McCain vs. Obama (On the Issues)

09/17/2008 08:50:44 PM · #101

Supidity-doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Not Stupidity even though you might find that fitting for your argument.
Ok you used the word Fired meaning he was terminated based on his actions that they felt were not up to a standard they wanted to persue. If he had a case of unjust the he could have sued making this point null and void

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
My answer would be to take away the free healthcare from the people who have made the choice to live a life of unemployment and supidity and give it to those deserving individuals you speak of.

Your compassion is underwhelming. May I ask how you would separate people who "choose" to live a life of unemployment and stupidity from those who are trying to find jobs, but are unable due to poor qualifications (a student forced to drop out of high school to handle a teen pregnancy), disability, specialized training in a troubled industry (airline mechanic), or living in an economically depressed area (Galveston)? My grandfather was fired from Emerson Electronics three days before he would have retired and collected a pension after 40+ years of work (yes, really). Was that a choice? :-/

Message edited by author 2008-09-17 20:52:51.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/17/2008 09:00:00 PM · #102

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
My answer would be to take away the free healthcare from the people who have made the choice to live a life of unemployment and supidity and give it to those deserving individuals you speak of.

Your compassion is underwhelming. May I ask how you would separate people who "choose" to live a life of unemployment and stupidity from those who are trying to find jobs, but are unable due to poor qualifications (a student forced to drop out of high school to handle a teen pregnancy), disability, specialized training in a troubled industry (airline mechanic), or living in an economically depressed area (Galveston)? My grandfather was fired from Emerson Electronics three days before he would have retired and collected a pension after 40+ years of work (yes, really). Was that a choice? :-/

My compassion is justified. Work with them on a daily basis like I do and you'll see.

I think you need a new career.

Ahh, but when someone tells you that you should do the same thing for insurance purposes you simply dismiss them don't you?

I remain doing what I do because there are people who need my services. As I said, there are those who didn't choose to be where they are.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/17/2008 09:00:53 PM · #103

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
You seem to be misunderstanding what a choice is and isn't.

I'm well aware of what a choice is. My question was how YOU would distinguish between them, and you didn't answer that question.

Yes I did. Not to mention that I even did it point by point.

09/17/2008 09:15:42 PM · #104

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by scalvert:
My question was how YOU would distinguish between them, and you didn't answer that question.

Yes I did. Not to mention that I even did it point by point.

No, you didn't. You answered everything with a question and did NOT explain how you would distinguish laziness from circumstance. I know people who have been out looking for a job for months without success. People who can't work as fry cooks at McDonald's. It's not that they WANT to sit and collect welfare, but that they have no choice. Even top college graduates generally take a little while to become self-sufficient.

Message edited by author 2008-09-17 21:16:05.

09/17/2008 09:19:00 PM · #105

Originally posted by coronamv:

Ok you used the word Fired meaning he was terminated based on his actions that they felt were not up to a standard they wanted to persue. If he had a case of unjust the he could have sued making this point null and void

His performance was not an issue (it was shortly after a positive review). He was fired simply because they didn't want to pay a pension. A lawsuit, even if he could afford one, would have been pointless because it was perfectly legal for companies to do that at the time.

09/17/2008 09:29:26 PM · #106

Originally posted by coronamv:

No you can do whatever you want just do it on your dime and not mine. ...It is easy to sit with no insurance, a low paying job/welfare and say you deserve what I have worked hard to achieve, but the truth is Darwin was right.

Pure capitalism is worse than pure socialism. Pure capitalism would fail simply because it cannot survive without taking advantage of others who would eventually be unable to care for themselves while pure socialism is unachievable due to the same inherent greed that powers capitalism and results in corruption. The drive to succeed makes us better, but winners require losers and it's the compassion and responsibility to care for the less fortunate that makes human (or at least comparable to chimps, dolphins and elephants that do the same).

