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02/19/2008 01:47:47 PM · #1 |
HELP!!!
can anyone help me out... I'm working on my busuness pan and am looking for maket information for the photography sector in Canada (specifically Alberta), and I'm totally lost wading through all the information on the net (and non of it seeming helpful).
can anyone point me in the right direction for this kind of information?
thanks guys! |
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02/19/2008 02:08:41 PM · #2 |
| awe... I'm sure there's a budding econamist somewher in our midst.... or a smarty pants business person... or anyone??? |
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02/19/2008 02:16:29 PM · #3 |
Have you done a search for Alberta photographers on google and got in contact with them? The only person I can think of is Joey Lawrence, since he's Canadian, but I have absolutely no idea about his business plan or if he even submitted one.
It's worth a try...
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02/19/2008 02:18:08 PM · #4 |
| I've been googling all morning... I think the O's are eye's starting at me and mocking me... "good luck finding anything" they say... |
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02/19/2008 02:19:51 PM · #5 |
| May I ask why you are writing a business plan? Is it to get grant money, or something similar? Or is it only to give yourself some direction? |
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02/19/2008 03:01:43 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by Eyesup:
HELP!!!
can anyone help me out... I'm working on my busuness pan and am looking for maket information |
Wish I could help you with this, but I wouldn't know where to start.
However, if you were working on a business Plan and looking for Marketing information I can give you a step in the right direction.
First thing you need to do is finish reading this post.
Second thing you need to do is turn off the computer and go outside.
Third and final thing you need to do, is collect first hand research from the photography businesses in your area.
Granted you can find a lot of information on the internet, however, the best is what you do yourself.
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02/19/2008 03:03:12 PM · #7 |
Have you tried contacting the local Business Association? Chamber of Commerce?
Message edited by author 2008-02-19 15:11:39. |
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02/19/2008 03:13:44 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Louis:
May I ask why you are writing a business plan? Is it to get grant money, or something similar? Or is it only to give yourself some direction? |
both... direction definatly... but we also do have a goal to have a proper studio and showroom within 9months... we may need financing to accomplish this (renting and leasing in calgary is expensive). |
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02/19/2008 03:16:50 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Have you tried contacting the local Business Association? Chamber of Commerce? |
no I hadn't thought about that... |
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02/19/2008 03:17:25 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
Originally posted by Eyesup:
HELP!!!
can anyone help me out... I'm working on my busuness pan and am looking for maket information |
Wish I could help you with this, but I wouldn't know where to start.
However, if you were working on a business Plan and looking for Marketing information I can give you a step in the right direction.
First thing you need to do is finish reading this post.
Second thing you need to do is turn off the computer and go outside.
Third and final thing you need to do, is collect first hand research from the photography businesses in your area.
Granted you can find a lot of information on the internet, however, the best is what you do yourself. |
I wonder though how many would be forthcoming about that kind of info??? |
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02/19/2008 03:19:44 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Eyesup:
Originally posted by Louis:
May I ask why you are writing a business plan? Is it to get grant money, or something similar? Or is it only to give yourself some direction? |
both... direction definatly... but we also do have a goal to have a proper studio and showroom within 9months... we may need financing to accomplish this (renting and leasing in calgary is expensive). |
I ask because unless you specifically need it for financing purposes, avoid doing it, or do only the financials and some cursory market analysis in your area. It can be a huge headache for a small business, and it's not an absolute requirement. I spent weeks on my first business plan, wound up showing it to a couple of banks, then tossed it when I self-financed. It has never been seen or heard from again. :)
Note that this advice is not for everyone, and you have to have pretty good organizational skills to keep on top of your financials if you go it alone. But for us, the plan was a huge headache. |
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02/19/2008 03:19:54 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by Eyesup:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Have you tried contacting the local Business Association? Chamber of Commerce? |
no I hadn't thought about that... |
There might even be a small business group that could provide help or at least point you in the right direction. Also, you may want to try and find a seminar or workshop on writing business plans. Local colleges and school boards may offer this type of thing. |
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02/19/2008 03:43:42 PM · #13 |
| is it bad that I'm going through information overload already?... I never emagined that this would be easy, but there is way too much information out there.. it's hard to make heads or tails of it all |
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02/19/2008 03:49:18 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Eyesup:
I wonder though how many would be forthcoming about that kind of info??? |
You never know until you try. I have experienced both sides of the spectrum on that account. On person was such a prick, I was doing the research for school, and he still wouldn't give me the time of day. Always makes me wonder how he gets clients if he isn't even willing to tell what he offers and how much.
Some are great people to talk to and tell ya anything you want to know, even offer tips/pointers.
Bottom line is, you gotta get out there and try. Obviously you won't get any less information then you are now.
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02/19/2008 03:56:49 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by littlegett:
Originally posted by Eyesup:
I wonder though how many would be forthcoming about that kind of info??? |
You never know until you try. I have experienced both sides of the spectrum on that account. On person was such a prick, I was doing the research for school, and he still wouldn't give me the time of day. Always makes me wonder how he gets clients if he isn't even willing to tell what he offers and how much.
