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Showing posts 126 - 150 of 218, (reverse)
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 02/04/2008 09:57:57 AM · #126
As I said earlier in the thread, there is no denying that A&F uses sex to promote their merchandise (as do most other retailers).

(And I still don't understand how taking clothes off is good advertising for high quality clothes)

That said, my beef with A&F goes back a couple of years (5 maybe). It was Christmas time, and their pictures in the store (viewable by anyone walking in the mall) left *nothing* to the imagination. There were breasts showing, there were unzipped pants hanging low, it was OBVIOUS what they were "promoting." One of the girls didn't have anything but panties on. :/ FOR A CLOTHING STORE!!!!

For those of you that have asked for "the right wings (and other names)" to keep from forcing our opinions on you, why were we not afforded that same respect? The pictures did not have to be on the outside of the mall. THAT is all that I asked of A&F and the Asheville Mall at the time. No response. Period.

Around that same time, in their Christmas advertisement catalog or whatever it is called, they were running articles about how to have fun in the holidays. Group sex was just one of their "articles."

This publication was very short lived.

Had I not read the article, I would have contributed it urban legend or some other such.

for the skeptics among us

So, I did what someone suggested, and did not visit that mall for about four years.

When I ventured back in a few months ago, I noticed that they no longer had the huge pictures on the outside of the store. I can live with that. I may no like it, but I figure it is a compromise. They can put what they want on their walls. My view is not forced on them because they are being able to advertise as they see fit. Their view is not pushed on me because I can teach my kids about sexuality in the way that I deem best.

Message edited by author 2008-02-04 09:59:51.
 02/04/2008 10:49:03 AM · #127
Originally posted by ryand:
Originally posted by Louis:
It is not a "view", it is a fact. You would be wrong to call extra-marital sex "promiscuous" when two unmarried individuals of either the same or the opposite gender engage in it with one another exclusively.


I'm going to call you out here and this is the last thing I'm going to post in this thread, because no one is actually debating with me. This is absolutely ridiculous for you to claim your side as fact, yet I'm not allowed to even state my viewpoint....

In the context of the argument and how I perceived and presented it, there is nothing ridiculous in saying that the definition of "promiscuous" cannot include behaviour between two people who engage in sex with one another exclusively regardless of whether or not they're married. If you think all sex outside marriage without exception is promiscuous behaviour for everyone, you are simply wrong. Simple as that. If you think you're right, you are attempting to redefine the definition of "promiscuous" to suit your personal world view, and I won't let you get away with it, because you're using my language to try to change the way people think. And that's immoral.

As far as making fun goes, the practice of Jefferson's exhortation is perfectly valid in any context.
 02/04/2008 11:16:21 AM · #128
Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by shutterpuppy:
It's natural, normal and healthy. Get over it.


I disagree, first off I think it is supposed to be saved for marriage and I would hardly call all of the STD's floating around out there, normal or healthy.


You're saving your buttcrack for marriage? Your future wife is gonna be one lucky gal.

Message edited by author 2008-02-04 11:23:34.
 02/04/2008 11:23:06 AM · #129
Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
OMG, some buttcrack!! Call out that National Guard!!!! Circle the wagons!! Praise Jesus! Smite the Sinners!!

Oh wait, it's just the plumber...


Don't make fun of my God.


I'm making fun of those nutjobs who run around trying to shove their oppressive brand of morality down everyone's throat in your God's name. The same kind of people who make a little buttcrack or a portion of a breast into a crisis. Are you upset because you're one of them?
 02/04/2008 11:25:00 AM · #130
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
OMG, some buttcrack!! Call out that National Guard!!!! Circle the wagons!! Praise Jesus! Smite the Sinners!!

Oh wait, it's just the plumber...


Don't make fun of my God.


I'm making fun of those nutjobs who run around trying to shove their oppressive brand of morality down everyone's throat in your God's name. The same kind of people who make a little buttcrack or a portion of a breast into a crisis. Are you upset because you're one of them?


Yet, it is okay for A&F to shove their morality down the throat of my children.

Oh wait, if I don't like it, I don't have to look at it.



02/04/2008 11:38:37 AM · #131
Originally posted by karmat:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by ryand:

Originally posted by Spazmo99:
OMG, some buttcrack!! Call out that National Guard!!!! Circle the wagons!! Praise Jesus! Smite the Sinners!!

Oh wait, it's just the plumber...


Don't make fun of my God.