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/17/2008 09:42:19 PM · #107

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by scalvert:
My question was how YOU would distinguish between them, and you didn't answer that question.

Yes I did. Not to mention that I even did it point by point.

No, you didn't. You answered everything with a question and did NOT explain how you would distinguish laziness from circumstance. I know people who have been out looking for a job for months without success. People who can't work as fry cooks at McDonald's. It's not that they WANT to sit and collect welfare, but that they have no choice. Even top college graduates generally take a little while to become self-sufficient.

Months? I laugh at months. Months are not even close to what I'm talking about. Months are temporary.

Try people who have been abusing the system for not only months or years but for generations. I've explained before as to how I've discussed benefits with grandma who hands the phone to mom who hands to phone to daughter with a crying baby in her arms. That's not bad luck, or overqualified, or an aspiring college grad, or a laid off electrician, or a fired 65 year old, or anything that you mentioned (other than the pregnant teen). That's laziness bred and accepted. Twist it all you like but ANYONE who works in the system I'm in will tell you the same.

pidge

Canon EOS-7D Mark II

09/17/2008 10:52:57 PM · #108

Originally posted by pawdrix:

Originally posted by pidge:
Since nobody seemed to read it in the other thread....

Pidgeee-Which plan do you think makes more sense as someone studying to be in the field and is now under a State health plan?

In all honesty, I haven't read the material thoroughly, and I don't have the time because of my classes. My brain is on neurobiology right now. And I also know who I'm voting for. If I do find the time to read it, I will let you know, but I can't guarantee it. Anyways, nobody ever reads what I post anyways... 'cept you ;)

But while we are on the subject...

Healthcare/debate forum, live this Thursday
HERE

RonB

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

09/17/2008 11:58:40 PM · #109

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by RonB:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
What about those people who have reached their zenith in life with a min wage job at McD's? What about people who have an "oops" baby and see their income drop? What about that baby or maybe you'd have people qualify to have a child like they were getting a mortgage and dictate mandatory termination for those who don't qualify. What about those people who are retired and have their pensions taken away through no fault of their own? What about people who get their job sold out from under them by some greedy CEO and shareholders?

Maybe Obama can build a database with the names and home addresses of all of his supporters and distribute a list of all the local addresses at the homeless shelters. Then all those in dire need can come and live with those who truly care. :-)

Your true character shines like a beacon.

It's interesting that you can say that, since we've never really had an open discussion about how I treat those in need, what I do on a personal level, how I spend my income, etc.

Your implication is that Obama supporters are the ones who care. Since I doubt that you are supporting Obama, based on your argument, you don't care.

I'm not surprised.

What I implied is that Obama supporters ( primarily liberals ) are the ones who SAY they care, but really don't when it comes right down to it.

In 2007 Arthur C Brooks published a book about his study that found that

-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.

-- Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.

-- Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.

-- In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.

-- People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

tate

Apple iPhone 15 Pro

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

09/18/2008 12:03:16 AM · #110

Or â�¦ are they just the people that claim it as a tax deduction ?

09/18/2008 01:19:58 AM · #111

Damn we just can't explain anything without it being twisted. Unless you give enough to itemize below the line then you don't recoupe enough above the line for it to matter on giving or not. I give an average of 5 percent per year of my salary to United Way and donate blood to the Red Cross. I do not recoupe anything.

Originally posted by metatate:

Or â�¦ are they just the people that claim it as a tax deduction ?

