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03/27/2004 01:58:35 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
I don't use PSP so I don't know if it is colour managed, but I'd lay money down that your web browser isn't, so it will show up differently in the two applications. |
See this thread for more info. I don't think PSP is really up to speed in the CMWs. |
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03/27/2004 02:38:31 PM · #27 |
Based on a previous thread, I inferred that EddyG was working in Monitor RGB SP mode, but he didn't make it clear either way. To take an excerpt from Real World Color Management:
Originally posted by :
In PS 6 or later, choose View>Proof Setup>Monitor RGB to send the RGB values in the file directly to the monitor. When you choose Monitor RGB, PS automatically loads the Monitor RGB profile in Proof Setup and checks "Preserve Color Numbers," effectively taking your monitor profile out of the loop. |
If he's editing like that, it might explain why he sees no difference between his Photoshop version and the uploaded version. Of course, others don't see a difference if they convert their work to sRGB before saving and uploading either. One could create an sRGB entry for soft proofing without color number preservation to get a sort of working preview too.
For dpcprints, it might be interesting to soft-proof using their (fuji frontier) profile, convert that result to sRGB, resize, and upload that version as the print preview. An option only for the pedants perhaps.
I'm supposed to be writing a tutorial, but the target audience is extremely small. It's not like this information is new or unavailable anywhere else. In fact, as you'll see in that thread (and based on other private communication), I'm pretty sure I was the first to even bring up the issue.
I don't think many dpcprints sellers really care about CMW, although they do start asking questions when their image looks like ass in a web browser.
Anyway, this is really off-topic. The OP should provide way more information if anyone is going to help him. |
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03/27/2004 02:55:39 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by dwoolridge:
When you choose Monitor RGB, PS automatically loads the Monitor RGB profile in Proof Setup and checks "Preserve Color Numbers," effectively taking your monitor profile out of the loop. |
This seems contradictory to what I've read elsewhere. The Photoshop CS help file says this:
Monitor RGB sets the RGB working space to your current monitor color space. This setting is suitable when you're trying to match the RGB color in non-color-managed applications.
Since a web-browser is not color-managed, it seems an appropriate "proof setup" to use when trying to edit your photos for DPC.
This web page says:
Monitor RGB - soft proofs the image using your actual monitor profile. If the image look bad when this option is selected you know that your monitor profile is broken and needs to be recreated
I don't see anywhere where it says my monitor profile is effectively taken out of the loop.
Adobe's Support Knowledgebase has this entry about colors appearing differently in the "Save for Web" dialog, and suggests either:
1) Disable color management in Photoshop, and discard any color profiles embedded in the image (not a good option, IMHO)
2) Proof the image in the monitor's RGB color space in Photoshop (choose View > Proof Setup > Monitor RGB)
Finally, this DigitalDog PDF file says:
Using “Macintosh RGB” would show a user what a file looks like on a Mac (using a 1.8 display gamma) outside of an ICC savvy application like most web browsers. “Windows RGB” does the same but uses a 2.2 display gamma. These two options might be useful for someone that wants to see how files will appear on different platforms outside of smart, ICC savvy applications like Photoshop. This is a good indication of how poorly and inaccurately files will appear and it is useful to show how much better it is to use ICC savvy applications when viewing images accurately is important. “Monitor RGB” produces the same function but uses the actual users ICC display profile to produce the previews without regard to the documents embedded profile. This shows how a file will appear on a users machine outside of Photoshop (or any non ICC savvy applications).
But obviously if I'm doing something wrong, I'd like to know...
Message edited by author 2004-03-27 14:59:58. |
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03/27/2004 05:09:18 PM · #29 |
Again Eddy, it depends what you set your monitor profile to. All 'monitor RGB" means is use the profile assigned to the monitor.
I can go in to my display settings and set my monitor profile to sRGB (the normal default) or I can profile my screen and get different results.
If you proof with your monitor setting though, you effectively remove the monitor profile effects - which is what dwoolridge I assume meant by 'taking it out of the loop'
Normally what is displayed is converted to the monitor profile. If you proof with it, you get no convertion - it is basically sent raw to the screen - because you are assigning the profile that you normally convert to - it sort of double negates itself out of the picture.
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03/28/2004 11:07:02 AM · #30 |
Specifically, open the file in the browser - for IE you can drag and drop the pic and it will open (bmp or jpeg or gif)
Make sure the vid card is set to 32000 colors or true color. Make sure youa are saving the pic in a browser safe pallette -not as big a deal as it used to be, but can still be an issue. Make sure you are looking at in your editor at 100% view as that is how the browser will display it.
To get the final file size of 150k or less, you will no doubt use jpeg compression - compress as little as possible. Most pics at 640x480 or so will compress to 130-150k without a loss or degradation in quality (that is noticeable anyway). if th epic is larger (say 800 or an original 1500x something) and you use jpeg to get the file size you need then you are going to kill the quality of the pic.
chris [/quote]
Chris... thanks for all the information....I still have a few more questions....
1. My moniter is set on high(32) is that what you were talking about with the video card?
2. I have adjusted my monitor with the gamma correction in the control panel. It is set at sRGB
3. When I resize for DPC I do it in steps... 90% of original at a time until I reach the sixe limits. Then when I save I use the compression wizard and compress until it is the closest but not going over the 150 limit.
Is this what I should be doing? Thanks so much for helping me sort this out. I just figured everybody had image loss when posting until I read the original post. Maybe there is help for me. Mary
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03/28/2004 11:48:30 AM · #31 |
You don't really need to bother doing stepwise size reduction - just reduce the size to what you want in one step and sharpen slightly afterwards.
Any marginal benefits of doing step interpolation are only potentially visible when enlarging the image, and even then it is pretty minor difference from what I've seen.
The reasons for doing it when enlarging are because you are creating pixels and new information in the process, and the step enlargement may minimise some rounding errors introduced at each level, but sizing down you are only throwing away information.
Message edited by author 2004-03-28 11:55:49. |
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03/28/2004 06:11:31 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Gordon:
You don't really need to bother doing stepwise size reduction - just reduce the size to what you want in one step and sharpen slightly afterwards.
Any marginal benefits of doing step interpolation are only potentially visible when enlarging the image, and even then it is pretty minor difference from what I've seen.
The reasons for doing it when enlarging are because you are creating pixels and new information in the process, and the step enlargement may minimise some rounding errors introduced at each level, but sizing down you are only throwing away information. |
Good that will make resizing photos I don't crop much faster to resize. Is there anything you could recommend to make sure the image stays the same from editing program to site? I always save in jpeg... but with a new name ...the number of the photo with letters added on the end. Should I save in some other format? |
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03/28/2004 07:28:43 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by WildflowerJoy:
Is there anything you could recommend to make sure the image stays the same from editing program to site? |
This is where this thread started - there are various things that can change from the resized version to the version seen on a web site and it becomes an issue of what changes.
3 basic things can change
1/Colour/saturation - if the colour changes or shifts between the edited version and the web version, then you have a profiling problem - usually you are tagging the image with a profile other than sRGB and the browsers all throw those away. It'll look right in an application that is profile aware (photoshop etc) but often weakly saturated or faded in a browser
2/ detail/ sharpness - you can lose some of this due to resizing - I typically apply a bit more USM after resizing down for web display.
You can also lose detail/ sharpness by too much JPEG compression - this usually appears as large blocky areas in the shot
3/ detail again - the site you've uploaded to might resize the image again, without you knowing, or resave as a JPEG at a lower compression - again this will result in blockyness or loss of sharpness.
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