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AuthorThread
 02/20/2008 06:11:20 PM · #1
''I'' ''just'' ''joined'' ''a'' ''couple'' ''of'' ''days'' ''ago'', ''looking'' ''to'' ''get'' ''some'' ''constructive'' ''criticism'' ''and'' ''looking'' ''to'' ''learn''.

''Now'', ''with'' ''all'' ''this'' ''talk'' ''of'' ''trolling'' (''whatever'' ''that'' ''is''?) ''and'' ''manipulative'' ''voting'', ''I'''''m'' ''second'' ''guessing'' ''my'' ''decision''... ''but'' ''I'' ''do'' ''want'' ''to'' ''give'' ''it'' ''a'' ''chance''. ''I'' ''was'' ''a'' ''bit'' ''surprised'' ''that'' ''DPC'' ''shows'' ''real'' ''time'' ''vote'' ''monitoring''. ''Perhaps'' ''they'' ''should'' ''hide'' ''the'' ''vote'' ''until'' ''the'' ''final'' ''results'' ''or'' ''only'' ''allow'' ''people'' ''to'' ''vote'' ''once''. ''Whatever''. ''I'' ''hope'' ''people'' ''vote'' (''and'' ''comment'') ''according'' ''to'' ''their'' ''standards'' ''and'' ''consciences'', ''regardless''.

''I'''''ve'' ''read'' ''what'' ''I'' ''could'' ''on'' '''how' ''to'' ''vote'' (''though'' ''a'' ''lot'' ''of'' ''this'' ''info'' ''seems'' ''pretty'' ''buried''). ''I'''''m'' ''still'' ''unclear'' ''whether'' ''I'' ''should'' ''vote'' ''on'' ''an'' ''absolute'' ''standard'' ''or'' ''on'' ''a'' ''bell'' ''curve''. ''Should'' ''I'' ''shoot'' ''to'' ''have'' ''my'' ''vote'' ''average'' ''maintain'' ''a'' ''certain'' ''magic'' ''number''? ''It'''''s'' ''a'' ''bit'' ''confusing''. ''For'' ''example'', ''some'' ''photographs'' ''are'' ''really'' ''nice'' ''but'' ''don'''''t'' ''relate'' ''well'' ''to'' ''the'' ''specific'' ''challenge''. ''Others'' ''appear'' ''to'' ''be'' ''entered'' ''simply'' ''as'' ''a'' ''joke'' ''or'' ''just'' ''to'' ''get'' ''something'' ''in'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''without'' ''a'' ''whole'' ''lot'' ''of'' ''thought'' ''as'' ''to'' ''their'' ''quality''. ''The'' ''titles'' ''are'' ''often'' ''a'' ''bit'' ''off'' ''the'' ''wall'' ''and'' ''detract'' ''from'' ''an'' ''otherwise'' ''nice'' ''shot'', ''and'' ''some'' ''are'' ''phrased'' ''in'' ''such'' ''a'' ''way'' ''as'' ''to'' ''legitimize'' ''an'' ''entry'' ''that'' ''probably'' ''wouldn'''''t'' ''stand'' ''on'' ''its'' ''own''. ''Hmmm'', ''what'' ''to'' ''do''?

''The'' ''Voting'' ''Rules'' (//''www''.''dpchallenge''.''com''/''challenge_rules''.''php''?''RULES_ID''=''13) ''are'' ''heavy'' ''on'' '''how' ''to'' ''disqualify'' ''but'' ''light'' ''on'' ''guidelines''/''suggestions'' ''for'' ''evaluating''.

''Any'' ''guidance'' ''appreciated''. ''Bottom'' ''line'': ''I'' ''want'' ''to'' ''become'' ''a'' ''better'' ''shooter'', ''and'' ''maybe'' ''help'' ''others'' ''too''.