09/18/2008 04:26:18 AM · #112

Originally posted by coronamv:

No you can do whatever you want just do it on your dime and not mine. See and you keep saying I have no compassion. You are Right. I do not care for those who are not in my care. What they do is their business until it infringes on me. IE WELFARE! There is no such thing as an OOPS baby. OOPS means you did not take to proper precautions. IE Birth control or Abstance. Again not my issue if you cannot control your urges. What if people reach their Zenith in life at a minimum wage job at McDonald's, then you get back what effort you put into life. That is reality. The great crime you speak of with the pensions being stoled away is true. I cannot disagree that those people who comitted the acts should be punished. On the same note if you put all your eggs in one basket and the basket breaks then your out of eggs. The funny thing you said about the greedy CEO and Shareholders, do you not realize the shareholders in most of these companies were the ones who lost their pensions. Now they did not complain when the numbers were stacked funny and they were making a good return on their investment did they? The simple truth is when you stop making excuses and stop relying on others and start relying on yourself then there is no one to blame when you fall short but yourself. It is easy to sit with no insurance, a low paying job/welfare and say you deserve what I have worked hard to achieve, but the truth is Darwin was right.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Once again I ask the question when did healthcare become a right? Ok Spazmo you say I live in a fantasy world, Hmm where I come from hard work and education grants you certain benefits. I believe in a merit based system you work you get, you work harder you get more. You select a field that people are willing to pay you for your education or skill set then you get paid for them. You choose to drop out of high school or not to persue a higher education then you don't get equal or better pay. Simple. Along with you keep your cloths on and choose not to have a family until your financialy stable to have one and that means a nest egg and the ability to overcome most hardships that may come your way. Most people make the decisions that land them in the hot water they are in.

Not everyone is as brilliant and capable as you. I suppose you'd just leave the rest to suffer and die, that's just how you are.

What about those people who have reached their zenith in life with a min wage job at McD's? What about people who have an "oops" baby and see their income drop? What about that baby or maybe you'd have people qualify to have a child like they were getting a mortgage and dictate mandatory termination for those who don't qualify. What about those people who are retired and have their pensions taken away through no fault of their own? What about people who get their job sold out from under them by some greedy CEO and shareholders?

09/18/2008 04:40:56 AM · #113

Originally posted by RonB:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by RonB:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
What about those people who have reached their zenith in life with a min wage job at McD's? What about people who have an "oops" baby and see their income drop? What about that baby or maybe you'd have people qualify to have a child like they were getting a mortgage and dictate mandatory termination for those who don't qualify. What about those people who are retired and have their pensions taken away through no fault of their own? What about people who get their job sold out from under them by some greedy CEO and shareholders?

Maybe Obama can build a database with the names and home addresses of all of his supporters and distribute a list of all the local addresses at the homeless shelters. Then all those in dire need can come and live with those who truly care. :-)

Your true character shines like a beacon.

It's interesting that you can say that, since we've never really had an open discussion about how I treat those in need, what I do on a personal level, how I spend my income, etc.

Your implication is that Obama supporters are the ones who care. Since I doubt that you are supporting Obama, based on your argument, you don't care.

I'm not surprised.

What I implied is that Obama supporters ( primarily liberals ) are the ones who SAY they care, but really don't when it comes right down to it.

In 2007 Arthur C Brooks published a book about his study that found that

-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.

-- Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.

-- Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.

-- In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.

-- People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

Hmmmm yes, I've read the book and while it's interesting, it leaves much to be desired unless you're conservative, devout and want to feel better about yourself. Brooks simply ignores data on happiness that doesn't support his conclusions.

09/18/2008 04:47:12 AM · #114

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
My answer would be to take away the free healthcare from the people who have made the choice to live a life of unemployment and supidity and give it to those deserving individuals you speak of.

Your compassion is underwhelming. May I ask how you would separate people who "choose" to live a life of unemployment and stupidity from those who are trying to find jobs, but are unable due to poor qualifications (a student forced to drop out of high school to handle a teen pregnancy), disability, specialized training in a troubled industry (airline mechanic), or living in an economically depressed area (Galveston)? My grandfather was fired from Emerson Electronics three days before he would have retired and collected a pension after 40+ years of work (yes, really). Was that a choice? :-/

My compassion is justified. Work with them on a daily basis like I do and you'll see.

I think you need a new career.

Ahh, but when someone tells you that you should do the same thing for insurance purposes you simply dismiss them don't you?