I'm making fun of those nutjobs who run around trying to shove their oppressive brand of morality down everyone's throat in your God's name. The same kind of people who make a little buttcrack or a portion of a breast into a crisis. Are you upset because you're one of them?


Yet, it is okay for A&F to shove their morality down the throat of my children.

Oh wait, if I don't like it, I don't have to look at it.



Maybe women should have to wear burquas? Men too? Actually seeing skin? Good Lord, no!

Do you tell your children to avert their eyes when you see some fat guy with plumber's butt? Do you also avoid the swimming pool/beach? All the exposed skin is bound to corrupt even the most pure.
02/04/2008 11:40:28 AM · #132
Originally posted by karmat:

Yet, it is okay for A&F to shove their morality down the throat of my children.

Oh wait, if I don't like it, I don't have to look at it.


That goes back to who regulates/looks out for your children's morality and exposure to that of others

You can, like Virginia Beach did, pass and enforce laws prohibiting this kind of advertising.

They're not trying to change your view, they're trying to sell you their type of image.....and failing.

Back to that choice thing again.

I don't know where this "Yet, it is okay for A&F to shove their morality down the throat of my children." comes from.

Don't go there if it offends you. It IS that simple. Or change laws.

02/04/2008 11:41:13 AM · #133
This is the world we live in. If it's not A&F it'll be someone else. You can't win because there's more consumers out there who like and respond to those images than those who are against them. Money wins over morals and ethics every single time unfortunately.

Oh, and if I was a horny 16 year old and I still hadn't experienced the beauty in pre-marital promiscuity I'd be fairly uptight about the whole subject too :)

N
 02/04/2008 11:43:34 AM · #134
Please, make sure you read what I said 7 or 8 posts up about the A&F in my local mall. Make sure you realize that that is my "beef" with them, and as of right now, it is "okay."

I can't speak for what happened in VB. Butt crack is one thing. BUT, my local A&F has historically broadcast much, much, much more into the halls of the malls -- where I can't avoid it, whether I want to "go there" or not.

I can avoid the mall, but I shouldn't have to. Spazmo was complaining about having religion crammed down his throat. Why do I not have the same "right" to not have stuff crammed down mine?
 02/04/2008 11:49:15 AM · #135
Originally posted by karmat:
I can avoid the mall, but I shouldn't have to. Spazmo was complaining about having religion crammed down his throat. Why do I not have the same "right" to not have stuff crammed down mine?


Of course you have that right. All I'm saying is it's probably easier and more effective to spend the energy educating kids about the differences in nude images (art, obscene/porn, sexy advertising etc) because it's going to keep happening. Kids seem so 'media smart' these days - but it's a jungle and imho it needs the parent to educate and guide the child through that jungle, rather than trying to cut it down.

N
 02/04/2008 11:58:38 AM · #136
all I can wonder is if the title of this thread is intentionally or unintentionally appropriate.
 02/04/2008 12:00:13 PM · #137
Originally posted by Gordon:
all I can wonder is if the title of this thread is intentionally or unintentionally appropriate.


LOL! Thread winner right here :)

N
 02/04/2008 12:11:07 PM · #138
Originally posted by karmat:
Spazmo was complaining about having religion crammed down his throat.


No, I wasn't.

I was complaining about religious groups trying to force their morality on others and justifying it by quoting from their religious book and proclaiming that they're, "Just doing God/Allah/Jehovah/Deity of the Day's work."

It's the same whether it's the Taliban forcing women to live under the burqua or the equally nutty Christian groups that try to legislate morality in the US.


02/04/2008 12:13:03 PM · #139
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

I'm making fun of those nutjobs who run around trying to shove their oppressive brand of morality down everyone's throat in your God's name. The same kind of people who make a little buttcrack or a portion of a breast into a crisis. Are you upset because you're one of them?


I was referring to this. Sorry if I read more into it than was meant.
 02/04/2008 12:13:34 PM · #140
FWIW, I'm no prude (don't prudish comments always start that way ?) and don't really mind Victoria Secret ads (they are after all selling sex/ lingerie) but A&F always seemed a bit odd. It is a fairly stuffy, mainstream college brand. Preppy and a bit staid. Much like GAP. So they are trying to shake that image and it usually looks like they just try too hard. 20 ft homoerotic images of young boys plastered all over the entrances to their stores. Semi naked teens. It just screams 'I'm trying not to look like a preppy and staid mainstream brand - look how different we are to the other shops in the mall, even though our clothes are all the same.