Some are great people to talk to and tell ya anything you want to know, even offer tips/pointers.
Bottom line is, you gotta get out there and try. Obviously you won't get any less information then you are now. |
point taken |
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02/19/2008 04:30:48 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Eyesup:
is it bad that I'm going through information overload already?... I never emagined that this would be easy, but there is way too much information out there.. it's hard to make heads or tails of it all |
Personally, I think you're doing the right thing. A thorough business plan will force you to take a good look at your market, your expenses, and help you to make appropriate decisions (even if the decision is to not go ahead).
As far as asking potential competitors for information, I have no idea how forthcoming they'll be. Oftentimes, people are very willing to talk about their businesses, though, so it's worth a try. Remember, you are asking them questions about their favorite subject... |
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02/19/2008 04:37:50 PM · #17 |
| I really recommend you to go to a few photo marketing workshops, depending on what kind of photo business you want to get into |
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02/19/2008 05:27:10 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Joey Lawrence:
I really recommend you to go to a few photo marketing workshops, depending on what kind of photo business you want to get into |
Photography workshops I can find... marketing workshops, I'm sure I can do too... Photography marketing workshops, I'm never seens anywhere.. not in my area anyway... any pointers on wher to look for such a workshop?
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02/19/2008 05:56:23 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Eyesup:
Originally posted by Joey Lawrence:
I really recommend you to go to a few photo marketing workshops, depending on what kind of photo business you want to get into |
Photography workshops I can find... marketing workshops, I'm sure I can do too... Photography marketing workshops, I'm never seens anywhere.. not in my area anyway... any pointers on wher to look for such a workshop? |
PPA is the host of a lot. Getting to a few conventions and workshops is really the best thing you can do if you are serious about your business, don't even bother with any other kind of course like college or university. There probably won't be one in your area at a strategic time so my advice would just be to fly somewhere in order to take the course. Conventions are good too because there are multiple speakers. Check out WPPI this March in Vegas |
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02/19/2008 05:58:13 PM · #20 |
 Joey Lawrence, is that really you?
Good Lord, you are alive :P
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02/19/2008 07:39:17 PM · #21 |
Join PPA and get all the info they have!
From what I know...this comes from a couple of years of local PPA membership, seminar attendance and asking lots of questions.
(US numbers here)
The average mom and pop portrait studio does about $200,000 a year in sales. They have Pop photog full time, mom photog usually full time most of hte year, and during the busy season they'll have a couple of more part timers.
Pop photog makes $40,000 a year after all the expenses EXCLUDING the mortgage. That is a problem IMO...but this comes from looking at 6 studios for sale in the US - PA, MD, KS, FLA, and two other states I forget where.
From the big name speakers on tour that run million dollar plus studios (sales wise):
Advertsing is 15 to 20% of your sales. Well, of what you WANT your sales to be. Advertising is the gas pedal that makes the business go - want to go faster? Pour on more gas! Remember, samples are considered advertising.
Cost of Goods Sold, according to some magazine surveys and PPA info is about 20% of sales also. This will vary based on who does your color correction. I do my own and use a cheap lab so my numbers are more like 13%. I pay $1/unit. That can get up to $3/unit if you let the lab do all the work - so that's TRIPLING your costs!
Market research- while you may feel you can shoot $20,000 weddings and average $2400 per HS senior (real numbers for some photographers) unless you have a proven ability to do so, use the numbers that are more representative of your area. For weddings it's easy - 150 to 250 is the range for weddings sizes. So call around to the reception sites and ask how much per plate is a reception. Bride magazine and others say this number should be about 50% of the wedding budget. Photography and videography should be 10% of the wedding budget. that will give you a range for you area.
If you are good as HS seniors, $800 to $1000 average works, $400 to $600 is a more normal average. The stellar high end folks on tour do $1800-2400/ senior, but it's not likely you can start at that level.
Sports leagues - $19/head average and the buy rate varies by age- younger kids' parents buy more than the older ones. So t-ball age might have a 80% buy rate, the pony leaguers 40%.
So, you have 2 of you? Figure in full time pay for each of you. Local average or what you are making now (whatever is greater). If you figure in $5/hour or part time work banks will be leary of loaning money as you're much less likely to succeed.
Gear - here in the US you can depreciate it over 3 years - so figure a payment of 3 years, and budget in repairs and replacements, and allow for growth - Adobe updates their CS stuff often enough you need to budget for it. An editing station (computer, 2 LCDs, tablet, desk, chair, vista, CS3 and misc software) can run from $2500 to $5500 (or more...twin 30" Cinemas is overkill, but hey, do what you can afford!).
Remember to figure in production space (table, etc) for cutting prints, framing, packaging, album assembly, etc. It adds up - a quality rotary print cutter can run $300, framing tools $300 more. Take all the pictures you want - the money, the PROFIT, is in the hard goods (album, prints, frames, etc)
So....
