| Author | Thread |
|
|
07/16/2008 02:28:23 AM · #151 |
I played army with my cousins as a boy, as I'm sure most boys that age do. It's a part of childhood fantasy, to play a heroic archetype- which I think is very good for boys and girls both. As an adult, I used to play knights with my niece using foam boffer swords (I think little girls should be allowed to have heroic fantasies as much as boys; and she wasn't being rescued, she was 'vanquishing' ME ;) ). If they ban toy guns, they will probably want to ban those boffer swords next. :roll:
I love playing with my nieces and nephews- my nephew loves it when I do my velociraptor impersonation and chase him in his electric car. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 03:54:05 AM · #152 |
Originally posted by junh:
I love playing with my nieces and nephews- my nephew loves it when I do my velociraptor impersonation and chase him in his electric car. |
Which is not yet banned, but don't let the cops see your nephew talking on his toy cell phone while driving it.
|
|
|
|
07/16/2008 05:21:06 AM · #153 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Mick:
I like my Glock 9mm.
|
I like my Glock too. Only mine is a .40 |
Glock is nice but S&W is better:) |
As if. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 10:26:17 AM · #154 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Mick:
I like my Glock 9mm.
|
I like my Glock too. Only mine is a .40 |
Glock is nice but S&W is better:) |
I like Ruger's warranty better. :-)
Too bad Canon doesn't offer the same service.
Message edited by author 2008-07-16 10:26:51. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 10:27:47 AM · #155 |
How many cops have been shot by a little child wielding a toy gun? Zero!
How many cops have been shot by a little child wielding a real gun? Not many. Probably less than one a year.
How many cops have been shot and killed by repeat criminals released by the courts? Hundreds
Can we focus on the real problems. It's not "guns", it's crappy judges who will let a criminal with a 12 page long rap sheet and 13 accounts of criminal possession of a firearm to roam free on the streets of Philly and murder police officers. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 11:05:12 AM · #156 |
I think everyone should have a gun or two. Even little kids. Never mind toy guns just give them the real deal.
Give me all the bullets though. I wouldn't trust you turds with an elastic band and a paperclip!
:)
|
|
|
|
07/16/2008 11:25:57 AM · #157 |
this thread, in combination with some co-workers, have made me want a gun. A guy I work with used to be a gun dealer and he said I should pickup a Glock 9mm. Is this the right choice? How much does this run on average?
I'm not trying to hijack the thread, I don't see anything wrong with toy guns. I had plenty of toy guns. I think there's a point in the kids life where he is allowed to have a toy gun and has ground rules layed down. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 11:59:24 AM · #158 |
Originally posted by totaldis:
this thread, in combination with some co-workers, have made me want a gun. A guy I work with used to be a gun dealer and he said I should pickup a Glock 9mm. Is this the right choice? How much does this run on average?
I'm not trying to hijack the thread, I don't see anything wrong with toy guns. I had plenty of toy guns. I think there's a point in the kids life where he is allowed to have a toy gun and has ground rules layed down. |
Depends what you are looking for in a handgun. Will you be getting a concealed carry permit, b/c you will want something compact and concealable. If the gun is for target shooting and home defense then maybe something larger in body and easier to shoot. Brand names are like the canon and nikon debate, it's mostly preference. Glock, Smith&Wesson, Taurus, Colt, Sigma Arms, Springfield are all good brand names. It's best to go and handle different brands and caliber to see what fits your hand best. If I were buying a semi-auto handgun though, I would go with a 40mm over a 9mm, jmo. If you go with a revolver I would get a 357magnum, you can shoot 38's or 357's out of that gun. It makes target shooting easier and cheaper shooting the 38's and when at home for protection you load it with 357's for more power. Good luck and take a safety class if you haven't before. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 12:08:51 PM · #159 |
Originally posted by totaldis:
this thread, in combination with some co-workers, have made me want a gun. A guy I work with used to be a gun dealer and he said I should pickup a Glock 9mm. Is this the right choice? How much does this run on average? |
My Glock 19 (9mm) cost me about $300 new, but that was way back in 1990. You can expect to pay about $500 for the same pistol at today's prices. I suggest going to a good dealer and trying a few different handguns before buying. You may decide that you like something different. You should also consider getting some formal training. You can learn a lot in a handgun safety course.
