| Author | Thread |
|
|
09/18/2008 11:27:52 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
In BC, voters are a bit more fickle as they can flip flop around the parties from one election to the next. There have been times though (late 70s early 80s - if my memory is correct) when one party managed to hold on for more than one term. |
The Social Credit won every election 1953-1986 except 1972. The NDP took the next two then were soundly trounced by the Liberals in 2001, 77 seats to 2.
eta; source
Message edited by author 2008-09-18 23:28:53. |
|
|
|
09/18/2008 11:45:37 PM · #127 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
In BC, voters are a bit more fickle as they can flip flop around the parties from one election to the next. There have been times though (late 70s early 80s - if my memory is correct) when one party managed to hold on for more than one term. |
The Social Credit won every election 1953-1986 except 1972. The NDP took the next two then were soundly trounced by the Liberals in 2001, 77 seats to 2.
eta; source |
.. SC with Wacky Bennett (longest), then NDP, now Liberal, who's next?
I wasn't eligible to vote until 1980 so don't remember much before that. I only remember SC getting voted out during Expo 86 then flip flopping between parties since then.
Message edited by author 2008-09-18 23:47:31.
|
|
|
|
09/19/2008 12:16:32 AM · #128 |
| I saw Dion on The Agenda and The Hour tonight. I'm voting Liberal. |
|
|
|
09/21/2008 08:50:49 PM · #129 |
The veils are beginning to crumble:
Tory Candidate Resigns |
|
|
|
09/21/2008 09:17:01 PM · #130 |
Two NDP candidates resigned this week already.
And good riddance to the Tory candidate.
How many other candidates in all parties are hiding their true nature?
When is Dion going to tell us how he's going to pay for his spending spree? Same question about Jack Layton.
Message edited by author 2008-09-21 21:20:05.
|
|
|
|
09/21/2008 09:32:02 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Two NDP candidates resigned this week already.
And good riddance to the Tory candidate.
How many other candidates in all parties are hiding their true nature?
When is Dion going to tell us how he's going to pay for his spending spree? Same question about Jack Layton. |
The problem with the Tory candidate is that he doesn't represent an anomaly like the NDP candidates, he represents what the conservatives really want. Hell, the candidate in our riding is pretty much spouting off what this candidate did *IN THE OPEN* and people here (blue-collar, homophobic, scared of their own shadow small town B.C.), lap it up like the little sheep they are.
To be frank, I'm tired of people in this country electing people simply because they represent financial cheapness, especially when it can't be backed up. Harper is pledging just as many things that will cost money as anyone else. |
|
|
|
09/21/2008 09:37:26 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by K10DGuy:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Two NDP candidates resigned this week already.
And good riddance to the Tory candidate.
How many other candidates in all parties are hiding their true nature?
When is Dion going to tell us how he's going to pay for his spending spree? Same question about Jack Layton. |
The problem with the Tory candidate is that he doesn't represent an anomaly like the NDP candidates, he represents what the conservatives really want. Hell, the candidate in our riding is pretty much spouting off what this candidate did *IN THE OPEN* and people here (blue-collar, homophobic, scared of their own shadow small town B.C.), lap it up like the little sheep they are.
To be frank, I'm tired of people in this country electing people simply because they represent financial cheapness, especially when it can't be backed up. Harper is pledging just as many things that will cost money as anyone else. |
When I hear how Dion is planning to pay for things which I think he's indicated next week he'll say how I won't be surprised if he pulls a McGinty and decides to do things that will send us back into debt. Layton already has a plan for that part.
ETA: I'm sure you know all the candidates so you can be sure that they don't have any hidden skeletons. At least the Tory in your riding is open. If you think the whole party is like that then the NDP are a bunch of druggies.
ETA2: Also, spending can be though of in two ways, one which is pure spending and one which is a cost that stimulates the economy which is good. Dion's and Layton's spending spree is in the former category.
