Panning - whew! my head is spinning.

02/20/2008 02:37:29 PM · #76

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by HeiSch:
So this means that the camera has to move during panning?
I saw some pics where the camera and the subject were in a "fixed" relation. THe background "moved" and got blurred. The spinning thing on playgrounds.
Now technically and with a narrow interpretaion, this would NOT be panning?

I'd define that as panning too. Panning happens when the camera moves, relative the earth. Seems like a reasonable definition that fits all the cases. If the camera is moved by the photographer, or the photographer and camera is moved, it seems to the same thing. In the case you describe, the camera is moved, while the playground wheel rotates.

In the same vein, I think this is a form of panning too:

Nah. That's called background blurring. :-)

02/20/2008 02:40:16 PM · #77

Originally posted by citymars:

Originally posted by DrAchoo:
I think the challenge description was simply "panning" because of the play on words in the challenges. (Bread-pan)

Ah. Cute. And then if you end up with the brown ribbon, your photo has truly been panned.*
*(apologies if this pun has already been used).

I missed by one spot :(

I got a few 'this isn't panning' comments, which was quite amusing.

02/20/2008 02:40:17 PM · #78

Gordon - As long as you're thumbing thru the prior posts in here, you may as well save yourself some time and get to this one as it summarizes my thoughts on panning in photography (and skips all of the back & forth that took place).

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by marttila:
... The references to motion in those articles don't specify that the photographer must keep his/her feet on the Earth to pivot on an axis.

LOL :-D No, I guess technically they don't.

Tips about continuing to move the camera with the subject after pressing the shutter (follow thru) does sound like the photographer is maintaining control over the camera and it's movement. Mentioning how moving vehicles are easier to track and stay with than something that moves more erratically, etc...

One would be hard pressed to read the articles and come away with the impression that the camera and the subject are to be fixed together and then moved (spun, etc...). And personally, I don't believe that is within the general spirit of panning photography nor the spirit as addressed at DPC currently.

All JMO of course. :-)

02/20/2008 02:40:53 PM · #79

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by gordon:

In the same vein, I think this is a form of panning too:

Nah. That's called background blurring. :-)

Why - I moved and I also moved the camera to follow me. What's not panning about that ? The subject, me, was kept sharp, the background blurred out and I controlled and moved the camera throughout the shot. I'm not fixed in place. I'm not on anything spinning. The subject is in motion. The camera is being moved to follow the subject.

Exact same technique as used for this other panning shot

Anything else is just adding in extra constraints, based on how the technique is normally used, to give typical images, not actually something required to be considered that technique.

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 14:45:42.

02/20/2008 02:45:10 PM · #80

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by gordon:

In the same vein, I think this is a form of panning too:

Nah. That's called background blurring. :-)

Why - I moved and I also moved the camera to follow me. What's not panning about that ? The subject, me was kept sharp, the background blurred out.

You and the camera are one fixed object, yes? On a platform that is being spun, correct? Background blurring. :-)

02/20/2008 02:47:19 PM · #81

Originally posted by glad2badad:

You and the camera are one fixed object, yes?

Originally posted by glad2badad:

On a platform that is being spun, correct?

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Background blurring. :-)

no :-)

02/20/2008 02:48:31 PM · #82

Or consider this

vs the same shot if I took it a few seconds earlier or later. Is it only a panning shot if the guy on the bike is there ? Or is it a panning shot if I move the camera in the same motion and just capture the blurred background ?

I mean I know you'll tend to do better in a challenge like this by doing something very orthodox like the guy on the bike. And if that's what you want to do or where you are in your photography I think it is a great thing to do. But you can also spend too much time trying to close down and limit your creative options, thinking things 'must' be done the way everyone else does them - using dictionaries to define everything to the n'th degree. You'll get to recreate a lot of good ideas that way. Scores will probably be better too.

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 14:54:44.

02/20/2008 02:53:20 PM · #83

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

You and the camera are one fixed object, yes?

no
Originally posted by glad2badad:
On a platform that is being spun, correct?

no

Originally posted by glad2badad:
Background blurring. :-)

no :-)

??? Ok. You're holding the camera facing you with arms outstretched. You and the camera are moving together at the same time at the same pace - yes? :-)

I feel like I'm playing 20 questions with the kids! He-he.

02/20/2008 02:55:37 PM · #84

Originally posted by Gordon:

Or consider this vs the same shot if I took it a few seconds earlier or later. Is it only a panning shot if the guy on the bike is there ? Or is it a panning shot if I move the camera in the same motion and just capture the blurred background ?