Originally posted by totaldis:
I'm not trying to hijack the thread, I don't see anything wrong with toy guns. I had plenty of toy guns. I think there's a point in the kids life where he is allowed to have a toy gun and has ground rules layed down. |
I think it depends on where you live. A kid running around with a toy gun in a high crime neighborhood (ghetto) will no doubt be in much more danger than one in a more peaceful small town neighborhood. There are a lot of young kids carrying real handguns in ghetto areas.
|
|
|
|
07/16/2008 12:10:33 PM · #160 |
Originally posted by totaldis:
A guy I work with used to be a gun dealer and he said I should pickup a Glock 9mm. Is this the right choice? How much does this run on average? |
Hi Aaron,
I'll give you my thoughts, as a recent add to the list of American gun owners. Glocks have a pretty good reputation. I just recently purchased a used Glock 9mm for $300. (Pretty good deal from what I understand.) Typically in my area they tend to go for closer to around $400-$450 used and $550+ new depending on features.
It has functioned flawlessly even though it's close to 20 yrs old. The Glock 9mm comes in a number of varieties each geared to a somewhat different focus. Standard service size, compacts for conceal carry, and larger models for target practice. What is nice about them is that you can use any size Glock 9mm magazine so long as the magazine is longer than the handle (in other words, a short sub-compact mag will not function in a standard size Glock but the standard size will function in the sub-compact). This holds true all the way up to the very high capacity 30+ round magazine.
That said, what is your intent for the firearm? If you're looking for a home defense handgun. I'd probably recommend a revolver such as a S&W or the Ruger GP100 chambered for the .357 Magnum/38 Special. These are accurate, durable, function reliably and tend to be easier to shoot accuractely for most novices. The downside, they tend to be limited to 6 rounds. They are also heavier and less easily to carry concealed.
If you are inclined to go auto-pistol. The Glock is liked by many. Although some dislike it's lack of a safety that is separate from the trigger. Other brands also make some good products for the 9mm. I tend to like Ruger's products as they are usually sturdy, reliable and affordable. But I do not feel their 9mm (SR-9) offering to be one of their best. Especially when compared to their much nicer P-345 model. I like the added safety options in the Ruger P-345: Safety/Decocker, Loaded Chamber Indicator, Internal Lock, Magazine Disconnect just to name a few. I also found it much more comfortable than the comparable Glock in 45 caliber. And this is very important! Everyone's hand is different, try holding (and using if possible) to see what is most comfortable for you.
That said, I'd also consider taking something like the NRA "First Steps" or "Basic Pistol" courses.
Message edited by author 2008-07-16 12:11:55. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 12:14:51 PM · #161 |
| I have plans on getting my concealed weapons license so I probably lean toward the smaller gun. I have a couple ex police officers in the family who are supposed to show me the ropes. I guess what I was asking is if the glock9 would be a good fit for me to travel with. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 12:25:13 PM · #162 |
The two concealed handguns I am looking at are the 9mm Glock and the S&W .40. Both law enforcement endorsed. I just do not like what I have heard about firing multiple shots with a .22 and failing to stop an attacker. A friend linked me to a company that seems to offer a very plain 9mm and .40 for under $200 each. Probably not built for years of daily use but for personal protection probably not a bad deal.
I'd really rather have a Nikkor Micro 60mm though, sighs... I just cannot manage to save up the past couple months, stupid overpriced pizza because of the food shortages causing my day to be ruined grumble grable babble...
|
|
|
|
07/16/2008 12:39:02 PM · #163 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Originally posted by totaldis:
this thread, in combination with some co-workers, have made me want a gun. A guy I work with used to be a gun dealer and he said I should pickup a Glock 9mm. Is this the right choice? How much does this run on average?