Message edited by author 2008-09-21 22:04:15.
|
|
|
|
09/21/2008 10:05:31 PM · #133 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
ETA: I'm sure you know all the candidates so you can be sure that they don't have any hidden skeletons. At least the Tory in your riding is open. If you think the whole party is like that then the NDP are a bunch of druggies. |
I think it's either dishonest or naive not to claim not to know what kinds of views on social issues many Conservative members have. (They are NOT Tories. The party of the Tories is dead.) |
|
|
|
09/21/2008 10:08:26 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
ETA: I'm sure you know all the candidates so you can be sure that they don't have any hidden skeletons. At least the Tory in your riding is open. If you think the whole party is like that then the NDP are a bunch of druggies. |
I think it's either dishonest or naive not to claim not to know what kinds of views on social issues many Conservative members have. (They are NOT Tories. The party of the Tories is dead.) |
Excuse me for repeating the title that K10 provided.
I'm sure all the parties poll their member to see what their views are. Ya right. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
Message edited by author 2008-09-21 22:09:55.
|
|
|
|
09/22/2008 01:03:39 PM · #135 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
ETA: I'm sure you know all the candidates so you can be sure that they don't have any hidden skeletons. At least the Tory in your riding is open. If you think the whole party is like that then the NDP are a bunch of druggies. |
I think it's either dishonest or naive not to claim not to know what kinds of views on social issues many Conservative members have. (They are NOT Tories. The party of the Tories is dead.) |
Excuse me for repeating the title that K10 provided.
I'm sure all the parties poll their member to see what their views are. Ya right. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. |
I didn't say that. What I said was that representative members of the Conservative party have predictable views on social issues. I also suggested that it would be disingenuous of anyone to claim not to know what kinds of views those represent; for example, that Conservative members are predictably anti gay marriage, anti-abortion, pro capital punishment, against banning handguns, and, perhaps most cynical of all, "tough on crime" (look at Harper's shameful announcement about youth crime today: punish fourteen year olds as adults and send them to jail, don't rehabilitate them).
There is nothing "ya right" about any of that. You're obviously a Conservative supporter. Do your personal views on these social issues even slightly resemble the known views of these members, put out there as party policy by backbenchers in odious community mailouts?
The trouble with this, and with our political process in general, is that the majority of Canadians are not represented by these views, or by the Right at all. Even if 40% of voters side with Conservatives, that leaves a 60% majority who are left of centre. More than half of those are well left of centre. We don't have representative government in this country.
I've said in these forums before that, should the left unite in this country, the right is permanently done for. Guess what could be happening? And here. |
|
|
|
09/22/2008 01:09:13 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
ETA: I'm sure you know all the candidates so you can be sure that they don't have any hidden skeletons. At least the Tory in your riding is open. If you think the whole party is like that then the NDP are a bunch of druggies. |
I think it's either dishonest or naive not to claim not to know what kinds of views on social issues many Conservative members have. (They are NOT Tories. The party of the Tories is dead.) |
Excuse me for repeating the title that K10 provided.
I'm sure all the parties poll their member to see what their views are. Ya right. If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. |
I didn't say that. What I said was that representative members of the Conservative party have predictable views on social issues. I also suggested that it would be disingenuous of anyone to claim not to know what kinds of views those represent; for example, that Conservative members are predictably anti gay marriage, anti-abortion, pro capital punishment, against banning handguns, and, perhaps most cynical of all, "tough on crime" (look at Harper's shameful announcement about youth crime today: punish fourteen year olds as adults and send them to jail, don't rehabilitate them).
There is nothing "ya right" about any of that. You're obviously a Conservative supporter. Do your personal views on these social issues even slightly resemble the known views of these members, put out there as party policy by backbenchers in odious community mailouts?
The trouble with this, and with our political process in general, is that the majority of Canadians are not represented by these views, or by the Right at all. Even if 40% of voters side with Conservatives, that leaves a 60% majority who are left of centre. More than half of those are well left of centre. We don't have representative government in this country.
I've said in these forums before that, should the left unite in this country, the right is permanently done for. Guess what could be happening? And here. |
No I don't align with all the beliefs of the Conservative party. Does anyone align 100%?
Anyway, I'd prefer less government rather than more. People need to take some responsibility for the choices they've made for themselves and not rely on the government to take care of them.
So far all I've seen from the political left is tax and spend. Nothing that actually creates a positive environment for a healthy economic balance.
|
|
|
|
09/22/2008 02:26:32 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
No I don't align with all the beliefs of the Conservative party. Does anyone align 100%?
Anyway, I'd prefer less government rather than more. People need to take some responsibility for the choices they've made for themselves and not rely on the government to take care of them.
