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08/30/2008 11:17:06 AM · #26 |
If this is a learning site, so far all I can say I've learned is that if you wanna score high in the challenges, photograph droplets of water; your photo can be wonderful and technically correct but it will still probably score below the photos of something reflected in a bunch of dew drops. Don't get me wrong, the ones who take those photos do very well, the pics are often very attractive. It just seems that the majority of the winning pics are quite similar in composition and it leaves little chance to the photographers who don't take such photos to earn a ribbon.
Sorry if that sounded a bit like a rant :)
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08/30/2008 11:23:38 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by Jaker:
And I think that's awesome! You've got an artistic style that is your own, and you also smart enough to realize that you got exactly the result you intended, and that it may or may not have mass appeal for whatever reason. |
Funny that.....
I accidently stumbled on a style, technique, process, that seems to resonate well with the voters. It was something that I was screwing around with in PS, and it was something I liked.
It was more of an exercise than anything, but it's accorded me with some decent scores, and it seems to be something that I can do pretty well.
I learned it here, as well as pretty much every single thing that I can do in PS, and it's nice to have something emerge that's something you can develop, especially if it's unexpected.
I pretty much have to call out a giant THANK YOU!!! to a number of DPC people whose patience and helpfulness have helped me to be a much better photographer.
Originally posted by Jaker:
I would love to see a "fine art" challenge. Take your artsiest, none DPC friendly photo. That would be an interesting experiment, because someone would still have to win, and the voters would still be wrong. |
I think that would probably produce some truly interesting work.
Make it a free range editing thing, too!
There's a whole thread for challenge suggestions......8>)
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08/30/2008 11:25:08 AM · #28 |
| I sleep soundly at night with the knowledge that I am one of the world's true unnapreciated geniuses. Also I know that every comment I make is 100% accurate and not only improves the photographer's skills but also benefits humankind. |
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08/30/2008 11:27:02 AM · #29 |
| For me, this is something like an art student having to draw spheres for a year before he is allowed to move on. At DPC I know I have improved my technical skill as a photographer, and I am no longer satisfied with the quality of many of the photos that used to thrill me. That doesn't inhibit my artistic side, it helps me express myself in a more deliberate way. I'm no longer the monkey sitting at the typewriter, but someone who knows the keyboard and the language. Now I am beginning to move to the next level of concentrating on my message. Long way to go yet, and that's what makes it fun. |
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08/30/2008 11:29:05 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by LiamD2005:
I sleep soundly at night with the knowledge that I am one of the world's true unnapreciated geniuses. Also I know that every comment I make is 100% accurate and not only improves the photographer's skills but also benefits humankind. |
Love you for that comment. :D |
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08/30/2008 11:35:00 AM · #31 |
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08/30/2008 11:37:39 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Who the heck is IRENEM ? |
Look on the home page. She has two ribbons this week. |
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08/30/2008 11:38:21 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by David Ey:
Who the heck is IRENEM ? |
Check the front page...any front page! lol |
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08/30/2008 11:42:15 AM · #34 |
Here's a little secret. When i first started lurking around this site, I was AMAZED by the water droplet shots. AMAZED. Fact of the matter is that they still amaze me, because I can't shoot them. I simply don't have the skills or the equipment. And another little secret is that I still WANT someday, to be able to take a friggin amazing water droplet shot. And assuming someday I figure our how to do one really well, I'm gonna post that sucker!!
Of course by then, they will probably have lost their appeal and I'll get voted low! |
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08/30/2008 12:03:18 PM · #35 |
Edited and modified from an earlier post in the B&W Abstract scores thread:
At some risk of sounding like a Sunday school teacher, excessive attention to the average score of an image and the rank order in comparison to other images may lead one to ignore other valuable aspects of dpchallenge. I recognize that each person has individual priorities and perceptions, and that scores are highly important to some people, just part of the experience for others.
For me, as for others, one goal involves learning how to be a better photographer. Entering a challenge can help me get there. The challenges often lure me into trying subjects and approaches I might not have tied otherwise. The multiple types of feedback (vote distributrion, average scores, comments, maybe eventually a ribbon?), each can be valuable, either from prompting thought about what the face value (score or comment) communicates or from thinking about why I disagree with a comment or score. No need to believe all the feedback or to disregard all the feedback.
