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09/16/2008 07:12:52 PM · #51 |
I thought McCains Health Plan would be akin to "killing people with kindness" and bombing the shot out of everyone else. You know...macho stuff...Giuliani stuff.
Whereas Obama has an extensive Five Year Plan to charm us into good health and well being. |
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09/17/2008 12:04:47 AM · #52 |
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09/17/2008 01:14:20 AM · #53 |
One more note on health care ... McCain says you don't want "some bureaucrat" making your health care decisions ... now I'd rather trust some government bureaucrat (who works for the voters) making those decisions than the way we have it now, where an insurance sompany bureaucrat (who works for the shareholders) is making them.
Private for-profit health care (in the USA) spends over 30% on "administrative overhead" -- public insurance (MediCare) spends 5-10% ...
The California State Insurance Commissioner just had to "discipline" companies who'd collect premiums for years, and then cut people off (retroactively) when they made a claim based on minor errors in their application.
Health care for profit requires the delivery of the least services as possible. |
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09/17/2008 10:06:55 AM · #54 |
Pidgeee-Which plan do you think makes more sense as someone studying to be in the field and is now under a State health plan? |
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09/17/2008 10:47:22 AM · #55 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
One more note on health care ... McCain says you don't want "some bureaucrat" making your health care decisions ... now I'd rather trust some government bureaucrat (who works for the voters) making those decisions than the way we have it now, where an insurance sompany bureaucrat (who works for the shareholders) is making them.
Private for-profit health care (in the USA) spends over 30% on "administrative overhead" -- public insurance (MediCare) spends 5-10% ...
The California State Insurance Commissioner just had to "discipline" companies who'd collect premiums for years, and then cut people off (retroactively) when they made a claim based on minor errors in their application.
Health care for profit requires the delivery of the least services as possible. |
Hmmm, I'd rather have "some bureaucrat" who has incentive to make sure my family gets care making my health care decisions than some insurance goon whose incentives are based on shareholder profits and making sure the CEO gets his bonus. Or, even worse, not having care available at all based on personal economics. |
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09/17/2008 12:23:50 PM · #56 |
One more note: members of Congress and the Executive and Judicial branch receive government-run (and paid-for) health care -- why shouldn't that work for the rest of us?
Message edited by author 2008-09-17 12:24:03. |
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09/17/2008 12:40:06 PM · #57 |
| They don't pay into social security either..... |
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09/17/2008 12:46:37 PM · #58 |
| General are you trying to say that the Federal government is self insuring their employees? If so that is not the case. The Federal government offers a benefit to around 4 million employees in its service and that number is shrinking. That benefit depends on what the employee chooses to sign up and pay for. Some federal employees estimate around 100,000 do not take advantage of any benefits in healthcare that are offered. Again to add all residents to this system it would just simply fail due to it would have to be heavily subsidized in the beginning and eventually bankrupt its self |
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09/17/2008 12:53:52 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
One more note: members of Congress and the Executive and Judicial branch receive government-run (and paid-for) health care -- why shouldn't that work for the rest of us? |
This falsity was already debunked in another thread.
Members of Congress, as well as Supreme Court Justices, can opt to buy insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan - the same plan available to ALL federal civilian employees. They pay 28% of the cost of which of several plans they choose, and each of those plans require co-pays, deductibles, etc. |
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09/17/2008 12:56:18 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
They don't pay into social security either..... |
Sorry. But this is also not true. See SNOPES |
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09/17/2008 01:00:18 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
One more note: members of Congress and the Executive and Judicial branch receive government-run (and paid-for) health care -- why shouldn't that work for the rest of us? |
This falsity was already debunked in another thread.
Members of Congress, as well as Supreme Court Justices, can opt to buy insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan - the same plan available to ALL federal civilian employees. They pay 28% of the cost of which of several plans they choose, and each of those plans require co-pays, deductibles, etc. |
That's a whole lot better than what's available to the public. |
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09/17/2008 01:16:21 PM · #62 |
| Well I'm part of the general public.. I have health care and pay out only my co-pay $20 Each doctors visit. BCBS of Alabama 100 % coverage. Company I work for pays the rest. My Father works for the DOD for the last 35 years and he pays a montly premium for BCBS of Alabama and has a deductable. So I actully would not want his coverage. All Federal employees pay in to Social Security. |
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09/17/2008 01:20:37 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
One more note: members of Congress and the Executive and Judicial branch receive government-run (and paid-for) health care -- why shouldn't that work for the rest of us? |
This falsity was already debunked in another thread.
