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03/25/2004 04:59:21 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by Russell2566:
I don't, I expect the Supreme Court to uphold the findings of the 9th Circus. Just like they do with 75% of all of the 9th's findings, they are over turned. The 9th Circus court is the biggest joke in this country! |
Even my liberal law professors agreed with that. 5th CC rules. :)
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03/25/2004 06:17:52 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by jab119:
why does the phrase "under god" need to be in the pledge in the first place???? What purpose does it serve in pledging your allegiance to the USA and the Flag of the USA???
We went 62 years with out that phrase in the pledge
it was not originally there so why not take it back out
James |
As far as I understand it, it was added in to differentiate the US from the godless communists.
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03/25/2004 06:23:08 PM · #28 |
Probably changed around the time of McCarthyism.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by jab119:
why does the phrase "under god" need to be in the pledge in the first place???? What purpose does it serve in pledging your allegiance to the USA and the Flag of the USA???
We went 62 years with out that phrase in the pledge
it was not originally there so why not take it back out
James |
As far as I understand it, it was added in to differentiate the US from the godless communists. |
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03/25/2004 06:26:29 PM · #29 |
another thought for those who just claim 'you can always leave the room'
Do you remember being young ? Do you remember how much fun it was to be singled out as different to all of your friends ?
And I don't mean a teenager trying to pretend to be different by dressing in black like all of your friends.
The idea that someone who doesn't want to do it can just 'opt out' without any consquences is at best naive, but more likely deliberately disingenuous.
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03/25/2004 07:05:19 PM · #30 |
| Especially when the child attends a school where mandatory dress is a school uniform. |
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03/25/2004 07:05:28 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Zoomdak:
The words "Seperation of Church and State" do not exist in the constitution. And they were originally made to guard the church from the state. Not the state from the church.
I personally believe that "under God" should not be taken out. People are not forced to say it, they don't have to stand. Saying the Pledge is rhetoric. It is not forced, it shouldn't be changed. |
Then why was it ok to change it in 1954? That's when the words "under God were added. This case is about reversing that change, reverting the pledge back to its prior (1924) form.
-Terry
Message edited by author 2004-03-25 19:09:30.
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03/25/2004 07:16:56 PM · #32 |
| i say get rid of the whole thing. why should we have to pledge to the government as well? |
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03/25/2004 07:20:58 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
Although I believe that under god should be struck, I have a larger problem with the phrase "with liberty and justice for all". It's a nice goal, but as a matter-of-fact, something that will never occur. I think it's wrong to indoctrinate children into a belief that we have established liberty and justice for everyone.
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agreed.
personally, when i was in school i did not stand up for the pledge because i thought it was stupid to pledge a flag. now in retrospect, i think its stupid to force kids to pledge anything like that that they dont understand. its that kind of thing that makes people blindly believe in something.
and christopher columbus was a mass murderer.. |
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03/25/2004 09:16:30 PM · #34 |
18 year-old private Christian school senior here.
Originally posted by Zoomdak:
The words "Seperation of Church and State" do not exist in the Constitution. And they were originally made to guard the church from the state. Not the state from the church. |
Just wanted to repeat this point, not enough people know it.
I don't want to get into the middle of the controversy, but I agree with several points:
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
i think its stupid to force kids to pledge anything like that that they dont understand. its that kind of thing that makes people blindly believe in something. |
Blind belief is bad, but if it would be explained to us, then perhaps people would better understand WHY it is there. I had to wait until I came to a private school to learn about these kinds of things.
Originally posted by Gordon:
Do you remember how much fun it was to be singled out as different to all of your friends ? |
I just had to deal with that today, I had to choose whether or not to leave the room while we were watching a video. It WAS hard, but as I know from watching others do it, I respect that person more for not compromising their beliefs/values to fit in. And even if people laugh at you, usually they are jealous or wanting to show off for others.
As for the pledge, I am a Christian and have no problem pledging to a country under God. It's not that we are pledging to God, but to our country under God. Whether you choose to believe that God exists is your own decision.
Message edited by author 2004-03-25 21:17:20.
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03/25/2004 10:56:35 PM · #35 |
If the phrase "under god" is kept in "The Pledge," do you think that a child may view disagreement, speaking out against and resistance to governmental policy and action as also being disloyal and sacrilegious to their god/religion? That a child may then confuse god and country as synonymous? And if so, is this healthy for a country that adheres to democratic principles?
Originally posted by Ami Yuy:
As for the pledge, I am a Christian and have no problem pledging to a country under God. It's not that we are pledging to God, but to our country under God. Whether you choose to believe that God exists is your own decision. |
Message edited by author 2004-03-26 11:20:31. |
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03/26/2004 09:42:02 PM · #36 |
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03/27/2004 04:02:10 PM · #37 |
Honestly, my belief in God is strong enough that it doesn't matter if it's in the Pledge or not.
For what it's worth, I understand that the students leave the room because the choose to... well, more accurately because their parents told them to. I know when I was in school I never gave the Pledge that much thought.
*funny, I'm listening to Controversy by Prince at the very instant!*
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03/27/2004 04:15:31 PM · #38 |
To those who want more prayer in public schools:
As an atheist, I am constantly amazed at the sometimes ferocious territoriality of the prosylytizing religious right and left.
You know, you can teach religion to your kids in your home to your heart's content 24 hours a day.
The same goes for your church.
The same goes for any parochial school you care to send your kids to.
The same goes for every darn public space in our country - teach your kids Christianity in the mall and no one has a problem with it.
About the ONLY place anyone asks that you keep your religious opinions to yourself is the public schools.
Why is that such a difficult sacrifice to make in a democracy? |
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03/27/2004 07:49:11 PM · #39 |
I'm wondering if the word "THEOCRACY" rings true here.
Originally posted by gingerbaker:
To those who want more prayer in public schools:
As an atheist, I am constantly amazed at the sometimes ferocious territoriality of the prosylytizing religious right and left.
About the ONLY place anyone asks that you keep your religious opinions to yourself is the public schools.
Why is that such a difficult sacrifice to make in a democracy? |
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