I'm not trying to hijack the thread, I don't see anything wrong with toy guns. I had plenty of toy guns. I think there's a point in the kids life where he is allowed to have a toy gun and has ground rules layed down. |
Depends what you are looking for in a handgun. Will you be getting a concealed carry permit, b/c you will want something compact and concealable. If the gun is for target shooting and home defense then maybe something larger in body and easier to shoot. Brand names are like the canon and nikon debate, it's mostly preference. Glock, Smith&Wesson, Taurus, Colt, Sigma Arms, Springfield are all good brand names. It's best to go and handle different brands and caliber to see what fits your hand best. If I were buying a semi-auto handgun though, I would go with a 40mm over a 9mm, jmo. If you go with a revolver I would get a 357magnum, you can shoot 38's or 357's out of that gun. It makes target shooting easier and cheaper shooting the 38's and when at home for protection you load it with 357's for more power. Good luck and take a safety class if you haven't before. |
I'll second that recommendaton for the .40 over the 9mm and pretty much everything else Trevor has posted. Most of the police officers that I know carry a .40 Glock.
A .357 mag revolver is a good choice too, but I'd stay away from high power loads for home defense for two reasons. First, the recoil will be more , meaning that if you need a second shot, it'll likely take more time to aim. Second, high velocity rounds will overpenetrate more, meaning that you might shoot and the bullet will go right through the bad guy, through the wall of your house and hit your neighbor's house. You're just trying to take out the bad guy, not bring down a charging grizzly bear. Although for that, I think you'd better step up to a .44 mag and the high power ammo.
If you just want a gun strictly for home defense, I'd suggest a 12ga pump shotgun with 3" shells of #2 shot and a full choke. It's easier to aim when you're freaking out about possibly having to shoot another human being, it's somewhat easier to hit what you're shooting at (you still have to aim it though), the #2 shot will take down any intruder and won't blow big holes in your house in the process. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 01:59:48 PM · #164 |
Along the lines of toy guns, I grew up in NY playing war with friends, but from a very young age I was taught about guns. I do see a problem making toy guns so realistic they can not be identified from the real thing when in the hands of a child who doesnt no better. Thats also a failure on the parents for buying such a toy and not making sure their child is mature enough to handle it. Banning toy guns is not the answer, making manufacturers make them less real is a possibility. Banning real guns is definitely not the answer. If guns never existed yeah, maybe it would be better, but thats a box that cant be shut, the knowledge is already out there and banning real guns would serve one purpose, to take guns out of the hands of people that obey the law, criminals do not obey laws, its what makes them criminals.
Originally posted by togtog:
The two concealed handguns I am looking at are the 9mm Glock and the S&W .40. Both law enforcement endorsed. I just do not like what I have heard about firing multiple shots with a .22 and failing to stop an attacker. A friend linked me to a company that seems to offer a very plain 9mm and .40 for under $200 each. Probably not built for years of daily use but for personal protection probably not a bad deal. |
To put in terms more people would understand, I dont think that is the best approach to determining a handgun to purchase, especially for defense reasons. It would be like buying a camera not built for years of daily use and then expecting to all of a sudden be able to take the perfect picture when you come across it. Its not something you should go into half heartedly, if you are interested in purchasing a handgun, buy one that will last, take safety courses, and by all means use it on a regular basis, safely. If your not willing to put time into train yourself in using a handgun, especially for self defense, it becomes more of a hazard to yourself and family when faced with an attacker.
That all being said, Im a fan of Glock, my recomendation for a defense weapon to carry would be a Glock 23 or Glock 27, both .40 caliber, compact and sub-compact respectively
For a novice who wont shoot much I would go more towards a revolver.
One other thing I would like to add as far as self defense, I keep a gun, but with it I keep a phone. I taught my wife to shoot and my instructions to her in the case of home invasion are simple
1. grab gun and phone
2. grab baby
3. go to safe room and stay there
4. call police
If your not trained to clear a house, the best thing to do is to baracade yourself inside and use the weapon as last resort if you are threatened. let the professionals come and clear your house and let them know you are armed when you do call them.
Message edited by author 2008-07-16 14:07:10. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 02:02:58 PM · #165 |
| Oh, I should add that, a local gun range provides their own firearms in several sizes for practice and training. I do intend to train as much as possible in its operation, I just might not need to wear down my actual firearm in the process. and When I speak of long term I mean like 5 years down the road it might not be in mint condition compared to a more expensive gun, nor does it probably have a good warranty. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 02:05:19 PM · #166 |
My thought, go used. You'd be better off with a used auto-pistol by a reputable manufacturer such as Glock, S&W, Ruger, Springfield Armory, etc than by some new $200 budget firearm.