I remain doing what I do because there are people who need my services. As I said, there are those who didn't choose to be where they are.

Why would I need a new career? Unlike you, I'm quite satisfied with the one I have.

You just sound jaded, burned out and uncaring.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/18/2008 08:17:55 AM · #115

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
My answer would be to take away the free healthcare from the people who have made the choice to live a life of unemployment and supidity and give it to those deserving individuals you speak of.

Your compassion is underwhelming. May I ask how you would separate people who "choose" to live a life of unemployment and stupidity from those who are trying to find jobs, but are unable due to poor qualifications (a student forced to drop out of high school to handle a teen pregnancy), disability, specialized training in a troubled industry (airline mechanic), or living in an economically depressed area (Galveston)? My grandfather was fired from Emerson Electronics three days before he would have retired and collected a pension after 40+ years of work (yes, really). Was that a choice? :-/

My compassion is justified. Work with them on a daily basis like I do and you'll see.

I think you need a new career.

Ahh, but when someone tells you that you should do the same thing for insurance purposes you simply dismiss them don't you?

I remain doing what I do because there are people who need my services. As I said, there are those who didn't choose to be where they are.

Why would I need a new career? Unlike you, I'm quite satisfied with the one I have.

You just sound jaded, burned out and uncaring.

Yeah, you sound like you're a real happy person! "I love my job but the insurance sucks and I think the the taxpayers should keep me up in that area!!"

What I'm burned out on are the abusers of the system. I have not a single problem with those that deserve it and am very satisfied with that aspect. If not, I wouldn't be here.

09/18/2008 08:50:28 AM · #116

Originally posted by Phil:

What I'm burned out on are the abusers of the system. I have not a single problem with those that deserve it and am very satisfied with that aspect. If not, I wouldn't be here.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting a free ride for abusers. That's as ludicrous as refusing short-term support for disaster survivors. The problem of accurately determining real need remains.

Tamron SP AF 17-50mm f/2.8 Di II LD Aspherical (IF) for Canon

09/18/2008 09:36:17 AM · #117

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
What I'm burned out on are the abusers of the system. I have not a single problem with those that deserve it and am very satisfied with that aspect. If not, I wouldn't be here.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting a free ride for abusers. That's as ludicrous as refusing short-term support for disaster survivors. The problem of accurately determining real need remains.

But a free ride for the abusers is exactly what we have. I see it daily. As I said, an overwhelming majority of the people receiving aid are abusing the system. Now your definition of abuse might differ from mine but I just don't agree with giving someone a check, free food and insurance just because they choose not to finish something as basic as high school.

What we need to do is take care of those that are down on their luck: you know, those you spoke of earlier. The thing is that pretty much NONE of them could receive as much assistance as these I deal with because of their assets that they've WORKED HARD FOR. Once those assets are dissolved they could get some benefit. Something very wrong with that.

Message edited by author 2008-09-18 10:04:51.

09/18/2008 11:03:27 AM · #118

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
My answer would be to take away the free healthcare from the people who have made the choice to live a life of unemployment and supidity and give it to those deserving individuals you speak of.

Your compassion is underwhelming. May I ask how you would separate people who "choose" to live a life of unemployment and stupidity from those who are trying to find jobs, but are unable due to poor qualifications (a student forced to drop out of high school to handle a teen pregnancy), disability, specialized training in a troubled industry (airline mechanic), or living in an economically depressed area (Galveston)? My grandfather was fired from Emerson Electronics three days before he would have retired and collected a pension after 40+ years of work (yes, really). Was that a choice? :-/

My compassion is justified. Work with them on a daily basis like I do and you'll see.

I think you need a new career.

Ahh, but when someone tells you that you should do the same thing for insurance purposes you simply dismiss them don't you?

I remain doing what I do because there are people who need my services. As I said, there are those who didn't choose to be where they are.

Why would I need a new career? Unlike you, I'm quite satisfied with the one I have.