''pmk

''Message'' ''edited'' ''by'' ''author'' ''2008''-''02''-''20'' ''18'':''33'':''32''.
 02/20/2008 06:17:14 PM · #2
''All'' ''I'' ''can'' ''say'' (''and'' ''I'' ''am'' ''relativly'' ''new'' ''too'') ''is'' ''understand'' ''the'' ''subject'' ''of'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''before'' ''you'' ''go'' ''frollicing'' ''into'' ''voting'' ''on'' ''the'' ''photos''. ''I'' ''think'' ''too'' ''many'' ''of'' ''us'' ''amateurs'' ''just'' ''hop'' ''into'' ''it'' ''without'' ''having'' ''the'' ''foggiest'' ''clue'' ''as'' ''to'' ''what'' ''to'' ''look'' ''for''. ''But'' ''I'' ''have'' ''learned'' ''quite'' ''a'' ''bit'' ''in'' ''the'' ''past'' ''few'' ''months'' ''and'' ''everyone'' ''is'' ''helpful''.
02/20/2008 06:19:20 PM · #3
''just'' ''give'' ''everyone'' ''10'''''s''
 02/20/2008 06:20:51 PM · #4
''Basically'', ''vote'' ''according'' ''to'' ''your'' ''own'' ''guidelines''. ''Some'' ''base'' ''their'' ''voting'' ''on'' ''technical'' ''ability'', ''others'' ''on'' ''aesthetic'' ''appeal'', ''others'' ''simply'' ''on'' ''gut''-''reaction''. ''Personally'' ''I'' ''base'' ''my'' ''scores'' ''on'' ''an'' ''absolute'' - ''so'' ''in'' ''some'' ''challenges'' ''I'' ''may'' ''give'' ''out'' ''4'', ''5'', ''or'' ''more'' ''votes'' ''of'' ''10'', ''and'' ''in'' ''another'' ''challenge'' ''the'' ''highest'' ''vote'' ''I'' ''might'' ''give'' ''could'' ''be'' ''a'' ''7''; ''others'' ''use'' ''a'' ''bell''-''curve''. ''Neither'' ''is'' ''right'', ''neither'' ''is'' ''wrong''.

''I'' ''wouldn'''''t'' ''give'' ''to'' ''much'' ''credence'' ''to'' ''the'' ''current'' ''round'' ''of'' ''troll'' ''threads''. ''They'' ''are'' ''a'' ''regular'' ''feature'' ''of'' ''the'' ''forums'', ''yet'' ''few'' ''can'' ''agree'' ''on'' ''the'' ''definition'' ''of'' ''a'' ''troll'' ''let'' ''alone'' ''on'' ''whether'' ''they'' ''actually'' ''exist''. ''There'' ''is'' ''a'' ''system'' ''in'' ''place'' (''I'' ''have'' ''no'' ''idea'' ''as'' ''to'' ''its'' ''sophistication'') ''to'' ''discount'' ''votes'' ''fom'' ''users'' ''who'' ''are'' ''voting'' ''in'' ''a'' ''way'' ''that'' ''suggests'' ''a'' ''clear'' ''attempt'' ''to'' ''disrupt'' ''the'' ''process'', ''this'' ''kicks'' ''in'' ''at'' ''the'' ''end'' ''of'' ''voting'', ''so'' ''you'' ''occasionaaly'' ''see'' ''your'' ''vote'' ''go'' ''up'' ''or'' ''down'' ''slightly'' ''at'' ''that'' ''point''.

