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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Talking to commenters during challenges
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 05/03/2008 05:06:26 AM · #1
I've been wondering this week, if it is acceptable and/or common place for people to discuss their current entry with those who leave comments. I recently received a comment that seems more like a question, and it crossed my mind that since they were not anonymous I could reply if I wanted to, so before doing anything else I decided to talk about it here. As for their reply, they will have to wait until the end of the challenge. I don't believe it is fair to give away who you are during a challenge even to those who have already voted, since they can change their vote.

Thanks for any insight, cheers!
05/03/2008 05:29:24 AM · #2
Well it's got to be acceptable as the comments aren't anonymous. Commonplace? it is the exception rather than the rule.

Speaking personally, I don't mind receiving responses to my comments and I don't ever change my vote as a consequence, so if it's one of my few comments that has prompted this, then feel free to respond. It's very probable that I would learn from your response.

Message edited by author 2008-05-03 05:29:44.
 05/03/2008 06:12:09 AM · #3
I don't mind replies to the comments I leave. Sometimes their reply opens my eyes to what my narrow view may have been missing. After all, this is a learning site first for me, before being a competitive site.
 05/03/2008 06:20:29 AM · #4
Well I take the view that if someone wants to persuade me to rethink the way I have voted via a PM then they are seeking an unfair advantage.

I usually respond to PM̢۪s during a challenge but I will never change my vote because it is unfair to all those entries that have not sent a PM or those that I didn̢۪t leave a comment on.
05/03/2008 09:04:36 AM · #5
I generally do not PM commenters until after the challenge is over because I don't want even the perception that I might be attempting to influence their vote. Anything that the commenter might learn from additional information can still be learned after the challenge is over in less than a week.

There has been at least one exception to my policy. I received a comment on my highest scoring ever challenge entry
that said "I'm sorry. This has to be fake."

I couldn't help myself and PM'd her to assure her that it was real and that I was within a foot or two of the alligator. I was also adamant in the PM that I would prefer that she didn't change her vote (whatever it was) because that is not what I was contacting her about. Like I said, above, the PM could have waited until the challenge was over but I made an exception. Normally, I prefer to wait.

edited for spelling

Message edited by author 2008-05-03 09:06:03.
 05/03/2008 09:22:44 AM · #6
As previous posters have said, it's ok, but the understanding is that the PM should not be an attempt to sway their vote. It is simply a discussion, or a response to a question.
 05/03/2008 10:12:01 AM · #7
IMHO it is poor form for people to breach the annonymity of their shot by contacting a commenter before the challenge is over. I was actually surprised when I started DPC that comments are not annonymous until the challenges are over. Correct me if I'm missing something, but the only reason I see for knowing who a comment is from during a challenge is if people lack the patience to see who left comments (and respond if you want) after the voting is over. It just seems like a strange loophole to the usual DPC adherence to annonymity during voting to have things as they are now.
 05/03/2008 10:26:28 AM · #8
If you are a member you can set your preferences to hide your name until the challenge is over. I have done this. I started with a policy never to change my vote if I was contacted during the voting. I viewed this as having more info on the one image and that might put the other images at a disadvantage.

I changed the preference as I often go back an review my votes after a first pass for consistency and change a number of them - usually for the better - I wanted to be able to do this on all the images.

Also if you are a member you can set your preferences so that you cannot see the names of those who comment on you image until after the voting is done.
 05/03/2008 10:32:32 AM · #9
Originally posted by JMart:
IMHO it is poor form for people to breach the annonymity of their shot by contacting a commenter before the challenge is over. I was actually surprised when I started DPC that comments are not annonymous until the challenges are over. Correct me if I'm missing something, but the only reason I see for knowing who a comment is from during a challenge is if people lack the patience to see who left comments (and respond if you want) after the voting is over. It just seems like a strange loophole to the usual DPC adherence to annonymity during voting to have things as they are now.