You just sound jaded, burned out and uncaring.

Yeah, you sound like you're a real happy person! "I love my job but the insurance sucks and I think the the taxpayers should keep me up in that area!!"

What I'm burned out on are the abusers of the system. I have not a single problem with those that deserve it and am very satisfied with that aspect. If not, I wouldn't be here.

No, the insurance at my job is just fine. I also like the work I do. What I don't like is surrendering control over my career and life to the people in management, who, frankly, don't give a rip.

I'm tied to a life in a corporation simply because they offer a benefit subsidy. I'd quit tomorrow and work for myself if purchasing private health insurance wasn't ridiculously expensive, assuming that I could even get coverage for my family at all. Note that I'm not talking about sitting on my butt watching Oprah and eating bon-bons all day. I simply want to be able to take my kids to the doctor and not have to sell my house to do so. Private insurance would cost me approximately 2x my mortgage payment.

09/18/2008 11:07:22 AM · #119

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I'd quit tomorrow and work for myself if purchasing private health insurance wasn't ridiculously expensive, assuming that I could even get coverage for my family at all.

Bingo!

09/18/2008 11:25:25 AM · #120

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Really? You think that people are only limited by how hard they try and not their innate capacity that no one is more intelligent than another? And that birth control is 100% effective? And to say that a company's shareholders are comprised mainly of their employees is, in most cases, laughable.

At least you admit that you lack compassion for your fellow human beings and really are as disgusting as you portray yourself.

Originally posted by coronamv:
No you can do whatever you want just do it on your dime and not mine. See and you keep saying I have no compassion. You are Right. I do not care for those who are not in my care. What they do is their business until it infringes on me. IE WELFARE! There is no such thing as an OOPS baby. OOPS means you did not take to proper precautions. IE Birth control or Abstance. Again not my issue if you cannot control your urges. What if people reach their Zenith in life at a minimum wage job at McDonald's, then you get back what effort you put into life. That is reality. The great crime you speak of with the pensions being stoled away is true. I cannot disagree that those people who comitted the acts should be punished. On the same note if you put all your eggs in one basket and the basket breaks then your out of eggs. The funny thing you said about the greedy CEO and Shareholders, do you not realize the shareholders in most of these companies were the ones who lost their pensions. Now they did not complain when the numbers were stacked funny and they were making a good return on their investment did they? The simple truth is when you stop making excuses and stop relying on others and start relying on yourself then there is no one to blame when you fall short but yourself. It is easy to sit with no insurance, a low paying job/welfare and say you deserve what I have worked hard to achieve, but the truth is Darwin was right.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Once again I ask the question when did healthcare become a right? Ok Spazmo you say I live in a fantasy world, Hmm where I come from hard work and education grants you certain benefits. I believe in a merit based system you work you get, you work harder you get more. You select a field that people are willing to pay you for your education or skill set then you get paid for them. You choose to drop out of high school or not to persue a higher education then you don't get equal or better pay. Simple. Along with you keep your cloths on and choose not to have a family until your financialy stable to have one and that means a nest egg and the ability to overcome most hardships that may come your way. Most people make the decisions that land them in the hot water they are in.

Not everyone is as brilliant and capable as you. I suppose you'd just leave the rest to suffer and die, that's just how you are.

What about those people who have reached their zenith in life with a min wage job at McD's? What about people who have an "oops" baby and see their income drop? What about that baby or maybe you'd have people qualify to have a child like they were getting a mortgage and dictate mandatory termination for those who don't qualify. What about those people who are retired and have their pensions taken away through no fault of their own? What about people who get their job sold out from under them by some greedy CEO and shareholders?

09/18/2008 11:27:47 AM · #121

Your tied to nothing all you have to do is set your goals and go for it. I'm not saying you would succeed or fail just it is on your to decide on whether or not to try.

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
My answer would be to take away the free healthcare from the people who have made the choice to live a life of unemployment and supidity and give it to those deserving individuals you speak of.