Members of Congress, as well as Supreme Court Justices, can opt to buy insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan - the same plan available to ALL federal civilian employees. They pay 28% of the cost of which of several plans they choose, and each of those plans require co-pays, deductibles, etc. |
That's a whole lot better than what's available to the public. |
If you think that's the case then you don't deal with the public I do. |
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09/17/2008 01:32:13 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well I'm part of the general public.. I have health care and pay out only my co-pay $20 Each doctors visit. BCBS of Alabama 100 % coverage. Company I work for pays the rest. My Father works for the DOD for the last 35 years and he pays a montly premium for BCBS of Alabama and has a deductable. So I actully would not want his coverage. All Federal employees pay in to Social Security. |
No, I'm talking about the people you could care less about; those who don't have access to employer subsidized plans, either because their employer doesn't offer them or they are self employed, etc.. |
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09/17/2008 01:37:03 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
One more note: members of Congress and the Executive and Judicial branch receive government-run (and paid-for) health care -- why shouldn't that work for the rest of us? |
This falsity was already debunked in another thread.
Members of Congress, as well as Supreme Court Justices, can opt to buy insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan - the same plan available to ALL federal civilian employees. They pay 28% of the cost of which of several plans they choose, and each of those plans require co-pays, deductibles, etc. |
That's a whole lot better than what's available to the public. |
According to the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF) and the Health Research and Educational Trust (HRET) ( note: PDF file ), in 2007, employees paid an average of 27.1% of the total cost of all health care plans.
Looks like Congress ( and other Federal Employees ) pay more, if they opt to carry coverage.
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09/17/2008 01:37:25 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by Phil:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
One more note: members of Congress and the Executive and Judicial branch receive government-run (and paid-for) health care -- why shouldn't that work for the rest of us? |
This falsity was already debunked in another thread.
Members of Congress, as well as Supreme Court Justices, can opt to buy insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan - the same plan available to ALL federal civilian employees. They pay 28% of the cost of which of several plans they choose, and each of those plans require co-pays, deductibles, etc. |
That's a whole lot better than what's available to the public. |
If you think that's the case then you don't deal with the public I do. |
Hmmmm. The least expensive coverage I could find for my family when I needed it had $1000/mo premiums. That's for a high deductible policy too.
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09/17/2008 01:42:38 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well I'm part of the general public.. I have health care and pay out only my co-pay $20 Each doctors visit. BCBS of Alabama 100 % coverage. Company I work for pays the rest. My Father works for the DOD for the last 35 years and he pays a montly premium for BCBS of Alabama and has a deductable. So I actully would not want his coverage. All Federal employees pay in to Social Security. |
No, I'm talking about the people you could care less about; those who don't have access to employer subsidized plans, either because their employer doesn't offer them or they are self employed, etc.. |
But if a Congressman was unemployed, he wouldn't have an employer subsidized plan, either. |
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09/17/2008 02:01:06 PM · #68 |
Non-partisan:
FactCheck.org
PolitiFact.com
OpenSecrets.org
FollowTheMoney.org
VoteSmart.org (voter self-defense manual)
Vote411.org (league of women voters)
glassbooth.org (one of many site to compare your views to those of the candidates)
fivethirtyeight.com (predictions)
Partisan:
Tom Tomorrow!
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09/17/2008 02:02:29 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
One more note: members of Congress and the Executive and Judicial branch receive government-run (and paid-for) health care -- why shouldn't that work for the rest of us? |
This falsity was already debunked in another thread.
Members of Congress, as well as Supreme Court Justices, can opt to buy insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan - the same plan available to ALL federal civilian employees. They pay 28% of the cost of which of several plans they choose, and each of those plans require co-pays, deductibles, etc. |
That's a whole lot better than what's available to the public. |
According to the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF) and the Health Research and Educational Trust (HRET) ( note: PDF file ), in 2007, employees paid an average of 27.1% of the total cost of all health care plans.
