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12/02/2009 03:08:13 PM · #3026 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
[It] has little if anything to do with human input. |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Huh? |
Right there with you, Shannon.....
Don't much follow the global warming analogy, either....
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12/02/2009 04:24:29 PM · #3027 |
Originally posted by merchillio:
This is one the the reason I'm proud to live in Quebec. But there are countries... |
Don't pretend some of us didn't catch that. ;-) |
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12/02/2009 07:47:49 PM · #3028 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by David Ey:
[It] has little if anything to do with human input. |
Huh? |
Well, I'm a bit tired and old and I guess that comment was somewhat hard to read but what I meant was,imo, humans have had very little impact on this heating/cooling cycles the earth has been going through for millions of years. But I think you knew what I meant.
Anyway, back to your queer stuff. |
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12/02/2009 09:04:00 PM · #3029 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Anyway, back to your queer stuff. |
Wow.
You're a real thoughtful and compassionate person, huh?
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12/02/2009 10:23:34 PM · #3030 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by David Ey:
[It] has little if anything to do with human input. |
Huh? |
...Anyway, back to your queer stuff. |
The level of caring and compassion you exhibit leaves me absolutely breathless... not surprised mind you...just breathless.
Ray |
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12/03/2009 09:23:02 AM · #3031 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by merchillio:
This is one the the reason I'm proud to live in Quebec. But there are countries... |
Don't pretend some of us didn't catch that. ;-) |
Don't get me wrong, I love Canada, it's a wonderful and beautiful country, but.... But somehow, even more so since Haper's election, I feel that we are way too different. Oh we share the same fondamental values, no question about it, but... we have some differences (gun control, abortion, a Science and Technology Minister who is a proud creationist, Climate change). Geography may explain a few differences too: normal the prairies don't approve of the Kyoto Protocol; they re;ly mostly on cole, we have a sh*tload of rivers for hydroelectricity, etc...
Then again, not all of ROC approves of the PCC politics, I know that.
A great movie about the "two solitudes" is "Bon cop, Bad cop" (a buddy cop movie about a french canadian cop and a Ontario cop who have to team up to solve a serial killing case. spoiler: they don't get along very well)
It's hard to describe the feeling of having to defend your culture everyday. I go shopping in Montreal Downtown, in my hometown, and I have to fight to be served in french (Future shop is the worst).
to paraphrase David Ey: Back to our "equality and same rights for all" stuff
Message edited by author 2009-12-03 09:31:50. |
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12/03/2009 10:07:23 AM · #3032 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by David Ey:
Anyway, back to your queer stuff. |
Wow.
You're a real thoughtful and compassionate person, huh? |
The level of caring and compassion you exhibit leaves me absolutely breathless... not surprised mind you...just breathless.
Ray
Is this because I used the word queer? The same word used by homosexuals worldwide? |
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12/03/2009 10:08:48 AM · #3033 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Anyway, back to your queer stuff. |
lol, comedy. Aren't you late for your Westboro Baptist Church meeting?
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12/03/2009 10:28:13 AM · #3034 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
The same word used by homosexuals worldwide? |
Yes, just like the N-word is used by afro-americans... but I wouldn't use it |
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12/03/2009 10:32:31 AM · #3035 |
| If David's really 82 per his profile (which I guess I doubt), I'd cut him slack. My Dad's 75 and still uses words like "chinaman". Completely jarring, but he's not actually a bigot. Time heals all wounds and erases all bigotry (and also makes the profane sacred and the sacred profane). |
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12/03/2009 10:34:48 AM · #3036 |
Originally posted by merchillio:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by merchillio:
This is one the the reason I'm proud to live in Quebec. But there are countries... |
Don't pretend some of us didn't catch that. ;-) |
Don't get me wrong, I love Canada, it's a wonderful and beautiful country, but.... But somehow, even more so since Haper's election, I feel that we are way too different. |
At the risk of totally derailing this thread into something else, I have to say that I 100% agree with your post in every way, and sometimes I wish I was a Quebecer. |
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12/03/2009 10:41:12 AM · #3037 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Anyway, back to your queer stuff. |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Wow.
You're a real thoughtful and compassionate person, huh? |
Originally posted by RayEthier:
The level of caring and compassion you exhibit leaves me absolutely breathless... not surprised mind you...just breathless.
Ray |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Is this because I used the word queer? The same word used by homosexuals worldwide? |
My black crack dealer used to call me his "niggah", but considering I was pretty much supporting him, it was in context.....yet oddly enough, I didn't feel free to call him that.
I knew my place in that relationship.