''Enjoy'' ''DPC'', ''it'' ''is'' ''a'' ''great'' ''site'' - ''and'' ''judging'' ''by'' '''how' ''you'' ''are'' ''doing'' ''in'' ''your'' ''first'' ''challenge'', ''you'' ''will'' ''be'' ''an'' ''asset'' ''to'' ''it'', ''too''.
 02/20/2008 06:27:21 PM · #5
''my'' ''advice'' ''is'' ''just'' ''to'' ''be'' ''consistent'', ''in'' ''the'' ''end'' ''its'' ''up'' ''to'' ''you'' ''as'' ''to'' ''whats'' ''most'' ''important'', ''technicals'', ''fitting'' ''the'' ''challenge'', ''the'' ''whole'' ''package'', ''personal'' ''tastes'' ''etc''. ''Everyone'' ''votes'' ''different''.
''Oh'' ''and'' ''what'' ''Sara'' ''said'' ''about'' ''the'' ''troll'' ''threads'', ''they'' ''come'' ''up'' ''all'' ''the'' ''time'', ''basically'' ''everything'' ''is'' ''fine''. :)
 02/20/2008 06:31:22 PM · #6
''Welcome''! ''You'''''ve'' ''summed'' ''up'' ''the'' ''voting'' ''variables'' ''quite'' ''nicely''. ''I'''''ve'' ''been'' ''here'' ''off'' ''and'' ''on'' ''for'' ''quite'' ''awhile'' (''never'' ''too'' ''far'' ''away'', ''though'') ''and'' ''voting'' ''has'' ''always'' ''been'' ''an'' ''on''-''going'' ''topic'' ''discussion''. ''I'' ''have'' ''no'' ''magic'' ''formula'' ''and'' ''my'' ''average'' ''vote'' ''given'' ''is'' ''around'' ''5''. ''I'''''ve'' ''been'' ''trying'' ''to'' ''vote'' ''higher'' ''but'' ''because'' ''of'' ''all'' ''the'' ''things'' ''you'''''ve'' ''mentioned'', ''I'' ''seem'' ''to'' ''stay'' ''in'' ''the'' ''4'' ''to'' ''7'' ''range''. ''I'' ''stopped'' ''voting'' ''on'' ''member'' ''challenges'' ''because'' ''the'' ''post'' ''processing'' ''got'' ''pretty'' ''extreme'' ''for'' ''my'' ''taste''. ''I'' ''sometimes'' ''sit'' ''out'' ''on'' ''voting'' ''if'' ''my'' ''entry'' ''is'' ''doing'' ''poorer'' ''than'' ''I'' ''anticipated'' ''or'' ''I'''''ll'' ''wait'' ''and'' ''vote'' ''after'' ''I'''''ve'' ''re''-''evaluated'' ''my'' ''photo'' ''and'' ''realized'' ''that'' ''the'' ''voters'' ''were'' ''probably'' ''right''. ;)
''It'' ''is ''a'' ''great'' ''learning'' ''site'' ''with'' ''many'' ''awesome'' ''photographers'' ''participating''. ''You'''''ll'' ''figure'' ''it'' ''out''. ''You'''''ve'' ''got'' ''the'' ''right'' ''attitude''. ''Good'' ''luck''!
 02/20/2008 06:46:27 PM · #7
''I'''''m'' ''fairly'' ''new'' ''here'' ''also'' ''and'' ''before'' ''I'' ''was'' ''comfortable'' ''with'' ''voting'' ''I'' ''had'' ''to'' ''go'' ''back'' ''through'' ''some'' ''of'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''archives'' ''to'' ''get'' ''a'' ''sense'' ''of'' ''what'' ''the'' ''norms'' ''are'' ''here'' ''for'' ''scores'' ''and'' ''comments''. ''I'' ''also'' ''learned'' ''several'' ''useful'' ''photo'' ''lessons'' ''doing'' ''that'' ''process''.

''One'' ''thing'' ''that'''''s'' ''very'' ''clear'' ''to'' ''me'' ''at'' ''this'' ''point'' ''is'' ''that'' ''commenting'' ''is'' ''far'' ''more'' ''important'' ''than'' ''the'' ''number'' ''I'' ''end'' ''up'' ''giving'' ''a'' ''photo''. ''It'' ''lets'' ''the'' ''photographer'' ''know'' ''what'' ''I'''''m'' ''seeing'' ''and'' ''it'' ''forces'' ''me'' ''to'' ''study'' ''the'' ''picture'' ''more'' ''closely'', ''giving'' ''it'' ''a'' ''fair'' ''shake'' ''as'' ''it'' ''were''. ''There'' ''have'' ''been'' ''many'' ''times'' ''when'' ''I'' ''hit'' ''4'' ''or'' ''5'' ''as'' ''a'' ''first'' ''reaction'' ''but'' ''then'', ''as'' ''I'' ''thought'' ''about'' ''what'' ''to'' ''comment'' ''about'', ''I'''''ve'' ''had'' "''ah''-''ha''" ''moments'' ''about'' ''some'' ''cool'' ''feature''(''s'') ''that'' ''made'' ''some'' ''photos'' ''worthy'' ''of'' ''bumping'' ''up'' ''a'' ''point'' ''or'' ''two''. ''I'' ''wish'' ''commenters'' ''were'' ''given'' ''2x'' ''weight'' ''in'' ''scoring'' ''since'' ''I'' ''know'' ''my'' ''votes'' ''are'' ''much'' ''better'' ''thought'' ''out'' ''when'' ''I'' ''comment''.

