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09/18/2008 12:14:55 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Access to affordable health coverage is the only reason I'm not self employed. |
Same here. |
I understand your dilemma. I was a small business owner for quite a few years myself. Heck, even had a few employees that we offered benefits to. The thing there is that I see both sides of the aisle. If you think private insurance is a doozy just imagine what your employer pays for you to have your good insurance - not to mention your Social Security and Medicare matches (that you'll also have to pay if/when you go out on your own). The fact that we offered good insurance also brought us a better choice of employee.
I guess where we're differing is that I see it as a benefit and you think it should be a right. |
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09/18/2008 12:15:38 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by citymars:
No offense ladies and gents, but is there a way to respond with quoting everything that comes before? |
No. |
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09/18/2008 12:17:34 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Access to affordable health coverage is the only reason I'm not self employed. |
Same here. |
I understand your dilemma. I was a small business owner for quite a few years myself. Heck, even had a few employees that we offered benefits to. The thing there is that I see both sides of the aisle. If you think private insurance is a doozy just imagine what your employer pays for you to have your good insurance - not to mention your Social Security and Medicare matches (that you'll also have to pay if/when you go out on your own). The fact that we offered good insurance also brought us a better choice of employee.
I guess where we're differing is that I see it as a benefit and you think it should be a right. |
It should be affordable for all.
ETA: I know what my employer pays per month and that, added to my portion, is still a far cry from what I would pay for the same coverage on my own, assuming that I could even get coverage.
Message edited by author 2008-09-18 14:20:39. |
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09/18/2008 01:52:31 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by citymars:
No offense ladies and gents, but is there a way to respond with quoting everything that comes before? |
No. |
Oops, I meant "without quoting everything." Is your answer still "no?" |
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09/18/2008 01:54:22 PM · #130 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by citymars:
No offense ladies and gents, but is there a way to respond with quoting everything that comes before? |
No. |
Oops, I meant "without quoting everything." Is your answer still "no?" |
The answer is yes but you need to manually select what to quote. Just make sure the quote tags still line up and are for the right user.
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09/18/2008 02:37:25 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
ETA: I know what my employer pays per month and that, added to my portion, is still a far cry from what I would pay for the same coverage on my own, assuming that I could even get coverage. |
Yep, because they get a group rate. Works the same for all types of insurance. Risk pooling. Get a large group together and you can get a lower rate as well. |
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09/18/2008 02:46:14 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
ETA: I know what my employer pays per month and that, added to my portion, is still a far cry from what I would pay for the same coverage on my own, assuming that I could even get coverage. |
Yep, because they get a group rate. Works the same for all types of insurance. Risk pooling. Get a large group together and you can get a lower rate as well. |
I know why. There just aren't any large groups aside from my employer that allow acces to coverage. I've looked at coverage accessible through trade and professional organizations, but they aren't any better than coverage purchased individually. |
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09/18/2008 02:47:07 PM · #133 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Access to affordable health coverage is the only reason I'm not self employed. |
Same here. |
Access to affordable health coverage is the only reason I still have a day job. SUCKS! I work 8 hours a day in a job I that's killing me, just so when it finally does almost kill me, I can afford to fix myself. |
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09/18/2008 04:29:05 PM · #134 |
Just a reminder there is a McCain/Obama live health care debate at 5pm EST today!!
Will be posted HERE |
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09/18/2008 05:29:55 PM · #135 |
Hey Spazmo, I agree it would be nice if it was affordable for all without costing one person more than another. I'm not sure of what area of the country you live in but here BCBS offers a open entry group rate to families once a year. It does amount to the total your employer would be paying including your share. In other words you would get the group rate but not the benefit of your employer paying a share of it. So is that a bad option? or is what your asking for a group rate at the cost below what your employer is paying equating to the amount your share currently comes to?
