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10/03/2008 01:57:24 PM · #351 |
Hehe, good one, Paul.
Sorry about the typo that everyone quoted; of course I meant "Republican" not "Republic" slogan. |
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10/03/2008 02:04:54 PM · #352 |
| Let's hope McCain doesn't decide to fly Air Force One himself -- according to this article (no, I've not cross-referenced it) he's not that hot a pilot. |
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10/03/2008 02:09:00 PM · #353 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by dahkota:
Now, am I just really ignorant here, or is a windfall profits tax another way of taxing corporations? |
Yep, and it was equally troubling to me that she was railing against bigger government while speaking of broader powers for the Vice-President, more financial oversight and government restrictions on personal matters. What annoyed me most is that she had the gall to repeat claims already proven false or blatantly misleading many times by fact-checking organizations (Obama will raise taxes, Obama voted against the troops, Obama won't say the surge worked, etc.). I suspect part of the reason Biden just smiled on some of these points is that a response would only lend credibility to a false claim. |
And EVERYTHING Biden said was true -- he didn't mis-speak at all.
;) |
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10/03/2008 02:13:43 PM · #354 |
No wonder there is such partisanship in the Government today.
It's obvious they do that to cater to the brainwashed as is evidenced by this forum. |
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10/03/2008 02:15:56 PM · #355 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Let's hope McCain doesn't decide to fly Air Force One himself -- according to this article (no, I've not cross-referenced it) he's not that hot a pilot. |
Based on what I've seen at factcheck.org, you might want to cross-reference it. :)
(And just for the record -- at this point, I'm still undecided and not super thrilled with either party. However, I do get tired of partisan lying. If you are going to point out lies, half-truths, spin of one party, at least acknowledge that both sides have their hands in the cookie jar. One party isn't the honest innocent and the other a lying mongrel. They are both pretty heavy into repeating stuff that isn't true knowing that if you repeat it enough, people will start to accept it as true.) |
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10/03/2008 02:18:57 PM · #356 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by dahkota:
One thing, among many, that irritated me was Palin's insistence that lowing corporate taxes would help the economy and grow the number of jobs. |
How many net jobs have the "Bush tax cuts" produced? I wish someone would finally point out that this mantra is demonstrably false; that jobs are created when wealth is spread through out the populace instead of being hoarded by the financial "elite." Last year, the top 1% of the population received about 20% of the income. |
For me, the issue in this election boils down to this:
Trickle-Down Economics on the republican side or Bottom Up Economics on the democratic side.
It seems evident, from the Reagan Administration's growth of debt and government spending with HUGE tax cuts for the wealthy and big business, that trickle down doesn't work. This pattern of untax and spend, repeated by George Bush, Jr. for the last seven years has yielded us nothing but richer rich people, more corrupt politicians, and dangerous economic policies. We need to try bottom up economics for a while. It is the poor and middle class who spend most every dime they make. The rich just invest as they have everything they NEED. Which situation is better for the overall economy, better for business? The one where the most spending is done. Who cares if the price of stock rises slowly, keeping pace with the value of the company rather than the greed of the investors? What we need is a situation where "Joe 6-Pack" is comfortable enough to get a new car or go out to dinner or a movie, not a situation where the wealthy are trying to figure out which island to shelter their capital gains on. |
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10/03/2008 02:22:35 PM · #357 |
Originally posted by Phil:
No wonder there is such partisanship in the Government today.
It's obvious they do that to cater to the brainwashed as is evidenced by this forum. |
I wonder who you would consider brainwashed? |
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10/03/2008 02:27:34 PM · #358 |
Shameless...
but I thought I'd plug a semi-related image into the mix. Not exactly the Joe 6-Pack Clan. ;)
Hell, it's a photography site. Right!
FWIW, I have no interest in handing the reigns of the country over to a Ma and Pa, Joe 6-Pack team. We've already seen what a cowboy, frat-boy can do to "f-up" a country, why go back to drink at that well?
Message edited by author 2008-10-06 12:21:18. |
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10/03/2008 02:28:23 PM · #359 |
| I do personally get annoyed at the dems little trick of saying McCain won't meet with the leader of Spain. The incident was obviously a case where McCain got confused by who the question was referring to and instead of clarifying chose to answer with a non-committal line. It's silly. |
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10/03/2008 03:05:54 PM · #360 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Phil:
No wonder there is such partisanship in the Government today.
It's obvious they do that to cater to the brainwashed as is evidenced by this forum. |
I wonder who you would consider brainwashed? |
Those who'd rather point fingers at others than take a look a their own party - no matter what "side" they're on.