''Just'' ''my'' ''2'' ''cents''.
 02/20/2008 07:04:25 PM · #8
''Being'' ''one'' ''of'' ''the'' ''folks'' ''who'' ''has'' ''sometimes'' ''posted'' ''a'' ''humorous'' ''photo'' ''of'' ''questionable'' ''quality'', ''I'' ''can'' ''understand'' ''your'' ''confusion''. (''My'' ''bread'' ''entry'', ''for'' ''instance'', ''was'' ''aiming'' ''for'' ''humor'' ''and'' ''comments'', ''rather'' ''than'' ''a'' ''high'' ''vote''. ''I'' ''hit'' ''my'' ''goal'' ''on'' ''that'' ''one''.) ''As'' ''has'' ''been'' ''said'' ''before'', ''there'' ''are'' ''no'' ''absolute'' ''standards''. ''I'' ''tend'' ''to'' ''vote'' ''primarily'' ''on'' ''quality'', ''but'' ''if'' ''a'' ''photo'' ''shows'' ''a'' ''very'' ''creative'' ''idea'', ''I'' ''may'' ''bump'' ''it'' ''up'' ''a'' ''point'' ''or'' ''two'' ''for'' ''that''. ''Likewise'', ''I'' ''may'' ''knock'' ''off'' ''a'' ''point'' ''or'' ''two'' ''if'' ''I'' ''feel'' ''it'' ''has'' ''no'' ''relationship'' ''to'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''theme''. ''I'' ''also'' ''do'' ''a'' ''lot'' ''of'' ''commenting'', ''and'' ''as'' ''has'' ''already'' ''been'' ''said'',''the'' ''strongest'' ''learning'' ''experience'' ''to'' ''be'' ''had'' ''here'' ''comes'' ''from'' ''making'' ''yourself'' ''analyze'' ''others'' ''entries''.

''This'' ''FAQ'' ''thread'' ''may'' ''help'' ''some''.
 02/20/2008 07:08:51 PM · #9
''I'' ''don'''''t'' ''think'' ''it'' ''matters'' '''how' ''we'' ''vote''. ''The'' ''winners'' ''are'' ''predetermined'' ''by'' ''other'' ''criteria''. ''Probably'' ''long'' ''before'' ''the'' ''challenges'' ''are'' ''even'' ''announced''.


02/20/2008 07:19:23 PM · #10

''From'' ''previous'' ''threads'':

''This'' ''is'' '''how' ''I'' ''try'' (''very'' ''hard'') ''to'' ''vote'':

1 > ''a'' ''technically'' (''focus'', ''exposure'', ''balance'', ''effects'', ''lighting'', ''sharpening'', ''saturation'', ''colour'', ''cast'', ''evidence'' ''of'' ''artifacts'' ''etc''.) ''incompetent'' ''photo'' ''or'' ''an'' ''entirely'' ''unintelligible'' ''one'' (''sometimes'' ''due'' ''to'' ''image'' ''size''), ''an'' '''offensive''' ''one'' ''to'' ''civilized'' ''nature'' ''or'' (''even'') ''a'' ''technically'' ''apt'' ''photo'' ''which'' '''clearly''' ''demonstrates'' ''a'' '''failure'' ''of'' ''feeling'''

2 > ''a'' ''technically'' ''lacking'' ''photo'' ''with'' ''little'' ''or'' ''no'' ''perceptible'' ''artistic'' (''choice'' ''of'' ''subject'', ''composition'', ''perspective'', ''manner'', ''emotional'' ''energy'' ''and'' ''range'', ''etc''.) ''merit'' ''or'' ''interest'', ''even'' ''when'' ''generously'' ''considered''; ''a'' ''somewhat'' '''offensive''' ''photo'' ''or'' ''a'' ''gross'' ''and'' ''inappropriate'' ''sentimentalization'' ''of'' ''feeling'' ''in'' ''the'' ''context'' ''of'' ''the'' ''challenge''; ''the'' ''pursuit'' ''of'' ''clich''é ''without'' ''room'' ''for'' ''even'' ''a'' ''latent'' ''interpretation'' (''irony'', ''allegory'', ''metaphor'' ''etc''.)

3 > ''a'' ''photo'' ''of'' ''mixed'' ''or'' ''questionable'' ''merit'', ''both'' ''artistically'' ''and'' ''technically''; ''a'' ''technically'' '''acceptable''' ''one'' ''without'' ''marked'' ''artistic'' ''or'' ''journalistic'' ''interest''; ''a'' ''sentimental'' ''or'' ''symptomatically'' '''commercialized''' ''image'' ''designed'' ''to'' '''sell''' ''a'' ''product'' ''or'' (''worse''! -''of'' ''a'' ''person'') ''of'' ''reasonable'' ''or'' ''considerable'' ''technical'' ''merit''; ''a'' ''potentially'' '''interesting''' ''or'' '''promising''' ''photo'' (''subject'' ''matter''/''perspective'') ''with'' '''severe''' ''technical'' ''flaws'' ''and''/''or'' ''without'' '''clear''' ''intent'' ''or'' ''direction''; ''a'' ''technically'' ''flawless'' ''image'' ''void'' ''of'' ''emotion'' ''and'' ''lacking'' ''sensory'' ''stimuli''