Message edited by author 2008-09-18 17:30:16. |
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09/18/2008 06:05:49 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Hey Spazmo, I agree it would be nice if it was affordable for all without costing one person more than another. I'm not sure of what area of the country you live in but here BCBS offers a open entry group rate to families once a year. It does amount to the total your employer would be paying including your share. In other words you would get the group rate but not the benefit of your employer paying a share of it. So is that a bad option? or is what your asking for a group rate at the cost below what your employer is paying equating to the amount your share currently comes to? |
I know that how BCBS works varies from state to state, so I'll have to look into that. Thanks. |
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09/20/2008 09:23:55 AM · #137 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Your implication is that Obama supporters are the ones who care. Since I doubt that you are supporting Obama, based on your argument, you don't care. |
Here's how much Joe Biden cares:
"For 2007, Mr. Biden and his wife, Jill, paid taxes of $66,273 on an adjusted gross income of $319,853, which included $71,000 in royalties from his book. The couple, who file jointly, claimed $62,954 in deductions, including $995 in gifts to charities and $38,712 in interest payments." |
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09/20/2008 11:42:44 AM · #138 |
Originally posted by RonB:
"For 2007, Mr. Biden and his wife... claimed $995 in gifts to charities |
I agree that doesn't sound like much, even taking into consideration that Biden is one of the "least rich" members of congress. I'm sure you consider this an indication of character and therefore an indication of how well Biden can handle the job of VP. I consider this another distraction from issues. |
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09/20/2008 12:57:33 PM · #139 |
Originally posted by RonB:
"For 2007, Mr. Biden and his wife, Jill, paid taxes of $66,273 on an adjusted gross income of $319,853, which included $71,000 in royalties from his book. The couple, who file jointly, claimed $62,954 in deductions, including $995 in gifts to charities and $38,712 in interest payments." |
Yes, he probably has enough discretionary income to have made larger donations, but writing a check is not always the same as caring. (I really don't know much about him and am not making a judgment about his actions.) |
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09/21/2008 04:09:50 PM · #140 |
Obama's Social Security Whopper
as debunked by FactCheck.Org
September 20, 2008
He tells Social Security recipients their money would now be in the stock market under McCain's plan. False. |
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09/21/2008 05:39:10 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Your implication is that Obama supporters are the ones who care. Since I doubt that you are supporting Obama, based on your argument, you don't care. |
Here's how much Joe Biden cares:
"For 2007, Mr. Biden and his wife, Jill, paid taxes of $66,273 on an adjusted gross income of $319,853, which included $71,000 in royalties from his book. The couple, who file jointly, claimed $62,954 in deductions, including $995 in gifts to charities and $38,712 in interest payments." |
So?
The question is: Do you care? |
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09/21/2008 10:14:29 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Your implication is that Obama supporters are the ones who care. Since I doubt that you are supporting Obama, based on your argument, you don't care. |
Here's how much Joe Biden cares:
"For 2007, Mr. Biden and his wife, Jill, paid taxes of $66,273 on an adjusted gross income of $319,853, which included $71,000 in royalties from his book. The couple, who file jointly, claimed $62,954 in deductions, including $995 in gifts to charities and $38,712 in interest payments." |
So? |
So - why should Obama / Biden want to take money from the "wealthy", in the form of taxes, under threat of imprisonment, just so they can give the money to "their" favorite charities ( including, it seems, those who pay no federal income taxes ), because they say that we should all "care" for one another, when many of the "wealthy" they're targeting already "care" a heck of a lot more than they do?
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
The question is: Do you care? |
Yes, I do. In terms of tax-deductable giving, my wife and I give about 30 times as much as Biden, and more than twice as much as Obama. ( Maybe that's why we just got a letter from the IRS demanding proof for all or our charitable deductions. :-) )
And that only represents the tax-deductible portion of our giving. Beyond that:
a) we hired, ( at personal, not business, expense ), two unemployed men to do some remodeling for us. One of them is on probation for felony drug possession. ( And no, neither is related to either of us ). In addition to giving them employment during difficult times, we also provide them with free room and board. They've been with us for a couple of months, now. Hopefully, they'll find employment soon, as we're running out of remodeling jobs for them to do :-).
b) we are currently providing financial assistance to two college students who could not afford college otherwise ( neither is related to us ) - that's down from the year before when we were supporting three students. We also send them gift cards to food and clothing stores in their area ( they attend schools quite a distance away from us ). We even bought one of them a used car, a new laptop computer, and paid off his outstanding bills so that he could attend college.
( Note: this college financing is in addition to our own two daughters, one of whom just graduated ( major in elementary education ), and one who is a senior this year ( majoring in education ). And, just to be clear, none of the three non-related students we support(ed) go to the same college as either of our daughters ).
c) in the past five years, I have gone on two medical mission trips to the Amazon River Basin in Brazil, that provided free medical and dental care to the native peoples who live in remote villages along the Amazon and Rio Negro Rivers. In addition to medical and dental treatment, we also provide them with clothing, basic medicines ( aspirin, antibiotics, etc. ), and basic training in sanitation, healthcare and first-aid. And, we help them repair their huts and common buildings, dig drainage ditches, etc. If you look at my profile, the picture you see is me, standing in front of a native hut on one of the tributaries of the Rio Negro.
d) last year we purchased nearly 200 hardcover books and videos for our local library ( all secular :-) ).
e) and we donated three large boxes of school supplies to the local elementary school.
f) my wife has spent time as a volunteer child advocate for the Dept of Children and Youth Services ( a heartbreaking job ).
g) I've served as the Deacon in our church, my wife has served as the Youth director, and we have both taught adult Small Group Bible studies for several years. ( As an aside, let me just say that Small Group Bible studies are not just about studying the Bible - they often seem more like group therapy sessions. )
I could go on, but enough about me ( and my wife ) - how about you? Do you care? |
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09/22/2008 09:30:59 AM · #143 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Yes, I do. In terms of tax-deductable giving ... |
I sincerely commend you on your giving, Ron. However, that was Spazmo's question, not mine. The "who cares more" game -- especially among members of DPC -- is another distraction as far as I'm concerned.