So far all I've seen from the political left is tax and spend. Nothing that actually creates a positive environment for a healthy economic balance. |
Look, there is common ground everywhere, and I hate to seem so negative, but "tax and spend" is just one of those catch phrases that makes for a good sound bite. It's stuff you expect to hear from politicians during the campaign, and informed voters should be wary of such language. And of course I don't agree that the parties of the left simply want to spend your hard earned money in ways you abhor. If we're going to talk like that, then I must say I'm pretty miffed that the Conservatives plan to spend $19B of my money on the military, and however many millions to get "tough on crime" in ways that I find abhorrent and shameful. Anyway, read the Liberal platform and the plans for a balanced budget. Conservatives were making the same alarmist noises before the three majority governments the Liberals had that resulted in those historic surpluses that helped to put us in the positive economic frame we're in that's currently insulating us -- somewhat -- from the meltdown down south.
Yes, don't rely on the government to take care of you. Therefore, let the government keep their noses out of the country's bedrooms, off our right to wed whom we please, off women's bodies, and off our Charter. |
|
|
|
09/22/2008 02:55:00 PM · #138 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
No I don't align with all the beliefs of the Conservative party. Does anyone align 100%?
Anyway, I'd prefer less government rather than more. People need to take some responsibility for the choices they've made for themselves and not rely on the government to take care of them.
So far all I've seen from the political left is tax and spend. Nothing that actually creates a positive environment for a healthy economic balance. |
Look, there is common ground everywhere, and I hate to seem so negative, but "tax and spend" is just one of those catch phrases that makes for a good sound bite. It's stuff you expect to hear from politicians during the campaign, and informed voters should be wary of such language. And of course I don't agree that the parties of the left simply want to spend your hard earned money in ways you abhor. If we're going to talk like that, then I must say I'm pretty miffed that the Conservatives plan to spend $19B of my money on the military, and however many millions to get "tough on crime" in ways that I find abhorrent and shameful. Anyway, read the Liberal platform and the plans for a balanced budget. Conservatives were making the same alarmist noises before the three majority governments the Liberals had that resulted in those historic surpluses that helped to put us in the positive economic frame we're in that's currently insulating us -- somewhat -- from the meltdown down south.
Yes, don't rely on the government to take care of you. Therefore, let the government keep their noses out of the country's bedrooms, off our right to wed whom we please, off women's bodies, and off our Charter. |
Like I said there needs to be balance. The far right (Libertarian view) has no place as the far left (NDP) has no place other than bringing balance to the other extreme. An NDP government would certainly destroy the economy, however as the balance of power in opposition would keep the far right from stripping everything.
You say you don't want any spending on the military yet you also have said you want a military. You can't have it both ways. Either you spend to keep up to date or you let them fall into disrepair and unable to participate in any kind of campaign, even peace keeping.
|
|
|
|
09/22/2008 03:04:33 PM · #139 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
You say you don't want any spending on the military yet you also have said you want a military. You can't have it both ways. Either you spend to keep up to date or you let them fall into disrepair and unable to participate in any kind of campaign, even peace keeping. |
I don't think I characterized my position as quite that black and white. Living in a large Western democracy, yes, there needs to be a military budget. But does the Canadian military budget for 2009 need to outstrip all military spending for the past twenty years? I don't know. The usual response is, "Well, do you want the American military to also be the Canadian military in times of crisis, should the military fall into disrepair," etc. But again, to my poorly tuned ear, those are pat answers more properly delivered by electioneering backbenchers. Voters need more information, not sound bites. For example, why is the budget so huge, and why is four billion dollars of that military budget to be spent by the Conservatives on protecting Arctic sovereignty, when the equipment that was purchased is useless in the Arctic? Those are the kinds of questions that it would be useful to have addressed by the leaders, in order to help me understand why we have to have a gargantuan military -- gargantuan, that is, by historic Canadian standards. |
|
|
|
10/01/2008 08:38:44 AM · #140 |
| I received my voting card and immediately tossed it. It was an instinctive reaction and we all know we must trust our instincts. Have fun voting for your favourite colour because that's the only difference from one party to another. Greens have become just another Canadian political party. Totally disappointed with our political landscape, to the point where I have thrown in the towel. |
|
|
|
10/01/2008 12:26:50 PM · #141 |
That's too bad. With the stink of the Conservatives fairly overwhelming me, I can't wait to vote. Consider the cynical duplicitous assholery that is Stephen Harper, who on one day announces millions of dollars in cuts to arts programs because apparently artists are nothing but "whiners" living off the government's teat and concerned with nothing more than going to "galas", and a few days later, feeling the political heat, announces millions of dollars in arts funding for educational programs for children in the arts because one day, in his words, they might make a career out of being an artist. If that is not the basest form of political electioneering, if that does not show up the Cs to be the worst kind of hypocritical political hacks, then this country and all who live in't are certainly doomed to live with the pasty-faced leaders they elect. Ugh.