4 > ''a'' '''pretty''' ''photo'' ''reminiscent'' ''of'' ''many''; ''an'' ''otherwise'' ''captivating'' ''image'' ''with'' ''one'' ''or'' ''more'' ''clearly'' ''distracting'' ''elements'', ''either'' ''within'' ''the'' ''capture'' ''itself'' ''or'' ''via'' ''border'' ''and''/''or'' ''title''; ''a'' ''technically'' ''accomplished'' ''photo'' ''relying'' ''predominantly'' ''on'' ''an'' ''idea'', ''subject'' ''and''/''or'' ''title'' ''for'' ''impact''; ''an'' ''artistically'' '''promising''' ''capture'' ''with'' ''clearly'' ''noticeable'' ''technical'' ''defects'', ''compositional'' ''issues'' ''or'' ''incongruous'' ''aesthetics''; ''a'' ''technically'' '''stunning''' ''capture'' ''otherwise'' ''bare'' ''of'' '''feeling''' ''or'' ''aesthetic'' '''sense'''

5 > ''a'' '''good''' ''photo'' ''by'' ''most'' ''standards''; ''one'' ''that'' ''communicates'' ''capably'' ''without'' ''necessarily'' ''teaching'' ''or'' ''exhilarating'' ''us''; ''an'' ''artistically'' ''interesting'' ''photo'' ''pointing'' ''an'' ''unusual'' ''view'', ''perspective'' ''or'' ''matter'', ''even'' ''if'' ''it'' ''suffers'' ''from'' ''distinct'' ''technical'' '''flaws'''; ''a'' ''technically'' '''stunning''' ''capture'' ''with'' ''limiting'' ''human'' ''or'' ''artistic'' '''range'''

6 > ''a'' ''remarkable'' ''image'', ''well'' ''executed'' ''by'' ''most'' ''standards'' ''while'' ''allowing'' ''for'' ''some'' ''technical'' ''shortcomings'' ''not'' ''easily'' ''prevented'' ''or'' ''corrected''; ''an'' ''ordinary'' ''or'' ''simple'' ''shot'', ''perfectly'' ''timed'' ''or'' '''found''' ''that'' ''tells'' ''an'' ''old'' ''story'' ''in'' ''a'' ''new'' ''way''; ''a'' ''very'' ''personal'' ''take'', ''a'' '''fresh''' ''controversy'' ''with'' ''commotive'' ''qualities'', ''but'' ''aesthetically'' '''exciting'''; ''an'' ''image'' ''imitative'' ''within'' ''a'' '''classic''' ''fashion'', ''but'' ''well'' ''executed'' (''i''.''e''. ''landscape''/''portrait'' ''etc''.)

7 > ''an'' ''outstanding'' ''photograph'' ''fit'' ''for'' ''both'' ''study'' ''and'' ''pleasure'', ''while'' ''allowing'' ''for'' ''minor'' ''technical'' ''shortcomings'', ''an'' ''accomplished'' ''imitation'' ''of'' ''a'' ''mode'' ''of'' ''seeing'' ''or'' ''rendering'' ''drawn'' ''or'' ''alluding'' ''to'' ''another'' ''medium'' ''including'' ''enduring'' ''snapshots'' ''or'' ''candids'' ''of'' ''remarkable'' ''human'' ''interest''

8 > ''same'' ''as'' ''7'', ''but'' ''one'' ''that'' ''stimulates'' ''awareness'' ''and'' ''taxes'' ''the'' ''senses'', ''technically'' ''accomplished'', ''with'' ''near''-''imperceptible'' ''flaws'', ''if'' ''not'' ''entirely'' ''flawless''; ''clearly'' '''innovative''' ''photographs'' ''pointing'' ''a'' ''little'' ''known'' ''interest'', ''direction'' ''or'' ''delight''

9 > ''same'' ''as'' ''8'', ''technically'' ''without'' ''a'' ''fault'', ''but'' ''a'' ''photo'' ''which'' ''commotes'' '''perceived''' ''reality'' ''to'' ''the'' ''point'' ''of'' ''restlessness'' ''and'' ''action''

10 > ''an'' ''enduring'' ''photo'' ''that'' ''challenges'' ''the'' ''order'' ''of'' ''gods'' ''and'' ''the'' ''world'', ''one'' ''holding'' ''its'' ''own'' ''alongside'' ''any'' ''other''.