BTW, did anyone mention to you that you can get Nikkor optics for your firearms. Just in case you didn't think you had a enough glass on your "to buy" list already. ;-)
While .22 may not have the stopping power of a 9mm, .40 or .45, there is something to be said about putting 8 out of 10 rounds in a target the size of a head. ;-)
I've always heard the .40 as the compromise round. A lot of police departments having gone to it as a compromise between those officers who want the extra stopping power of a .45 ACP and those who want the higher capacity of the 9mm. The .40 falling in between on both.
Spazmo is right regarding .357 revolver. You're better off keeping it loaded with .38 Special hollowpoints for self defense. The .357 Magnums can over-penetrate. But its good to keep 357 Magnums in a speed loader in case you need the extra penetration. (Strangely, I do find myself to be significantly more accurate with .357 Magnum rounds than .38 Specials).
|
|
|
|
07/16/2008 02:17:25 PM · #167 |
PS, and trust me, the closer I get to actually buying a firearm the more certain I will be of exactly what I am doing prior, during, and after purchase. Just because a firearm is cheap doesn't mean it is bad per say, but doesn't mean it is good either.
My friend is in the business, background checks specifically, says it isn't a new company and is the most popular company for criminals in Ohio because of the low price and that several motions have been made to force the company to close for that reason, his details are a bit sketchy though.
As long as the thing fires straight when the trigger is pulled, doesn't jam, doesn't grab the top of my hand, and doesn't explode it is probably good enough.
I forgot the exact number but I've heard that several .22 to the head doesn't promise stopping the person as the area of damage is so small it can miss vital parts, kinda the same way a stroke victim doesn't always die. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 02:25:44 PM · #168 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
If I were buying a semi-auto handgun though, I would go with a 40mm over a 9mm, jmo. |
Hopefully you meant a .40 caliber (0.40 inches diameter) -- 40mm would be a cannon (not the camera kind), not a handgun ... |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 02:28:37 PM · #169 |
My recommendation is the Springfield Armory XD in .45acp. The tactical model holds 13+1 rounds of ammo. I prefer the 45 over the 40 because the bullet is bigger and the chamber pressures are lower. Bigger bullet, bigger wound = more stopping power. The XD is more accurate out of the box than the Glock (A very nice piece of Tupperware) and feels slightly better in my hand. It has a polymer frame just like the Glock but feels more balanced to me. I have owned both and many calibers. To add my favorite firearm ever made is the 1911A1.
Revolvers are nice as there is less to think about than a semi-auto handgun but they hold less ammo.
Personal defense ammo for a pistol should be something that creates mass trauma without exiting the body such as the Glaser Safety Slug or hollow point.
As far as the shotgun, it should be no longer than 18.5" for maneuverability and it should be cylinder bore not a full choke. A full or modified choke in a shotgun is for hunting or Trap shooting. I would also load it with 00 Buck shot. 9 big nasty pellets in the house will stop anyone and be less likely to penetrate walls.
PLEASE take a NRA Personal Protection Class.
ETA: In a defensive situation, where you are in fear for your life and the only option is fight, you must aim for the center of the largest area on your target do not try to get cute and aim for the shoulder to try and wound your attacker. If you are about to use a firearm for defense you must stop the attacker which means mortally wound them. There is no other option.
As far as the OP no guns should be banned!
Message edited by author 2008-07-16 14:56:36. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 02:42:17 PM · #170 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by trevytrev:
If I were buying a semi-auto handgun though, I would go with a 40mm over a 9mm, jmo. |
Hopefully you meant a .40 caliber (0.40 inches diameter) -- 40mm would be a cannon (not the camera kind), not a handgun ... |
yeah typo, the 40mm is a bit big:) |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 03:18:43 PM · #171 |
"I forgot the exact number but I've heard that several .22 to the head doesn't "
Depending on where one hits, the effect can be quite diverse. Even larger calibers have bounced off of skulls. The big issue is stopping power. That said, missing with a .45 does less good than hitting with a .22 or 9mm. Hitting with a .45 is of course much more effective. ;-)
|
|
|
|
07/16/2008 04:02:47 PM · #172 |
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:
My recommendation is the Springfield Armory XD in .45acp. The tactical model holds 13+1 rounds of ammo. I prefer the 45 over the 40 because the bullet is bigger and the chamber pressures are lower. Bigger bullet, bigger wound = more stopping power. The XD is more accurate out of the box than the Glock (A very nice piece of Tupperware) and feels slightly better in my hand. It has a polymer frame just like the Glock but feels more balanced to me. I have owned both and many calibers. To add my favorite firearm ever made is the 1911A1.