2 people at $40,000 a year each. $6600/month
Rent and utilities at $2500/month
Office furniture for the office, lights, plants, display devices, etc) of $20,000? Divide by 60 (5 years) $330/month
Studio lights, props...sky is the limit here of course, but lets go cheap, you can be creative! $5000 ( 36 months) - 140/month
Camera gear...3 sets of bodies, lights, bags, lenses (2 sets)...$35,000. Could be a lot more, less is really being cheap. I've got $20,000 and I'm one shooter whose travel gear an studio gear are the same thing, and I've not got any 1D bodies or long sports lenses. $1000 a month
Computers, phones, printers (office, not for photos) - 2 editing stations, one office computer, a laptop, the network, backup system, muliti line multi extention phones with voicemail, a couple of office printers...$15,000? Some of this you'll farm out (like the phones) and have to wire the space as well. 4 years (3 or 5? split the difference) $300/month
You also need insurance for the biz. Hire help and you'll need more insurance (workers comp, sexual harrassment, discrimination, etc) $600/year
A sign for the storefront...$5000. $100/month for 4 years will pay for it.
Samples...your work framed on the walls. Frame corners,etc.
Gonna do projection proofing (the ONLY way to do it)- you can use a plasma or projector, but need a nice room. Some do it like a living room and others over a board table. $3000 is the low end for this, 10,000 the high end. And you'll want a fridge and coffee pot for offering your guests a beverage...$6000 over 5 years, $100/month.
And there are LOTS of miscellaneous expenses...the coke and coffee for the clients, napkins, cleaning supplies, office paper - a LOT of them. I spent $3200 at staples last year, and I don't buy all my office supplies there.
So add up the monthly expenses and you've got to bring in $11,000 just to cover the debt and you paychecks.
That's $132,000 a year.
Now you'll need to do $200,000 a year in sales to net that.
20% is advertising ($38,000) and 20% are print/materials costs ($38,000) - that's $76,000 + $132,000.
How to generate $200,000 in sales? Hmm...Lets assume a $800 senior average and $2500 wedding average. How much can you shoot? Figure two full time shooters - one does the weddings (35 is possible) and one shooter can do 5 or 6 seniors on a saturday - a lot more income that a wedding can generate. The senior shooter can also pick up a few other weddings, say 5 in the off season. That's 40 weddings at $2500 per, or $100,000. So you'll need 125 senior sessions also. You'll get other business - families, reunions, babies, pets, etc. Getting a school or sports league is where you start to be profitable - but then you'll almost have to hire help.
With 2000 hours in a year per person, your cost per hour is $50. You cant be 100% efficient (drive time, book keeping, phone consults, computer malfunctions, cleaning the studio, etc all eat into that 4000 hours), figure on charging $100/hour for every hour you shoot at the minimum.
Now the fun part is you won't start out that busy. It may take 4 years to get up to that level of business. Month #1 will still cost $11,000 even if you bring in no sales (assuming you really do pay yourselves full salary). Having a year of expenses in the bank before you open the doors is a really good idea, excluding your paychecks IF you can live without them (wife supports you til you get the business on it's feet for example)
See, that's not so hard, is it?
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02/19/2008 08:49:55 PM · #22 |
Yikes!!! as always you've hit the nail on the head... and now my head hurts... Thanks for the numbers. they really help put a perspective on this whole thing... as is evedent I've stil got a long way to go and a lot of work to do, but I'm getting there. last year with 8 weddings + portraits and 3 christmas parties we made $12,000 but we spent $16,700 on stuff... new camera's, new lights, new lenses, etc.... on the plus side we now have a whole lot of that stuff... we can likely start a studio space out with what we have... I've done school band photos and used it as an analogue for full school photo's (110 students that day) and proved we can do it... and we're hoping to get a private school or two to really get into that...
right now we're spending most of our effort on organizing and getting ready (saving, amassing equipment, etc) so that when we do get a space we're not starting from scatch... my hope (and you can correct me if I'm out to lunch) is that the more we do now in regards to having equipment, and cleints the easier it will be to move to a new space and make the transition from part-time to full.
Got full business insurance
getting 2 new computers this year (switching to mac)
have a full set of Alien Bees, and can get something similar to start with for maximum portability and versatility...
will likely need a new camera or two to round out the set (plus an extra)
now I guess I need the clients... and that's marketing.. which we've not been great on.
am I missing anything? |
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02/19/2008 09:05:33 PM · #23 |
| That's brilliant Chris, very imformative! |
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02/19/2008 09:12:55 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Join PPA and get all the info they have!
From what I know...this comes from a couple of years of local PPA membership, seminar attendance and asking lots of questions. |
Very informative.
..also a good reminder why photography is a better hobby than profession. It just aint worth the time.
bazz. |
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02/19/2008 09:52:05 PM · #25 |
| If it was just a matter of time=worth there's lots of things we would never do... and there are lots of jobs worse... but rather waste my time doing something I love than something I don't |
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