''On'' (''Challenge'') ''Topicality

''Limiting'' ''potentially'' ''immeasurable'' ''choices'' ''to'' ''a'' ''defined'' ''subject'' ''or'' ''a'' ''chosen'' ''category'' ''of'' ''photography'', ''really'', ''should'' ''stimulate'' ''creativity'', ''not'' ''hamper'' ''it''. ''Topics'', ''IMO'', ''are'' ''or'' ''should'' ''be'' ''there'' ''for'' ''the'' ''benefit'' ''of'' ''the'' ''photographer'', ''not'' ''for'' ''the'' ''untaxed'' ''glee'' ''of'' ''some'' ''voters'' ''swinging'' ''a'' ''bat''.

''I'' ''do'' ''not ''penalize'' ''entries'' ''for'' ''failing'' ''to'' ''meet'' ''the'' ''challenge. ''I'' ''may'' ''award'' ''a'' ''higher ''score'' ''to'' ''a'' ''unique'' ''interpretation'' ''or'' ''to'' ''a'' ''finesse ''I'' ''recognize'', ''but'' ''I'' ''cannot'', ''in'' ''good'' ''conscience'', ''penalize'' ''something'' ''or'' ''someone'' ''for'' ''a'' ''fault'' ''that'' ''may'' ''lie'' ''within'' ''me'' ''and'' ''not'' ''with'' ''a'' ''picture''.

''I'' ''have'' ''seen'' ''and'' ''continue'' ''to'' ''see'' ''perfectly'' ''good'' ''photographs'' ''here'' ''penalized'' ''for'' ''exceeding ''the'' ''appreciative'' ''capacity'' ''of'' ''voters'' ''to'' ''recognize'' ''an'' ''entry'' ''for'' ''the'' ''poignant'' ''topicality'' ''it'' ''may'' ''demonstrate''. ''If'' ''I'' ''consider'' ''the'' ''photo'' ''remarkable'' (''artistically'' ''arresting''), ''I'' ''may'' ''just'' ''decide'' ''to'' ''award'' ''the'' ''highest'' ''mark'' ''possible'' ''in'' ''the'' ''faint'' ''hope'' ''to'' ''compensate'' ''for'' ''a'' ''predictably'' ''overall'' ''devaluation''.
 02/21/2008 02:37:25 PM · #11
''Thanks'' ''for'' ''the'' (''re'')''post'', ''zueszen''. ''Nicely'' ''put''. ''It'' ''might'' ''be'' ''nice'' ''to'' ''for'' ''the'' ''powers'' ''that'' ''be'' ''make'' ''your'' ''comments'' ''more'' ''readily'' ''available''.
''best'',
''pmk''
 02/22/2008 10:20:39 AM · #12
''Originally'' ''posted'' ''by'' ''zeuszen'':

''I'' ''do'' ''not ''penalize'' ''entries'' ''for'' ''failing'' ''to'' ''meet'' ''the'' ''challenge. ''I'' ''may'' ''award'' ''a'' ''higher ''score'' ''to'' ''a'' ''unique'' ''interpretation'' ''or'' ''to'' ''a'' ''finesse ''I'' ''recognize'', ''but'' ''I'' ''cannot'', ''in'' ''good'' ''conscience'', ''penalize'' ''something'' ''or'' ''someone'' ''for'' ''a'' ''fault'' ''that'' ''may'' ''lie'' ''within'' ''me'' ''and'' ''not'' ''with'' ''a'' ''picture''.


''I'' ''have'' ''to'' ''say'' ''I'' ''am'' ''in'' ''a'' ''little'' ''confusion'', ''the'' ''official'' ''Voting'' ''Guidelines'' ''state'' "''consider'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''topic'' ''when'' ''voting'', ''and'' ''adjust'' ''your'' ''score'' ''accordingly''." ''in'' ''one'' ''part'' ''but'' ''then'' ''says'' "''You'' ''may'' ''not'': ''give'' ''an'' ''entry'' ''a'' ''lower'' ''score'' ''because'' ''you'' ''believe'' ''it'' ''violates'' ''the'' ''Challenge'' ''Rules''."

''Lets'' ''say'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''is'' "''Squares''" ''and'' ''someone'' ''submits'' ''a'' ''photo'' ''of'' ''a'' ''Circle'', ''I'' ''personally'' ''would'' ''rate'' ''the'' ''photograph'' ''by'' ''itself'' ''and'' ''then'' ''knock'' ''a'' ''point'' ''or'' ''two'' ''off'' ''for'' ''not'' ''meeting'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''but'' ''I'' ''don'''''t'' ''know'' ''if'' ''that'' ''is'' ''the'' ''right'' ''thing'' ''to'' ''be'' ''doing'' ''or'' ''not''. ''If'' ''you'' ''ignored'' ''the'' ''fact'' ''that'' ''the'' ''photo'' ''doesn'''''t'' ''meet'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''then'' ''it'' ''becomes'' ''a'' ''little'' ''pointless'' ''having'' ''a'' ''challenge'' ''in'' ''the'' ''first'' ''place'' ''doesn'''''t'' ''it''? ''I'' ''am'' ''open'' ''to'' ''different'' ''interpretations'' ''but'' ''in'' ''this'' ''case'' ''a'' ''circle'' ''is'' ''nothing'' ''like'' ''a'' ''square''.