If you could make us believe from your past history, and the indication of your attitudes that you were using it as a slang term of endearment, that'd be one thing, but we all know that's a lie, don't we?
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12/03/2009 11:06:39 AM · #3038 |
Spotted on a Clients from Hell site:
We were building a website for a client that has a preschool and sells curriculum. Just before we went live, they called up and asked us to remove the word âschoolâ from all the page titles and URLs. I asked why. They responded:
âWe heard if the gays find out we have a preschool, they can force us to teach the children to be gay. We think its safest if nobody can see that weâre a school. And we donât want to come up on any Google searches dealing with âschool.ââ |
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12/07/2009 12:26:17 PM · #3039 |
Originally posted by Matthew:
Originally posted by David Ey:
So, in answer to the question "Are gay rights, including gay marriage, evolving?"
the answer must be yes. The world has been down this road before. |
I guess that the implied element of the question is "Are gay rights, including gay marriage, evolving for the better?" |
Matthew I thought long and hard about the title of this Thread: âAre gay rights, including gay marriage, evolving?â
While I personally hope, someday, the title can be changed to âGay rights, including gay marriage are evolving for the better.â it seemed necessary to make the title as neutral as possible for balanced discussion.
On another subject,
Originally posted by Louis:
If David's really 82 per his profile (which I guess I doubt), I'd cut him slack. My Dad's 75 and still uses words like "chinaman". Completely jarring, but he's not actually a bigot. Time heals all wounds and erases all bigotry (and also makes the profane sacred and the sacred profane). |
A lady seldom tells her age, but mine is well known. I am also 75. My parents used the ethnic slur words with abandon and â oh yes, - they were bigoted. I thought their generation was the last and that we had heard the end of such bigotry. Obviously, it was not.
We must realize that bigots are hatched and nurtured newly every day. So the battles & the war continues.
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12/07/2009 12:43:13 PM · #3040 |
I agree that we shouldn't expect bigotry to disappear. But things are unquestionably different now than they were fifty or sixty years ago. Different for the better (acceptance-wise, not necessarily stereotype- or quality-wise). When I was twenty in 1984, it would have been unheard of to see gay men in the mainstream media à la Will & Grace, or, for Canadians, Scott Thompson's show "My Fabulous Gay Wedding", or a slew of other shows and personalities, or seeing the burly Mike Holmes of "Holmes on Homes" and his construction crew of hulking men doing a major house reconstruction for a gay couple, or the commercials for some women's clothing store featuring the snarky gay Mr. Blackwell-esque fashionistas. For better or worse, it's culturally savvy to be gay-positive, and that's a level of acceptance that would have been unthinkable a short time ago.
My folks with their "chinaman" monikers and David Ey saying "queer" pejoratively are left in the middle. Their previous universally accepted conceptions, not even bordering on out-and-out hate but tainted with what is now an unpalatable level of bigotry, is perhaps not true bigotry at all, but rather an artefact from another time. Their views have been obliterated by growing tolerance, as it should be, but as individuals from another time, they can hardly be faulted for reflecting the majority view of that time. It might seem jarring and ugly, but I wouldn't necessarily count them as ugly individuals (the lack of a profile picture in David's case notwithstanding). |
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12/07/2009 08:27:10 PM · #3041 |
Originally posted by Louis:
I agree that we shouldn't expect bigotry to disappear. But things are unquestionably different now than they were fifty or sixty years ago. Different for the better (acceptance-wise, not necessarily stereotype- or quality-wise). When I was twenty in 1984, it would have been unheard of to see gay men in the mainstream media à la Will & Grace, or, for Canadians, Scott Thompson's show "My Fabulous Gay Wedding", or a slew of other shows and personalities, or seeing the burly Mike Holmes of "Holmes on Homes" and his construction crew of hulking men doing a major house reconstruction for a gay couple, or the commercials for some women's clothing store featuring the snarky gay Mr. Blackwell-esque fashionistas. For better or worse, it's culturally savvy to be gay-positive, and that's a level of acceptance that would have been unthinkable a short time ago.
My folks with their "chinaman" monikers and David Ey saying "queer" pejoratively are left in the middle. Their previous universally accepted conceptions, not even bordering on out-and-out hate but tainted with what is now an unpalatable level of bigotry, is perhaps not true bigotry at all, but rather an artefact from another time. Their views have been obliterated by growing tolerance, as it should be, but as individuals from another time, they can hardly be faulted for reflecting the majority view of that time. It might seem jarring and ugly, but I wouldn't necessarily count them as ugly individuals (the lack of a profile picture in David's case notwithstanding). |
Louis, you can pack more information and good sense into two paragraphs than many can cram into a book.
