically, that is). It's an excellent read.
For what it's worth, if there's any Christian alive who can picture Jesus running around inside an Anglican church turning over chairs, pushing the "bride" onto his or her bottom, and generally throwing a hissy fit of messianic proportions because his kind of love is all about angrily demonstrating against "sin", it's a troubled, weird, and sick world indeed. |
To me, the most revealing Jesus story in this application might be when he confronts the woman caught in adultery. First he chastises those who are ready to kill her by pointing out their hypocricy, second he forgives her, third he tells her to "go and sin no more". That seems to be a good integration of the axes. :) |
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11/21/2008 03:00:37 PM · #1298 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by tnun:
I cannot believe all you people actually (axially) took this test. (And posted the results). Does anyone seriously believe that fuzzy parameters/axes and statistics will tell us anything we truly need to know about ourselves?
Maybe if you can show me how this helps people for and against gay marriage to achieve rapprochement I will be less chagrined. |
It's an interesting analysis of surface attitudes to generalized moral issues, and from the few here who have participated, it appears to be fairly accurate. What's the harm? Nobody's living their lives by charts and questions, but as a tool for sketching broad trends, it's nothing if not interesting. |
See? My chart predicted I would react to your rather authoritarian dismissal of its relevance. |
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11/21/2008 03:02:50 PM · #1299 |
Originally posted by Louis:
I think this chart is very revealing. And disturbing. As far as accurately quoting Jesus, you might be interested in Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman (seen discussing the book in this video, already discussed elsewhere on this site). I've just started this book, and it's difficult to put down (physically, that is). It's an excellent read.
For what it's worth, if there's any Christian alive who can picture Jesus running around inside an Anglican church turning over chairs, pushing the "bride" onto his or her bottom, and generally throwing a hissy fit of messianic proportions because his kind of love is all about angrily demonstrating against "sin", it's a troubled, weird, and sick world indeed. |
a) When both parties base their argument(s) on the same reference, it is irrelevant whether the reference is 100% true or 100% false. There can still be valid debate about which, if either, is accurately quoting the reference, or whether the reference, within itself, supports the argument(s) contextually.
b) No, I can't imagine that Jesus would do that. Jesus did not typically demonstrate angrily against "sin" ( read the story about the woman caught in adultery, or the woman at the well, for example ). But, then again, I wouldn't imagine Him attending such a wedding and bringing along a wedding gift.
c) FWIW, the only angry demonstrations I've heard about vis-a-vis gay marriage have been those sponsored by the proponents of gay marriage, not those opposed. The angry demonstrators have even taken to disrupting worship services in churches - though to be fair, I haven't heard that they knocked over pews.
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11/21/2008 03:04:40 PM · #1300 |
Harm - 4.3
Fairness - 4.5
Loyalty - 1.7
Authority - 2
Purity - 1
Hmmm...
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