''I'' ''guess'' ''to'' ''a'' ''certain'' ''degree'' ''as'' ''long'' ''as'' ''my'' ''voting'' ''is'' ''consistent'' ''throughout'' ''the'' ''pictures'' ''then'' ''it'' ''doesn'''''t'' ''really'' ''matter'' ''too'' ''much'' (''I'' ''make'' ''sure'' ''I'' ''vote'' ''on'' ''all'' ''entries'')
 02/22/2008 10:38:18 AM · #13
''one'' - ''bad''
''ten'' - ''good''

''up'' ''to'' ''you'' ''beyond'' ''that''.
 02/22/2008 11:11:12 AM · #14
''Originally'' ''posted'' ''by'' ''bobonacus'':
...''Lets'' ''say'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''is'' "''Squares''" ''and'' ''someone'' ''submits'' ''a'' ''photo'' ''of'' ''a'' ''Circle''...''I'' ''am'' ''open'' ''to'' ''different'' ''interpretations'' ''but'' ''in'' ''this'' ''case'' ''a'' ''circle'' ''is'' ''nothing'' ''like'' ''a'' ''square''...


''I'''''m'' ''not'' ''so'' ''sure''. ''Is'' ''there'' ''an'' ''irony'' ''or'' ''a'' ''cultural'' ''context'' ''I'' ''may'' ''have'' ''missed'' ''or'' ''simply'' ''not'' ''know'' ''of''? ''Is'' ''it'' ''some'' ''hyperbolic'' ''jest''? ''Have'' ''I'' ''considered'' ''the'' ''title'', ''the'' ''whole ''of'' ''the'' ''presentation'' ''or'' ''did'' ''I'' ''just'' ''see'' ''a'' ''subject, ''etc''?

''However'' ''you'' ''vote'', ''as'' ''Gordon'' ''said'', ''is'' ''up'' ''to'' ''you''. ''I'' ''view'' ''the'' ''purpose'' ''of'' ''topical'' ''challenges'' ''as'' ''a'' ''means'' ''to'' ''challenge'' ''a'' ''photographer'''''s'' ''creativity''. ''I'', ''for'' ''my'' ''part'', ''cannot'', ''in'' ''good'' ''conscience'', ''penalize'' ''something'' ''or'' ''someone'' ''for'' ''a'' ''fault'' ''that'' ''may'' ''lie'' ''within'' ''me'' ''and'' ''not'' ''with'' ''a'' ''picture''.

''Message'' ''edited'' ''by'' ''author'' ''2008''-''02''-''22'' ''11'':''37'':''01''.
 02/22/2008 11:16:59 AM · #15
''Originally'' ''posted'' ''by'' ''bobonacus'':
''I'' ''am'' ''open'' ''to'' ''different'' ''interpretations'' ''but'' ''in'' ''this'' ''case'' ''a'' ''circle'' ''is'' ''nothing'' ''like'' ''a'' ''square''.


''It'''''s'' ''one'' ''of'' ''those'' '''it'' ''depends''' ''things''. ''Topologically'' ''a'' ''circle'' ''and'' ''a'' ''square'' ''are'' ''identical'', ''so'' ''there'' ''could'' ''be'' ''contexts'' ''where'' ''a'' ''circle'' ''could'' ''well'' ''be'' ''meaningfully'' ''entered'' ''into'' ''a'' ''challenge'' ''that'' ''called'' ''for'' ''squares''.

''Some'' ''town'' ''squares'' ''are'' ''circular'' ''too''. ''Look'' ''at'' ''the'' ''town'' ''square'' ''in'' ''Siena'' ''in'' ''Italy'' ''for'' ''example'' (''Piazza'' ''del'' ''Campo'') ''Well'', ''not'' ''really'' ''perfectly'' ''round'', ''but'' ''certainly'' ''a'' ''square'' ''that'' ''isn'''''t'' ''square'' ''and'' ''more'' ''of'' ''a'' ''circle''.

''Absolutes'' ''are'' ''difficult''.