Another goal is to make positive contributions in a community of people joined by common interests. Contributions can be in the form of sharing images, thoughtful commenting, or posting in forum discussions, to name a few. I don't need scores to know I am not the top photographer visiting the site. But there is a subtle kind of satisfaction that comes from taking part, even when my role sometimes seems to be to help make the really excellent images look better by comparison. Either way, I enjoy the community (including the range of agreement and disagreement), and the comments confirm that (at least some) people enjoy (at least some of) my images. Each of you posting in this thread have made many valuable contributions in multiple ways.
The scores and ribbons are part of the picture. Yet there are only three ribbon winners per challenge (plus the posthumous thread, which helps). I find it good to remember that in every challenge there are also potentially hundreds of participants "winning" insights and reaping the rewards of participating in a community with shared interests.
So, I probably won't let the scoring trends tempt me into getting a puppet to take an overexposed double water droplet picture for the current challenges, but any of you would be welcome to borrow the idea. |
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08/30/2008 12:12:29 PM · #36 |
Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one. Just because we may disagree on an image, it doesn't make one of us wrong. Whether I like it you don't or you like it, I don't. I'll try to give your opinion the same respect I would like for my own, and hope you will do likewise. You may be able to educate my "visual palate" a bit. But I'm not likely to listen very closely, as long as the discussion is about your opinion being right, and mine is just stupid.
Each image is an effort to communicate. With a worldwide membership of many different languages and cultures, it becomes even harder yet. Your intent and your message may be very plain to you, but it may not be so to others. This is especially true of the cutting edge stuff. Lowest common denominator wins here, just because that is what the majority can understand. If your work is really "out there" then perhaps a gallery is where your stuff should be.
Yes there are voting trolls. And every time someone squeals, they are encouraged to continue. I suspect that there are also those who are voting low on some good images, in the hopes of bettering the finish of their own image. The site tries to catch such trends, but can it catch the more clever persons, and even the low votes are taken out of the average, do they remain on the overall display?
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08/30/2008 12:19:25 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Jaker:
If all you want is praise, I'm sure your family and friends will tell you how amazing your work is all day long. Hell, my friends all think I'm Mr. amazing photographer guy, with a wealth of knowledge and expertise. I know the truth. I'm barely an amateur, struggling to learn and keep up.
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Hilarious! This is so true, my family all think I am awesome and try to get me to do "shoots" of them. Very true that if you want praise your family is great! |
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08/30/2008 12:27:40 PM · #38 |
Like everyone else, I am often disappointed by a poor score on something I thought was a killer shot and a sure 6. The major frustration with it, however, is not knowing WHY. I am learning to interpret the scores and comments however. There is much to be found from the details. Have a look at those details on your next mediocre score. For instance:
-Do the comments suggest flaws and how you could improve it, or did you hear just positive comments from those that liked it?
-Do more than one of those comments say the same thing, or do they offer conflicting praise/criticism over the same aspect of your entry?
-What does the score breakdown look like? Did you get a lot of high votes, but also get pulled down by a lot of low ones, or are most of the votes in the 4's and 5's?
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08/30/2008 12:41:38 PM · #39 |
Allrighty all. Thank you for allowing my my rant, against people ranting about stupid voters scoring stupid pictures stupidly low. :-)
I've gotta bow out for awhile and continue cleaning my place, and apparently  Judi's as well. Anybody else need any vacuming done? |
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08/30/2008 12:43:02 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by Jaker:
Allrighty all. Thank you for allowing my my rant, against people ranting about stupid voters scoring stupid pictures stupidly low. :-)
I've gotta bow out for awhile and continue cleaning my place, and apparently Judi's as well. Anybody else need any vacuming done? |
No vacuuming but the floors could use a wash. ;o)
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08/30/2008 12:53:04 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by Jaker:
Anybody else need any vacuming done? |
Do you do Windows? |
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08/30/2008 01:14:55 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by JuliBoc:
For me, this is something like an art student having to draw spheres for a year before he is allowed to move on. At DPC I know I have improved my technical skill as a photographer, and I am no longer satisfied with the quality of many of the photos that used to thrill me. That doesn't inhibit my artistic side, it helps me express myself in a more deliberate way. I'm no longer the monkey sitting at the typewriter, but someone who knows the keyboard and the language. Now I am beginning to move to the next level of concentrating on my message. Long way to go yet, and that's what makes it fun. |
Just ... perfect. And bob350 was pretty much dead on target, too.
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08/30/2008 01:25:49 PM · #43 |
Meh - whatever . . I've always believed that people enter shot's because they genuinely believe them to be good and sometimes even believe them to be ribbon worthy - but guess what - lot's of times they are wrong.