I agree with JMart, comments should be anonymous during voting. I was also surprised just now to see that for members that is an option. That loophole should be eliminated.
 05/03/2008 10:42:22 AM · #10
Originally posted by photodude:
I was also surprised just now to see that for members that is an option. That loophole should be eliminated.


Yup, I hadn't thought about that feature much and just changed my settings to keep everything anonymous until voting is over.
 05/03/2008 11:00:20 AM · #11
I don't think communication with voters during the voting period is ethical either. Though I'll admit that in the past I've done it too. So to avoid the temptation to answer commenters questions I made commenters anonymous. Its an option you can set in your preferences panel.

On a side note, another thing that I feel is unethical is for people here to post their images on other sites that reveals their identity while that same image is in voting here, especially when there are people that are part of both sites.

Message edited by author 2008-05-03 11:42:32.
 05/03/2008 11:11:25 AM · #12
I personally do not mind if I am contacted. I would never change my vote on a shot if they did contact me or not.

SOmetimes I will leave a comment, and they will contact me to say 'oh yes i see that' or explain something in a shot.

05/03/2008 11:22:48 AM · #13
That's why the brown bag was invented. Not to be devious during voting but because some people hate to be contacted during voting. While not illegal, it is considered bad form. why can't it wait untill the voting ends if you are not attempting to sway your vote?
 05/03/2008 01:47:49 PM · #14
Thank you all for your replies, I see it isn't an issue set in stone by any means :)

I personally think it would be nice to be able to reply anonymously to commenters, with a 1 day hold on the message after sending it, that way it would keep the photographer completely anonymous and allow them to explain things about their photo.

Side note: I had finding a little piece of lettuce in my supposedly lettuce free product, yuck!
05/03/2008 01:50:57 PM · #15
Originally posted by JMart:
IMHO it is poor form for people to breach the annonymity of their shot by contacting a commenter before the challenge is over. I was actually surprised when I started DPC that comments are not annonymous until the challenges are over. Correct me if I'm missing something, but the only reason I see for knowing who a comment is from during a challenge is if people lack the patience to see who left comments (and respond if you want) after the voting is over. It just seems like a strange loophole to the usual DPC adherence to annonymity during voting to have things as they are now.


Personally I like being able to see peoples names because then I go and check out their work and compare it to my own talents to gauge if they are "qualified" to make certain judgments about my photo.
 05/03/2008 02:28:12 PM · #16
Originally posted by togtog:
Personally I like being able to see peoples names because then I go and check out their work and compare it to my own talents to gauge if they are "qualified" to make certain judgments about my photo.


I never make that assumption. I figure that the skill to see what could be done with a photograph in front of someone is different that the skill needed to create a good image. So I take every comment just as seriously. That is why most people can appreciate a good image and yet could never create one themselves. And why is well that there is a market for good images. All comments are of valuable in they it give me the opinion that is from someone different coming at it from a new angle rather than just my own biased opinion on my own image.

05/03/2008 02:52:45 PM · #17
Originally posted by togtog:

Personally I like being able to see peoples names because then I go and check out their work and compare it to my own talents to gauge if they are "qualified" to make certain judgments about my photo.

The validity of a comment should not change based on who made it IMHO, but even if you want to 'check the credentials' of a commenter, that option would still be available at the end of the week if it is all that important. How do you handle anonymous commenters now? I'm always curious who those folks are and I go back and look at weeks end and I haven't lost anything by waiting 'til things are over.
 05/03/2008 02:57:39 PM · #18
Yeah yeah, you are right. It still feels good for someone with a bunch of blues to say a certain photo is great, or a great attempt. Then again, it can really hurt when someone with a lot of blues says a photo is horrible.

You are right though that in hindsight it is easy to see what could have been done differently, different lighting, location, etc.
 05/03/2008 03:14:45 PM · #19
My own personal choice is that any communication regarding comments can wait until AFTER the voting. Nothing gained by not waiting a few days. Communication on a specific entry during voting, violates the whole reason that the photographer is not revealed during the challenge, IMO.
05/03/2008 03:20:41 PM · #20
I can see both sides of what the "checking credentials" brings to the table. I'll use American Idol as an example. I agree almost always with what Randy and Simon have to say, but I tend to respect Randy more because of his experience in the music industry.