If you're moving a camera to follow a subject then I consider it panning. More thoughts on this in the post made at 2:40 PM (6 posts back).

02/20/2008 02:56:48 PM · #85

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

You and the camera are one fixed object, yes?

no
Originally posted by glad2badad:
On a platform that is being spun, correct?

no

Originally posted by glad2badad:
Background blurring. :-)

no :-)

??? Ok. You're holding the camera facing you with arms outstretched. You and the camera are moving together at the same time at the same pace - yes? :-)

I feel like I'm playing 20 questions with the kids! He-he.

Originally posted by glad2badad:

If you're moving a camera to follow a subject then I consider it panning.

I'm just trying to explore the idea that viewing themes so narrowly hurts your potential to be creative within them, or stops you being open to new ways to use techniques you've already learned. It seems a shame.

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 15:03:00.

02/20/2008 02:58:01 PM · #86

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Gordon:
Or consider this vs the same shot if I took it a few seconds earlier or later. Is it only a panning shot if the guy on the bike is there ? Or is it a panning shot if I move the camera in the same motion and just capture the blurred background ?

If you're moving a camera to follow a subject then I consider it panning. More thoughts on this in the post made at 2:40 PM (6 posts back).

What if you deliberately move it in the opposite direction of the subject- to increase the blur relative to the background blur? Suddenly not panning ?

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 14:58:14.

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

02/20/2008 03:06:51 PM · #87

Originally posted by Gordon:

Last time I checked my hands and head aren't in a fixed relationship to each other. So the camera and I aren't fixed relative to each other. I'm moving my body and moving the camera to follow. The whole point of the typical definition of panning that you quoted several times is that you move the camera at the same pace as the subject, to keep it sharp and blur the background.

I'm just trying to explore the idea that viewing themes so narrowly hurts your potential to be creative within them, or opening you up to new ways to use techniques you've already learned. It seems a shame.

Ai-yi-yii! Ok. Word it how you want to.

Technically the end result is a panning look, and it looks very nice, and it's quite simple/easy to do the way you've done it. Nothing creative about it. That's why I was poking some fun at you about "background blurring". :-)

Try panning a runner at a track meet, a dog chasing a frisbee, or a motocross biker coming over a jump. Experiment with shutter speeds, etc... Those are challenging and creative ways to go about panning.

hihosilver

Nikon D200

02/20/2008 03:21:47 PM · #88

Hmmm...I guess I'm missing the point here (my entry was found not in the bread pan but rather in the bed pan!..heh!), but my serious question is...isn't panning somewhat a subset of "blur"...and then motion panning a subset under panning?

(e.g. BLUR...PANNING...MOTION PANNING)

The reason I have this question is that I have a tendency to break down my shots into sections...first I try to get the settings just for the blur...(blur vs. plain out of focus), and then once I have the shutterspeed settings for the blur, then I add the focus adjustments once I'm happy with the shutterspeed given the lighting. I have to approach these things the dummy way because I'm not talented to do it all at once.

It seems to be the creative part comes in combining the different elements including shutterspeeds with different focus types with different amounts of motion either from the lens or the person or the external object you are sitting/standing/whatever on.

It seems to me we are all making omellettes but with different ingredients which matches our tastes as photographers.

Well, that is my two cents...I'm sure you are napping now...;-)

02/20/2008 03:25:09 PM · #89

Originally posted by hihosilver:

... It seems to me we are all making omellettes but with different ingredients which matches our tastes as photographers. ...

Tastefully said! :-D

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

02/20/2008 03:32:48 PM · #90

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Try panning a runner at a track meet, a dog chasing a frisbee, or a motocross biker coming over a jump. Experiment with shutter speeds, etc... Those are challenging and creative ways to go about panning.

Yup I've done all of those too. Just as difficult or hard. Just as much requirement to get the correct shutter speed and camera control. Same techniques. Same with landscapes. Same without something moving in front of the camera.

So is it panning if I'm moving ? Or just my camera ? Which would this be ?

What if I'm rotating the camera while walking backwards ? Does it have to be parallel movement to the sensor ?

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 15:37:20.

hihosilver

Nikon D200

02/20/2008 03:49:22 PM · #91

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by hihosilver:
... It seems to me we are all making omellettes but with different ingredients which matches our tastes as photographers. ...

Tastefully said! :-D

I think we all need to see this photo for the 5th time in this thread...haha!

Gordon - In The Matrix

Fair warning, you will find that despite

Gordon's cherubic and somewhat innocent good looks, he is ruthlessly THOROUGH as a photographer.

I wish you luck in this debate...;-)

Message edited by author 2008-02-20 15:50:32.