Your compassion is underwhelming. May I ask how you would separate people who "choose" to live a life of unemployment and stupidity from those who are trying to find jobs, but are unable due to poor qualifications (a student forced to drop out of high school to handle a teen pregnancy), disability, specialized training in a troubled industry (airline mechanic), or living in an economically depressed area (Galveston)? My grandfather was fired from Emerson Electronics three days before he would have retired and collected a pension after 40+ years of work (yes, really). Was that a choice? :-/

My compassion is justified. Work with them on a daily basis like I do and you'll see.

I think you need a new career.

Ahh, but when someone tells you that you should do the same thing for insurance purposes you simply dismiss them don't you?

I remain doing what I do because there are people who need my services. As I said, there are those who didn't choose to be where they are.

Why would I need a new career? Unlike you, I'm quite satisfied with the one I have.

You just sound jaded, burned out and uncaring.

Yeah, you sound like you're a real happy person! "I love my job but the insurance sucks and I think the the taxpayers should keep me up in that area!!"

What I'm burned out on are the abusers of the system. I have not a single problem with those that deserve it and am very satisfied with that aspect. If not, I wouldn't be here.

No, the insurance at my job is just fine. I also like the work I do. What I don't like is surrendering control over my career and life to the people in management, who, frankly, don't give a rip.

I'm tied to a life in a corporation simply because they offer a benefit subsidy. I'd quit tomorrow and work for myself if purchasing private health insurance wasn't ridiculously expensive, assuming that I could even get coverage for my family at all. Note that I'm not talking about sitting on my butt watching Oprah and eating bon-bons all day. I simply want to be able to take my kids to the doctor and not have to sell my house to do so. Private insurance would cost me approximately 2x my mortgage payment.

09/18/2008 11:37:45 AM · #122

Who said anything about Enron or Worldcom? In any case, while company stock may have been the largest segment of some employees' portfolios, regular employees (people who are not corporate officers/executives), as a whole, were NOT the biggest shareholders in either case, nor did they have control over the company. I'm talking about corporations shortchanging their employees to pay a bigger dividend to their shareholders. "Hey, even though we had a banner year, we're going to downplay that and give salary increases below the inflation rate so we can pay the shareholders and ourselves a record dividend."

You'd really tell a married couple, that happens to be poor, to abstain rather than use birth control?

Originally posted by coronamv:

In most cases yes.. But now you have brought up a good point. Why should someone not as capable have the same benefits as one who is? Birthcontrol is not 100 percent your right about that but that is just one way of prevention what about abstance from any sexual activity that would put you in a situation that could cause you harm or hardship? I'm not sure if you heard but most of the people affected by such companies as worldcom and enron weree the employees that had their retirement sunk almost completely in the companies stock.. Spazmo can you keep it on topic and quit with the insults.

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Really? You think that people are only limited by how hard they try and not their innate capacity that no one is more intelligent than another? And that birth control is 100% effective? And to say that a company's shareholders are comprised mainly of their employees is, in most cases, laughable.

At least you admit that you lack compassion for your fellow human beings and really are as disgusting as you portray yourself.