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 15:07:41. |
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10/03/2008 03:15:41 PM · #361 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I do personally get annoyed at the dems little trick of saying McCain won't meet with the leader of Spain. The incident was obviously a case where McCain got confused by who the question was referring to and instead of clarifying chose to answer with a non-committal line. It's silly. |
I agree that silly attacks cheapen the debate, whether it's when a candidate obviously misspeaks or when a personal quirk (e.g., a haircut) is held up as a sign of some bigger issue. Dan Quayle wasn't the brightest candidate in recent years, but it annoys me that his reputation is still tarred because he misspelled "potato(e)." |
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10/03/2008 03:59:16 PM · #362 |
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10/03/2008 04:30:55 PM · #363 |
I personally think its a sad commentary on the state of this country that our politics have been downgraded even below the level of sound bites.
Now it is buzzwords, or in many cases buzzword.
"Change." "Maverick." "Hockey Mom." "Folksy." "Outsider." "Insider." "Hero." "Zero."
I agree with so many of the people on this thread that have pointed out the problems with siding with one party and assuming the other side is always wrong, evil, whatever.
My mother has been a democrat her entire life. She is immensely proud of the fact that the first vote she cast was for John Kennedy. She is equally proud of the fact that she has always been willing to vote for the person she felt best suited for the position regardless of their party affiliation. She admits she has never voted for a Republican for president, but has for senate, representatives and everything down to county coroner. She has always told me- vote for who you believe in, not the party.
I personally find it utterly baffling to dismiss someone just because they belong to the republican, democrat, green, libertarian, communist or whatever party. It is as bad as dismissing someone because of their sex, religion or color of skin.
Politics in this country is no longer about who is the best qualified to lead. It is about who looks the best on televison, who wears a flag pin, who can repeat the lies enough to bring down his opponent, who can raise the most money. Politicians change their personal beliefs depending on the direction of the polls. Some suddenly start going to church because election time is rolling around. Others see the opposing party gaining popularity so they switch sides and announce "I was a _______________, but now the _____________ have taken over the party."
It offends me to no end some of the things that have been done in the name of winning a campaign. Bush's lies about McCain that derailed McCains bid for the nomination in 2000. The Swift boat lies about Kerry. The utter and complete destruction of Max Cleland- I won't even go into the utter hypocrisy of the people that destroyed Cleland with lies and now brandish McCain as an untouchable hero. The list goes on and on. You can't be clean and win in American politics. I guess its like the old saying goes: If your not cheating, your not trying. Or maybe it should be changed to: If your not lying, you're not trying.
I'am sure someone is going to point out how long dirty tricks have been a part of American politics. But don't we deserve better?
Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill had some classic arguments over policy and law. But, at the end of the day they could play golf and laugh together. There wasn't the anger and hatred there is today.
I have my bias I admit it. I think McCain sold his soul to the RNC for this run. I have issues with Obama. But I know who I think the better man for the job is. I can't stand Palin and I don't really care for Biden. I'll do what my mom told me- vote your beliefs.
I would've never voted for Ronald Reagan but he's one of the last people that I can honestly say I respect as a president. I didn't agree with his policies then, and don't today. But deep down, I believe he loved this country and its people. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about the people I see currently in office, or many of those running for office.
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10/03/2008 04:35:32 PM · #364 |
vxpra>
quote from vxpra
...assuming the other side is always wrong, evil, whatever. this = gridlock and worse. The whole process reeks. |
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10/03/2008 04:53:26 PM · #365 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I do personally get annoyed at the dems little trick of saying McCain won't meet with the leader of Spain. The incident was obviously a case where McCain got confused by who the question was referring to and instead of clarifying chose to answer with a non-committal line. It's silly. |
Yeah, I cringed at that one, but sometimes even the facts aren't so simple. From the Factcheck article pointing out that Biden was wrong to say McCain voted against troop funding: "Biden is simply wrong to say that McCain voted against that bill; he was absent and didn’t vote at all. McCain did oppose the bill, and he urged President Bush to veto it. Bush did." Yeah, he didn't actually vote against it (because he wasn't at work), but they each voted for different versions of the same bill and opposed the competing versions. |
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10/03/2008 07:52:11 PM · #366 |
Vxpra, your post is very similar to one I have posted in the "Taxes" rant going on now also, how I love a good scrum!! :)
Congressional bills are so loaded with extraneous cr*p that it's hard to know exactly why any particular congressman votes a particular way. Maybe there was a rider attached that was a deal breaker...and I'm afraid I don't have time to read through these 400-500 pg. bills to understand all the nuances, but then again I really don't think my representatives really want me knowing in any detail what they're doing back in DC anyway, so much for reform, the current system works fine for those in power...