Originally posted by RonB:
Obama's Social Security Whopper as debunked by FactCheck.Org |
And McCain ad misrepresents Obama's tax plan. Again. As verified by FactCheck.Org.
...So supporters of each party seem only to register the wrongs of the other party. Do you believe Obama and the Obama campaign is are more dishonest that McCain and the McCain campaign?
Message edited by author 2008-09-22 10:34:58. |
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09/22/2008 11:49:05 AM · #144 |
PHILADELPHIA — Senators John McCain and Barack Obama warned Sunday that there should be more oversight built into the government’s $700 billion plan to stabilize the financial markets but said the potentially enormous expenditure would not force them to scale back their ambitious governing agendas.
I'm afraid both candidates get a big huge raspberry from me on this one. Sure guys, suddenly overnight adding 26% to the planned budget isn't going to matter at all!
Anybody have that line from The Who going through their head? "Meet the new boss...same as the old boss"
Message edited by author 2008-09-22 11:49:26. |
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09/24/2008 12:44:36 PM · #145 |
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by RonB:
Yes, I do. In terms of tax-deductable giving ... |
I sincerely commend you on your giving, Ron. However, that was Spazmo's question, not mine. The "who cares more" game -- especially among members of DPC -- is another distraction as far as I'm concerned.
Originally posted by RonB:
Obama's Social Security Whopper as debunked by FactCheck.Org |
And McCain ad misrepresents Obama's tax plan. Again. As verified by FactCheck.Org.
...So supporters of each party seem only to register the wrongs of the other party. Do you believe Obama and the Obama campaign is are more dishonest that McCain and the McCain campaign? |
No, but what I've found from a lot of Obama supporters is that it is okay for Obama to lie every now and then, because the McCain camp lies more.
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09/24/2008 12:45:12 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
PHILADELPHIA — Senators John McCain and Barack Obama warned Sunday that there should be more oversight built into the government’s $700 billion plan to stabilize the financial markets but said the potentially enormous expenditure would not force them to scale back their ambitious governing agendas.
I'm afraid both candidates get a big huge raspberry from me on this one. Sure guys, suddenly overnight adding 26% to the planned budget isn't going to matter at all!
Anybody have that line from The Who going through their head? "Meet the new boss...same as the old boss" |
no kidding. |
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09/24/2008 01:05:50 PM · #147 |
| I'm just glad that no matter what (short of marshal law and election cancellations) there will not be a Bush on the ballot!!!! |
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09/24/2008 01:36:55 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by citymars:
Originally posted by RonB:
Yes, I do. In terms of tax-deductable giving ... |
I sincerely commend you on your giving, Ron. However, that was Spazmo's question, not mine. The "who cares more" game -- especially among members of DPC -- is another distraction as far as I'm concerned.
Originally posted by RonB:
Obama's Social Security Whopper as debunked by FactCheck.Org |
And McCain ad misrepresents Obama's tax plan. Again. As verified by FactCheck.Org.
...So supporters of each party seem only to register the wrongs of the other party. Do you believe Obama and the Obama campaign is are more dishonest that McCain and the McCain campaign? |
No, but what I've found from a lot of Obama supporters is that it is okay for Obama to lie every now and then, because the McCain camp lies more. |
The political system is structured to only allow douchebags to win. Negative ads work. McCain's only chance was to use negative ads, and he needs outright lies to go negative enough, because the truth leaves him as a big underdog. Obama's only chance to recover from those negative ads are to make negative ads of his own, not outright lies but still misleading.
People with integrity and principles, like Ralph Nader and Dennis Kucinich, will never win a national election. |
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09/24/2008 01:49:24 PM · #149 |
I wish the American political system were more like those in Europe where there might be 4 or more viable parties and the leader has to get along with enough of the other parties to form a majority instead of being able to shove whatever party line crap they want down everyone's throat.
Message edited by author 2008-09-24 13:49:46. |
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09/24/2008 02:27:50 PM · #150 |
| Either that or one good dictator |
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