Originally posted by coronamv:
No you can do whatever you want just do it on your dime and not mine. See and you keep saying I have no compassion. You are Right. I do not care for those who are not in my care. What they do is their business until it infringes on me. IE WELFARE! There is no such thing as an OOPS baby. OOPS means you did not take to proper precautions. IE Birth control or Abstance. Again not my issue if you cannot control your urges. What if people reach their Zenith in life at a minimum wage job at McDonald's, then you get back what effort you put into life. That is reality. The great crime you speak of with the pensions being stoled away is true. I cannot disagree that those people who comitted the acts should be punished. On the same note if you put all your eggs in one basket and the basket breaks then your out of eggs. The funny thing you said about the greedy CEO and Shareholders, do you not realize the shareholders in most of these companies were the ones who lost their pensions. Now they did not complain when the numbers were stacked funny and they were making a good return on their investment did they? The simple truth is when you stop making excuses and stop relying on others and start relying on yourself then there is no one to blame when you fall short but yourself. It is easy to sit with no insurance, a low paying job/welfare and say you deserve what I have worked hard to achieve, but the truth is Darwin was right.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by coronamv:
Once again I ask the question when did healthcare become a right? Ok Spazmo you say I live in a fantasy world, Hmm where I come from hard work and education grants you certain benefits. I believe in a merit based system you work you get, you work harder you get more. You select a field that people are willing to pay you for your education or skill set then you get paid for them. You choose to drop out of high school or not to persue a higher education then you don't get equal or better pay. Simple. Along with you keep your cloths on and choose not to have a family until your financialy stable to have one and that means a nest egg and the ability to overcome most hardships that may come your way. Most people make the decisions that land them in the hot water they are in.

Not everyone is as brilliant and capable as you. I suppose you'd just leave the rest to suffer and die, that's just how you are.

What about those people who have reached their zenith in life with a min wage job at McD's? What about people who have an "oops" baby and see their income drop? What about that baby or maybe you'd have people qualify to have a child like they were getting a mortgage and dictate mandatory termination for those who don't qualify. What about those people who are retired and have their pensions taken away through no fault of their own? What about people who get their job sold out from under them by some greedy CEO and shareholders?

09/18/2008 11:47:08 AM · #123

If I were to walk out the door today, I would have to price myself out of the market, simply to afford health care for myself and my kids. The numbers don't lie. It's not about simply setting goals and going for it. I can set a goal to be a star in the NBA, but since I'm 40, hardly in prime shape and only 5'7", it's just not gonna happen. Access to affordable health coverage is the only reason I'm not self employed.

Originally posted by coronamv:

Your tied to nothing all you have to do is set your goals and go for it. I'm not saying you would succeed or fail just it is on your to decide on whether or not to try.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Originally posted by Phil:

Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Phil:
My answer would be to take away the free healthcare from the people who have made the choice to live a life of unemployment and supidity and give it to those deserving individuals you speak of.

Your compassion is underwhelming. May I ask how you would separate people who "choose" to live a life of unemployment and stupidity from those who are trying to find jobs, but are unable due to poor qualifications (a student forced to drop out of high school to handle a teen pregnancy), disability, specialized training in a troubled industry (airline mechanic), or living in an economically depressed area (Galveston)? My grandfather was fired from Emerson Electronics three days before he would have retired and collected a pension after 40+ years of work (yes, really). Was that a choice? :-/

My compassion is justified. Work with them on a daily basis like I do and you'll see.

I think you need a new career.

Ahh, but when someone tells you that you should do the same thing for insurance purposes you simply dismiss them don't you?

I remain doing what I do because there are people who need my services. As I said, there are those who didn't choose to be where they are.

Why would I need a new career? Unlike you, I'm quite satisfied with the one I have.

You just sound jaded, burned out and uncaring.

Yeah, you sound like you're a real happy person! "I love my job but the insurance sucks and I think the the taxpayers should keep me up in that area!!"

What I'm burned out on are the abusers of the system. I have not a single problem with those that deserve it and am very satisfied with that aspect. If not, I wouldn't be here.

No, the insurance at my job is just fine. I also like the work I do. What I don't like is surrendering control over my career and life to the people in management, who, frankly, don't give a rip.

I'm tied to a life in a corporation simply because they offer a benefit subsidy. I'd quit tomorrow and work for myself if purchasing private health insurance wasn't ridiculously expensive, assuming that I could even get coverage for my family at all. Note that I'm not talking about sitting on my butt watching Oprah and eating bon-bons all day. I simply want to be able to take my kids to the doctor and not have to sell my house to do so. Private insurance would cost me approximately 2x my mortgage payment.