Mass voting will clearly overlook quality images at times - no doubt about it, but I have to say the ones at the top at the end of a challenge normally look pretty good to me, and the ones at the bottom end also tend to belong there.
The one exception to this for me is Free Studies. I think these are the hardest of all challenges and a lot of high quality photo's get lost or overlooked due to the sheer number (and diversity) of the entries.
And as for the remark someone made about American Idol - I think that is an interesting analogy.
While the winners may seem to have come of a production line where they appear to have just been manufactured - they can at least sing. While many of the others that entered (again with the plain belief that they could / should win) are . . how shall we put this delicately ? Not quite the finished article ?
:- )
ps  Jaker Do you cut grass ?
Message edited by author 2008-08-30 13:27:35. |
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08/30/2008 01:44:10 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by Jedusi:
Meh - whatever . . I've always believed that people enter shot's because they genuinely believe them to be good and sometimes even believe them to be ribbon worthy - but guess what - lot's of times they are wrong.
... |
I think the longer the user has been a DPC resident the less that rings true. Speaking for myself , rarely think I have a ribbon entry image, one that I feel very good enough about to have the presumption that it might ribbon. I wouldn't have entered 99% of the Free Studies I have if it was just about placing in the top5. Most of the time I like the image enough and curious how viewers percieve it. I've posted many images that I wasn't particularly proud of and getting a 6.0 is like a treat. |
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08/30/2008 01:49:10 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by Techo:
Most of the time I like the image enough and curious how viewers percieve it. |
Yep. I'd say my most common emotion as voting begins is curiosity. I like the shots I enter, or I wouldn't bother sharing them with the world. I'm just intensely interested in whether anyone else will. And I also accept that I often enter images that are "good enough" for me, taking into account the rest of my life. I don't think I've ever entered a shot expecting it to be anywhere near the top, so it's a pleasant surprise on the rare occasions when I find myself up there.
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08/30/2008 04:03:47 PM · #46 |
Originally posted by Jaker:
I've gotta bow out for awhile and continue cleaning my place, and apparently Judi's as well. Anybody else need any vacuming done? |
You get to vacuum Judi's place???!!! You dog you! Some people have all the luck.
Think she needs her car washed? |
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08/30/2008 04:35:30 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by Techo:
Originally posted by Jedusi:
Meh - whatever . . I've always believed that people enter shot's because they genuinely believe them to be good and sometimes even believe them to be ribbon worthy - but guess what - lot's of times they are wrong.
... |
I think the longer the user has been a DPC resident the less that rings true. Speaking for myself , rarely think I have a ribbon entry image, one that I feel very good enough about to have the presumption that it might ribbon. I wouldn't have entered 99% of the Free Studies I have if it was just about placing in the top5. Most of the time I like the image enough and curious how viewers percieve it. I've posted many images that I wasn't particularly proud of and getting a 6.0 is like a treat. |
my statement was " that people enter shot's because they genuinely believe them to be good and sometimes even believe them to be ribbon worthy" not that everyone only enters for a ribbon or believes they will get one, and I stick by that.
You say you've entered shot's you've not been proud of, and I'm sure it's true - but your stat's would suggest that your scores aren't just a matter of luck - rather they are well composed, created, captured and presented.
: - )
Message edited by author 2008-08-30 16:37:49. |
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08/30/2008 05:17:44 PM · #48 |
| At this point, forget ribbons. I am still competing against myself, and usually losing. |
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08/30/2008 05:30:57 PM · #49 |
I like the original post by jaker, and the thoughtful responses. And the free cleaning. I also like posthumous's challenge. One foot in realism, the other permanently mired in the quixotic, I slouch towards Bethlehem hoping to be born.
The numbers may not change, but the comments do alter the universe. I look at photos for enjoyment and inspiration - imaginative and technical - but I must confess that what I am hoping to learn from my comments and others' is what I like about what I like as well as more of what I like. |
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08/30/2008 06:34:05 PM · #50 |
| Thank you for bringing up the negativity that has been seen in the forums. I am a paying member and am trying to learn. Such negativity is not going to help us improve, it will only lead to more complaining. I mean, isn't this supposed to be fun? I am having fun even when I get a 5.0 (always hoping for a 6.0 :). If you are new to this "hobby" then just try to improve on your old scores and learn from the other amazingly talented people on this site. |
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