Message edited by author 2008-10-01 12:27:44. |
|
|
|
10/01/2008 02:42:22 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by Louis:
That's too bad. With the stink of the Conservatives fairly overwhelming me, I can't wait to vote. Consider the cynical duplicitous assholery that is Stephen Harper, who on one day announces millions of dollars in cuts to arts programs because apparently artists are nothing but "whiners" living off the government's teat and concerned with nothing more than going to "galas", and a few days later, feeling the political heat, announces millions of dollars in arts funding for educational programs for children in the arts because one day, in his words, they might make a career out of being an artist. If that is not the basest form of political electioneering, if that does not show up the Cs to be the worst kind of hypocritical political hacks, then this country and all who live in't are certainly doomed to live with the pasty-faced leaders they elect. Ugh. |
I read about that, and my first thought was, "Yah, but I bet he'll try and cattle-herd the funding into arts that *he* wants so that they can raise a new generation of the kind of artists they want.".
Completely not based on any fact whatsoever, but that was my first thought. lol. |
|
|
|
10/01/2008 03:31:12 PM · #143 |
Originally posted by Louis:
... assholery ... |
WHoa! You know Louis is PISSED-OFF when he drops an "assholery" bomb!
|
|
|
|
10/14/2008 07:07:39 PM · #144 |
| Polls close in Ontario at 9:30pm. I predict another Harper minority, but stronger than last time. (Alex predicts a weaker Harper minority, and he's a newshound.) |
|
|
|
10/14/2008 07:40:55 PM · #145 |
Could be worse, you could live in the US...talk about assholery...
Message edited by author 2008-10-14 19:41:24. |
|
|
|
10/14/2008 08:44:43 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Polls close in Ontario at 9:30pm. I predict another Harper minority, but stronger than last time. (Alex predicts a weaker Harper minority, and he's a newshound.) |
I'm with Alex based on the likelihood of losses in Quebec.
|
|
|
|
10/14/2008 10:48:30 PM · #147 |
*sigh*.
Time to look at converting to Islam and moving to The Maldives. |
|
|
|
10/14/2008 10:51:27 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Polls close in Ontario at 9:30pm. I predict another Harper minority, but stronger than last time. (Alex predicts a weaker Harper minority, and he's a newshound.) |
I told ya so. :-P Now the question is, will the Liberals have a leadership convention. |
|
|
|
10/15/2008 01:07:29 AM · #149 |
Originally posted by Louis:
Originally posted by Louis:
Polls close in Ontario at 9:30pm. I predict another Harper minority, but stronger than last time. (Alex predicts a weaker Harper minority, and he's a newshound.) |
I told ya so. :-P Now the question is, will the Liberals have a leadership convention. |
Leadership review is in March. Question is: Will Dion step down before then?
|
|
|
|
10/15/2008 08:36:05 AM · #150 |
Well my tossed vote wouldn't have changed a thing in this election. Matter of fact, if millions of Canadians had voted for the Greens or the NDP, still nothing would have changed. It'll take a major downswing for any governmental change in this country. Harper is kissing everyone's ass and it's working, except in Quebec. Quebecers must have realized that Nation Status in Canada meant absolutely nothing, Aboriginals have known this for hundreds of years. They were duped into thinking that he was going to give them something they have wanted for years but have realized that Harper was just using them for his own needs. No party has a chance in Quebec anymore. Political parties should plan an election campaign excluding Quebec, it's Bloc territory and that won't change for years to come.
Congrats to the West, you got your mini Bush for another few months until another election is called. What a joke! |
|