"Things are unquestionably different now than they were fifty or sixty years agoâ? Well, yeah! (in the vernacularâduh!) But it took a large segment of our population to say âwe wonât take it anymoreâ It was in 1969 that it was time for things to change. This segment of our population now refused to be prey. Anyone not familiar with the Stonewall Inn and what happened there can catch up on their reading here.
This was one of the catalysts. So much has happened since. As  Louis has so eloquently outlined.
Bigotry is alive and thrives. Itâs like kudzu or bamboo. Clip it, eradicate a chunk of it, dig out its roots. It pops up like one of those âwhack a moleâ games.
Um, I'll leave that analogy there.
Message edited by author 2009-12-07 21:17:49.
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12/07/2009 08:34:15 PM · #3042 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
We must realize that bigots are hatched ... every day. |
I might have used the verb "whelped" ... ;-) |
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12/07/2009 08:41:17 PM · #3043 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by sfalice:
We must realize that bigots are hatched ... every day. |
I might have used the verb "whelped" ... ;-) |
LOL - I have met lots of nice lady dogs.
I have not (personally) met many lady chickens, ducks.
Delicious,yes. Nice? Um.....
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12/07/2009 08:48:26 PM · #3044 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
I have not (personally) met many lady chickens, ducks. |
You should really catch filmmaker Mark Lewis' show Natural The History Of The Chicken -- you might change your opinion.
I guess my earlier comment only referred to male bigots ...
Message edited by author 2009-12-07 20:51:42. |
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12/08/2009 11:06:01 AM · #3045 |
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12/08/2009 11:13:59 AM · #3046 |
"And a leading Muslim cleric, Sheikh Ramathan Shaban Mubajje, has called for gays to be rounded up and banished to an island until they die."
Godwin alert: Madagascar Plan |
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12/08/2009 01:56:35 PM · #3047 |
A glimmer of hope in there:
Originally posted by the article:
In the United States, a coalition of Christian leaders released a statement Monday denouncing the bill.
"Regardless of the diverse theological views of our religious traditions regarding the morality of homosexuality, in our churches, communities and families, we seek to embrace our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters as God's children, worthy of respect and love," the statement read.
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12/08/2009 02:18:58 PM · #3048 |
Originally posted by merchillio:
A glimmer of hope in there:
[quote=the article]
In the United States, a coalition of Christian leaders released a statement Monday denouncing the bill.
"Regardless of the diverse theological views of our religious traditions regarding the morality of homosexuality, in our churches, communities and families, we seek to embrace our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters as God's children, worthy of respect and love," the statement read.
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It's one thing to express hatred for a group of people, but not everyone can bring themselves to follow through. Like WWII Germany, Darfur or Rwanda, few would even consider killing another human over latent hatred until approval from someone in a position of authority legitimizes crimes against humanity. |
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12/08/2009 02:53:20 PM · #3049 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by merchillio:
A glimmer of hope in there:
[quote=the article]
In the United States, a coalition of Christian leaders released a statement Monday denouncing the bill.
"Regardless of the diverse theological views of our religious traditions regarding the morality of homosexuality, in our churches, communities and families, we seek to embrace our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters as God's children, worthy of respect and love," the statement read.
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It's one thing to express hatred for a group of people, but not everyone can bring themselves to follow through. Like WWII Germany, Darfur or Rwanda, few would even consider killing another human over latent hatred until approval from someone in a position of authority legitimizes crimes against humanity. |
I agree, but they didn't just "not follow through", they took a stance against it. It takes political courage and conviction to issue such a statement. Maybe it's just me that was expecting a "not our responsibility" kind of response, but I'm positively surprised by it. |
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12/08/2009 03:17:38 PM · #3050 |
Originally posted by merchillio:
I agree, but they didn't just "not follow through", they took a stance against it. |
Religious leaders are using the same justification here to "redefine" marriage that they're using in Uganda to condone banishment or murder. It's the same righteous discrimination, just taken to different levels. My point is that the regular people of Uganda probably wouldn't even consider murder until someone in a position of authority declares it the "right" course of action. Similarly, ordinary Germans wouldn't have killed Jews, and there would be a lot more people in Darfur, Yugoslavia, Cambodia and Rwanda if not for a charismatic figure who shares an underlying hatred actually following through on it. In every case, the victims are scapegoats for the ills of society. In Uganda, homosexuals are blamed for AIDs and here it's for the erosion of family valuesâ both equally irrational. We might consider our society too civilized to resort to such extreme measures, but it's not so different. |
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