''Message'' ''edited'' ''by'' ''author'' ''2008''-''02''-''22'' ''11'':''32'':''53''.
 02/22/2008 11:24:04 AM · #16
''Originally'' ''posted'' ''by'' ''zeuszen'':
''Originally'' ''posted'' ''by'' ''bobonacus'':
...''Lets'' ''say'' ''the'' ''challenge'' ''is'' "''Squares''" ''and'' ''someone'' ''submits'' ''a'' ''photo'' ''of'' ''a'' ''Circle''...''I'' ''am'' ''open'' ''to'' ''different'' ''interpretations'' ''but'' ''in'' ''this'' ''case'' ''a'' ''circle'' ''is'' ''nothing'' ''like'' ''a'' ''square''...


''I'''''m'' ''not'' ''so'' ''sure''. ''Is'' ''there'' ''an'' ''irony'' ''or'' ''a'' ''cultural'' ''context'' ''I'' ''may'' ''have'' ''missed'' ''or'' ''simply'' ''not'' ''know'' ''of''? ''Is'' ''it'' ''some'' ''hyperbolic'' ''jest''? ''Have'' ''I'' ''considered'' ''the'' ''title'', ''the'' ''whole ''of'' ''the'' ''presentation'' ''or'' ''did'' ''I'' ''just'' ''see'' ''a'' ''subject, ''etc''?

''However'' ''you'' ''vote'', ''as'' ''Gordon'' ''said'', ''is'' ''up'' ''to'' ''you''. ''I'' ''view'' ''the'' ''purpose'' ''of'' ''topical'' ''challenges'' ''a'' ''means'' ''to'' ''challenge'' ''a'' ''photographer'''''s'' ''creativity''. ''I'', ''for'' ''my'' ''part'', ''I'' ''cannot'', ''in'' ''good'' ''conscience'', ''penalize'' ''something'' ''or'' ''someone'' ''for'' ''a'' ''fault'' ''that'' ''may'' ''lie'' ''within'' ''me'' ''and'' ''not'' ''with'' ''a'' ''picture''.


''There'' ''is'' ''always'' ''someone'', ''in'' ''every'' ''challenge'' ''you'' ''enter'', ''who'' ''will'' ''not'' "''get''" ''your'' ''connection'' ''to'' ''the'' ''challenge'' (''DNMC''). ''No'' ''matter'' '''how' ''obvious'' ''you'' ''make'' ''the'' ''connection'', ''or'' ''you'' ''think ''you'''''ve'' ''made'' ''the'' ''connection''. ''I'' ''have'' ''my'' ''own'' ''terms'' ''for'' ''those'' ''people''. ''I'' ''call'' ''them'' ''literalists''. ''I'' ''don'''''t'' ''know'' ''if'' ''that'''''s'' ''a'' ''real'' ''word'' ''because'' ''I'''''m'' ''too'' ''lazy'' ''to'' ''look'' ''it'' ''up''. ''Then'' ''there'' ''are'' ''people'' ''who'' "''find''" ''a'' ''connection'' ''to'' ''the'' ''challenge'', ''even'' ''if'' ''it'' ''isn'''''t'' ''there''. ''I'' ''call'' ''those'' ''people'' ''interpreters''. ''I'' ''personally'' ''consider'' ''myself'' ''somewhere'' ''in'' ''between'' ''but'' ''tend'' ''to'' ''lean'' ''more'' ''towards'' ''the'' ''interpreter''. ''And'' ''I'' ''vote'' ''appropriately'' ''within'' ''my'' ''category''. ;''P''
 02/22/2008 11:35:39 AM · #17
''Originally'' ''posted'' ''by'' ''Gordon'':
''one'' - ''bad''
''ten'' - ''good''

''up'' ''to'' ''you'' ''beyond'' ''that''.


''Concise'' ''and'' ''accurate''! ''The'' ''most'' ''important'' ''thing'' ''about'' ''voting'' ''or'' ''commenting'' ''is'' ''to'' ''not'' ''worry'' ''about'' ''it''. ''Worrying'' ''about'' ''it'' ''is'' ''the'' ''worst'' ''thing'' ''you'' ''can'' ''do''. ''Just'' ''go'' ''with'' ''the'' ''flow'' ''and'' ''don'''''t'' ''worry'' ''about'' ''rules'' ''or'' ''standards'' ''or'' ''what'' ''have'' ''you'', ''just'' ''be'' ''honest'' ''and'' ''refrain'' ''from'' ''having'' ''any'' ''hidden'' ''agendas'' ''and'' ''everything'''''s'' ''groovy''.
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