On that note I also think it's also "criticism" versus "constructive criticism" Simon offers "criticism" while Randy offers "constructive criticism"
 05/04/2008 04:51:55 AM · #21
in the healthy food challenge running now one image i have no idea what it is and makes it hard to give a score so i added in comments to pm me then i'll revise my vote from a 1 if warranted
 05/04/2008 05:33:14 AM · #22
Originally posted by togtog:
Personally I like being able to see peoples names because then I go and check out their work and compare it to my own talents to gauge if they are "qualified" to make certain judgments about my photo.


Originally posted by fixedintime:
I never make that assumption. I figure that the skill to see what could be done with a photograph in front of someone is different that the skill needed to create a good image. So I take every comment just as seriously. That is why most people can appreciate a good image and yet could never create one themselves. And why is well that there is a market for good images. All comments are of valuable in they it give me the opinion that is from someone different coming at it from a new angle rather than just my own biased opinion on my own image.

The only qualifier I'd make to that is that usually when I go check out a commenter, it's because I don't care much for the comment.

I have a hard time swallowing a criticism if the commenter has a substantially lower scoring average and I feel that the comment was off base.

I don't necessarily call them on it, but I do grouse about it to myself.

One time I did tell someone that their comment was off base and ignorant because, well......it was.
 05/04/2008 05:35:20 AM · #23
Originally posted by Ter:
in the healthy food challenge running now one image i have no idea what it is and makes it hard to give a score so i added in comments to pm me then i'll revise my vote from a 1 if warranted

IMNSHO, your score should stand because if the image has to be explained, then the photog didn't convey to you his intent.

Revising your vote woud be incorrect protocol.

YMMV.....
 05/04/2008 06:03:00 AM · #24
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by togtog:
Personally I like being able to see peoples names because then I go and check out their work and compare it to my own talents to gauge if they are "qualified" to make certain judgments about my photo.


Originally posted by fixedintime:
I never make that assumption. I figure that the skill to see what could be done with a photograph in front of someone is different that the skill needed to create a good image. So I take every comment just as seriously. That is why most people can appreciate a good image and yet could never create one themselves. And why is well that there is a market for good images. All comments are of valuable in they it give me the opinion that is from someone different coming at it from a new angle rather than just my own biased opinion on my own image.

The only qualifier I'd make to that is that usually when I go check out a commenter, it's because I don't care much for the comment.

I have a hard time swallowing a criticism if the commenter has a substantially lower scoring average and I feel that the comment was off base.

I don't necessarily call them on it, but I do grouse about it to myself.

One time I did tell someone that their comment was off base and ignorant because, well......it was.


That's very "encouraging" for the non-ribbon commenters. I stopped commenting some time ago (although I've only one unpleasant PM ages ago, as I try to keep my comments humble and gentle taking into consideration my own scores), first on the photos I found weak, then also on the ones I liked very much. Why? I had suspicions my credentials are not enough to comment. And I was right it seams.

Edited: typo

Message edited by author 2008-05-04 07:13:20.
 05/04/2008 06:50:04 AM · #25
Originally posted by rennie:
That's very "encouraging" for the non-ribbon commenters. I stopped commenting some time ago (although I didn't get only one unpleasant PM ages ago, as I try to keep my comments humble and gentle taking into consideration my own scores), first on the photos I found weak, then also on the ones I liked very much. Why? I had suspicions my credentials are not enough to comment. And I was right it seams.

BAH!! Comment away! Comments should be taken as opinion and do NOT NEED TO BE QUALIFIED! You can take the crappiest photos in the world and it has nothing to do with what you think about a particular image of someone else's.

Commenter's need to get thick skin as much as the photogs do!

Message edited by author 2008-05-04 06:50:21.
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