Looks like Congress ( and other Federal Employees ) pay more, if they opt to carry coverage. |
Hello! Wake up! That average only includes people who are getting insurance through their employer. |
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09/17/2008 02:24:24 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Hello! Wake up! That average only includes people who are getting insurance through their employer. |
The average American pays 56% according to the World Health Organization. If you push people further from [employer or government] subsidized plans to private insurance, that already-high average will go higher. |
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09/17/2008 02:32:20 PM · #71 |
Well you are the one that said the public. So I'm not part of the public anymore? And once again you seem not able to have a conversation with anyone without starting the spitting in the face. Why not say what you mean like instead of "the people you don't care about" State the people who are not willing to pay for it theirselves" And before you attack me on that it is my opinion that they are not willing and yours maybe that they are unable. I had job that had bad healthcare "benefits" IE "benefit" not required... I found a better job with better benefits.. Self employeed means your the boss so you did not provide it for your company. Thus who is at fault. Well you could say they did not make enough self employeed to afford insurance. That tells me that either they have failed and wil go out of business "free market Economics" or they have spent the money in a way they choose to other than healthcare.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well I'm part of the general public.. I have health care and pay out only my co-pay $20 Each doctors visit. BCBS of Alabama 100 % coverage. Company I work for pays the rest. My Father works for the DOD for the last 35 years and he pays a montly premium for BCBS of Alabama and has a deductable. So I actully would not want his coverage. All Federal employees pay in to Social Security. |
No, I'm talking about the people you could care less about; those who don't have access to employer subsidized plans, either because their employer doesn't offer them or they are self employed, etc.. |
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09/17/2008 02:34:10 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Hello! Wake up! That average only includes people who are getting insurance through their employer. |
The average American pays 56% according to the World Health Organization. If you push people further from [employer or government] subsidized plans to private insurance, that already-high average will go higher. |
As usual, you have twisted a figure representing one thing to imply that it represents something else.
The 56% that the average American pays, is a percentage of EXPENSES that they pay out of their own pocket ( after insurance coverages, if any ), and has absolutely NOTHING to do with what they pay for health insurance. |
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09/17/2008 02:36:30 PM · #73 |
Well we are talking about Federal employees and we are talking about insurance currently provided by employers and the comparison.
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
One more note: members of Congress and the Executive and Judicial branch receive government-run (and paid-for) health care -- why shouldn't that work for the rest of us? |
This falsity was already debunked in another thread.
Members of Congress, as well as Supreme Court Justices, can opt to buy insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Plan - the same plan available to ALL federal civilian employees. They pay 28% of the cost of which of several plans they choose, and each of those plans require co-pays, deductibles, etc. |
That's a whole lot better than what's available to the public. |
According to the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF) and the Health Research and Educational Trust (HRET) ( note: PDF file ), in 2007, employees paid an average of 27.1% of the total cost of all health care plans.
Looks like Congress ( and other Federal Employees ) pay more, if they opt to carry coverage. |
Hello! Wake up! That average only includes people who are getting insurance through their employer. |
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09/17/2008 02:41:10 PM · #74 |
| How about this we lower tha cost of healthcare by doing away with all the frivilous laws suit aimed at the healthcare industry. We hold drug companies and Doctors criminally liable for a mistake they make that is due to negligence. We take away doctors license to practice if they fail based on negligence. And deregulate the FDA and let us by drugs from abroad but at our own risk. |
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09/17/2008 02:51:11 PM · #75 |
They are the people you could care less about. You've shown that over and over and over again. Rather than putting lipstick on a pig and calling it Shirley, I'm just calling it a pig.
You seem to live in some kind of fantasy world where everyone is capable of finding a job with excellent benefits and one in which small businesses can afford to operate AND offer healthcare while remaining solvent. It's pointless to debate with somene so deluded, somone who has been coddled by their employer for their whole life.
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well you are the one that said the public. So I'm not part of the public anymore? And once again you seem not able to have a conversation with anyone without starting the spitting in the face. Why not say what you mean like instead of "the people you don't care about" State the people who are not willing to pay for it theirselves" And before you attack me on that it is my opinion that they are not willing and yours maybe that they are unable. I had job that had bad healthcare "benefits" IE "benefit" not required... I found a better job with better benefits.. Self employeed means your the boss so you did not provide it for your company. Thus who is at fault. Well you could say they did not make enough self employeed to afford insurance. That tells me that either they have failed and wil go out of business "free market Economics" or they have spent the money in a way they choose to other than healthcare.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by coronamv:
Well I'm part of the general public.. I have health care and pay out only my co-pay $20 Each doctors visit. BCBS of Alabama 100 % coverage. Company I work for pays the rest. My Father works for the DOD for the last 35 years and he pays a montly premium for BCBS of Alabama and has a deductable. So I actully would not want his coverage. All Federal employees pay in to Social Security. |
No, I'm talking about the people you could care less about; those who don't have access to employer subsidized plans, either because their employer doesn't offer them or they are self employed, etc.. |
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