Revolvers are nice as there is less to think about than a semi-auto handgun but they hold less ammo.
Personal defense ammo for a pistol should be something that creates mass trauma without exiting the body such as the Glaser Safety Slug or hollow point.
As far as the shotgun, it should be no longer than 18.5" for maneuverability and it should be cylinder bore not a full choke. A full or modified choke in a shotgun is for hunting or Trap shooting. I would also load it with 00 Buck shot. 9 big nasty pellets in the house will stop anyone and be less likely to penetrate walls.
PLEASE take a NRA Personal Protection Class.
ETA: In a defensive situation, where you are in fear for your life and the only option is fight, you must aim for the center of the largest area on your target do not try to get cute and aim for the shoulder to try and wound your attacker. If you are about to use a firearm for defense you must stop the attacker which means mortally wound them. There is no other option.
As far as the OP no guns should be banned! |
Hmmm, I find most of the .45 autos, especially those w staggered, high cap mags to be too large for me to grip well. The .40's seem about right.
If you load a shotgun with buckshot, you do want a cylinder choke. However, if it's loaded with #2 birdshot and used with a full choke, at a typical home defense distance, 90% of the pellets will hit in a 3"-6" area and make one nice big gaping hole in the bad guy. Even if you miss completely, the #2 shot will not penetrate through the outer wall of a wooden house. Buckshot will.
And, I agree completely with the notion that if you are considering a firearm for personal/home defense, you need to understand that you don't shoot to wound or cripple, you shoot to kill. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 04:09:13 PM · #173 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Hmmm, I find most of the .45 autos, especially those w staggered, high cap mags to be too large for me to grip well. The .40's seem about right. |
Go hold a XD they have thinned the grip frame it really fits nice.
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
If you load a shotgun with buckshot, you do want a cylinder choke. However, if it's loaded with #2 birdshot and used with a full choke, at a typical home defense distance, 90% of the pellets will hit in a 3"-6" area and make one nice big gaping hole in the bad guy. Even if you miss completely, the #2 shot will not penetrate through the outer wall of a wooden house. Buckshot will. |
I see what you are saying but I surely don't intend to miss :-) plus it is hard to find a defensive shotgun that has a threaded barrel for choke tubes besides I shoot skeet and all I use is the "downtown" choke in my Remington 870. But dead is dead...
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
And, I agree completely with the notion that if you are considering a firearm for personal/home defense, you need to understand that you don't shoot to wound or cripple, you shoot to kill. |
Without question. |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 04:11:18 PM · #174 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Hmmm, I find most of the .45 autos, especially those w staggered, high cap mags to be too large for me to grip well. The .40's seem about right. |
Agreed, that's why I liked the Ruger P-345. Single stack, not quite as high capacity. But it feels nice in the hand!
:) |
|
|
|
07/16/2008 04:29:55 PM · #175 |
I'm wondering which you think is better for home defense & why--a shotgun or a handgun?
And are there really that many people out there armed & prepared to use lethal force in defense of their home? To actually shoot to kill? Waugh! To be effective with a weapon requires constant practice & to be effective with a weapon against an armed & excited opponent who is trying to kill you back requires constant practice under pressure. Not everyone is good at this. It's a nice fantasy, though.
The right dog would be more effective, defensively, IMHO.
I grew up with guns. The biggest animal I've killed is a deer & I only fatally wounded it w/my first shot. I had to track it down & kill it again. I didn't like that much. Even more, I didn't like dragging it back to the truck. It was too much work. I was strictly taught by my Dad from a young age to never point a gun of any kind, toy or real, at anything you don't want to kill. For me, the problem with toy guns is the attitude that it's only a toy, so no discipline is needed, but that lack of discipline/respect can carry over to the real gun. The police have to treat all guns as though they were real--civilians should, too. |
|