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10/03/2008 09:18:44 PM · #367 |
I couldn't believe it when I heard this -- talk about "not getting it" and blaming the victim to boot:
From the complete debate transcript here:
Originally posted by SARAH PALIN::
"It is a crisis. It's a toxic mess, really, on Main Street that's affecting Wall Street." |
It's nice to know that all those poor bankers have merely been bamboozled by a bunch of "Joe Six-packs" ...
Message edited by author 2008-10-03 21:20:13. |
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10/05/2008 08:02:34 PM · #368 |
I'm pretty sure she just got her talking point backwards there.
What I'm getting sick about is McCain seems to be pulling no punches now that he's behind with a month to go. Does it even matter that he felt the victim of Bush's dirty tactics in 2004? Does it matter he denounced the Swiftboat campaign? If the republicans are still down with two weeks to go are they just going to start using the "N-word" in an attempt to keep office?
Let's play with some dignity people. |
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10/05/2008 08:21:32 PM · #369 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm pretty sure she just got her talking point backwards there.
What I'm getting sick about is McCain seems to be pulling no punches now that he's behind with a month to go. Does it even matter that he felt the victim of Bush's dirty tactics in 2004? Does it matter he denounced the Swiftboat campaign? If the republicans are still down with two weeks to go are they just going to start using the "N-word" in an attempt to keep office?
Let's play with some dignity people. |
This isn't really completely on topic, but you bringing up the last part reminded me that I find it ridiculous when people try and tell me that I'm racist because I don't support Obama, come on really!! I'm sick of the race card. I could care less what his race is. If Obama had the policies that I agree with, I would be on his side, it doesn't bother me that he is black. That doesn't sway my position at all.
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10/05/2008 08:53:25 PM · #370 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Does it even matter that he felt the victim of Bush's dirty tactics in 2004? Does it matter he denounced the Swiftboat campaign? |
If that mattered, he wouldn't have hired the exact same people behind both of those smears. |
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10/05/2008 09:46:09 PM · #371 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I'm pretty sure she just got her talking point backwards there. |
Perhaps revealing either how she really feels (if you believe in Freud) or that she can't even recite a well-rehearsed script correctly. |
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10/06/2008 09:33:32 AM · #372 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I do personally get annoyed at the dems little trick of saying McCain won't meet with the leader of Spain. The incident was obviously a case where McCain got confused by who the question was referring to and instead of clarifying chose to answer with a non-committal line. It's silly. |
I agree that silly attacks cheapen the debate, whether it's when a candidate obviously misspeaks or when a personal quirk (e.g., a haircut) is held up as a sign of some bigger issue. Dan Quayle wasn't the brightest candidate in recent years, but it annoys me that his reputation is still tarred because he misspelled "potato(e)." |
I think perhaps he gets such a hard time for it, not just because he got it wrong, but he publicly corrected a student in a class room for spelling it incorrectly. Better to keep your mouth shut and be ...
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10/06/2008 09:45:56 AM · #373 |
Do people in Alaska really talk like they're stuck in the movie "Fargo"?
I just don't think I can stand years of Palin's grating "You betcha." |
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10/06/2008 11:54:19 AM · #374 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Do people in Alaska really talk like they're stuck in the movie "Fargo"?
I just don't think I can stand years of Palin's grating "You betcha." |
It's like watching Strange Brew but not as funny. |
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10/06/2008 12:45:07 PM · #375 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I do personally get annoyed at the dems little trick of saying McCain won't meet with the leader of Spain. The incident was obviously a case where McCain got confused by who the question was referring to and instead of clarifying chose to answer with a non-committal line. It's silly. |
I agree that silly attacks cheapen the debate, whether it's when a candidate obviously misspeaks or when a personal quirk (e.g., a haircut) is held up as a sign of some bigger issue. Dan Quayle wasn't the brightest candidate in recent years, but it annoys me that his reputation is still tarred because he misspelled "potato(e)." |
I think perhaps he gets such a hard time for it, not just because he got it wrong, but he publicly corrected a student in a class room for spelling it incorrectly. Better to keep your mouth shut and be ... |
In Dan Quayle's defense in this particular instance, according to his own memoirs, was that he was reading from notecards that had been handed to him in order to give the students which words to spell. The word was mispelled on the notecard he was handed and "potato" is one of the more commonly mispelled words.
Message edited by L2 - Continue here. |
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