Reminds me of Benetton years ago. A&F have probably been trying to get this sort of reaction for a while. Seems like some are playing in to their marketing strategy, finally.

Message edited by author 2008-02-04 12:14:10.
 02/04/2008 12:16:07 PM · #141
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by karmat:
Spazmo was complaining about having religion crammed down his throat.


No, I wasn't.

I was complaining about religious groups trying to force their morality on others and justifying it by quoting from their religious book and proclaiming that they're, "Just doing God/Allah/Jehovah/Deity of the Day's work."

It's the same whether it's the Taliban forcing women to live under the burqua or the equally nutty Christian groups that try to legislate morality in the US.


Who says religion has the corner market on ideology cramming? I see just as many atheists and progressives trying to cram their ideology down my throat.

Religion has nothing to do with it, the town has a law, the store was given a warning, the did not comply, they got in trouble. If the voting populace want to make a law based on whatever the hell they want, that's their right under the U.S. consitution, their state constitutions, and their local charters. Get over it.
 02/04/2008 12:19:39 PM · #142
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Originally posted by karmat:
I can avoid the mall, but I shouldn't have to. Spazmo was complaining about having religion crammed down his throat. Why do I not have the same "right" to not have stuff crammed down mine?


Of course you have that right. All I'm saying is it's probably easier and more effective to spend the energy educating kids about the differences in nude images (art, obscene/porn, sexy advertising etc) because it's going to keep happening. Kids seem so 'media smart' these days - but it's a jungle and imho it needs the parent to educate and guide the child through that jungle, rather than trying to cut it down.

N


Speaking as a religious nut job (with a Ba.The) North America (and the western world in general) have become way too sexually repressed! and I blame religion for it. hundreds of years ago the "Church" (and I use the term loosly in this case) told us that all sexuality is bad. it causes us to sin (in some abscure way) so it must be avoided at all cost, and we have yet to crawl out from under that rock. For those who oppose to the add as morally wrong and against Christina Ethics etc. etc. blah blah blah. Get over yourselves! God made the human body and madi it beautifully. and frankly as long as the adds arent promoting fornication (or similar) there is nothing wronge with displaying the human form.

For the record this religios nut job thinks the photo's themselves are artistic an appealing. made to show off the clothing and they do that!

you know, in most other countries in the world this wouldn't be an issue at all. and it's not because those other countries are less moral.
 02/04/2008 12:20:17 PM · #143
Again I ask... were the images inside or out? If they are in the store, then people who object should just stay out.

02/04/2008 12:20:51 PM · #144
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

It's the same whether it's the Taliban forcing women to live under the burqua or the equally nutty Christian groups that try to legislate morality in the US.


The the global warming freaks, or the progressivism freaks, or the anti-capitalists, the socialists and communists. Damn all those people for trying to tell others what to do with their lives.
 02/04/2008 12:20:54 PM · #145
Having lived in France and Italy I can safely say that A&F is very very tame stuff. I see nothing wrong with celebrating the human form and accepting that we live in a world where sex sells.

In terms of Children, the only reason that kids are going to be shocked by this kind of thing is that parents instil the fear in them due to their own traditional upbringing. People in Paris have no problem walking with their kids down a street that has a 10 foot poster of a woman with no top on because the parents see it as beauty, not scandal. And what does this lead to - Parisians dressing in next to nothing and buying thongs for their 9 year old daughters? No! They're conservative and responsible dressers.

Now on the other hand the UK (where I am from) has a much more conservative attitude towards advertising and "flesh in the media" (similar to the US). The result of this is that the young "rebellious" population of the UK do dress provocatively and irresponsibly. It is a regular sight on a night out to see hoards of girls being harrased on big city streets because they're wearing nothing more than a miniskirt and a corset. In my opinion a society that accepts the human body is also one that learns to respect and admire it.

I do, however, have to say that the overwhelming and unfettered cheesiness of A&F campaigns puts me off ever buying their clothes!
 02/04/2008 12:22:46 PM · #146
Originally posted by wavelength:
The global warming freaks ,

Oh, dear. I guess those would be the scientists trying to save your ass.
02/04/2008 12:24:11 PM · #147
Originally posted by karmat:
I can avoid the mall, but I shouldn't have to.

I totally agree with that sentiment, but it's not realistic. There are some places I no longer frequent or patronize because I don't like what they've become for whatever reason. In some cases, it shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Trust me, with a 13 year old daughter, I'm really not a whole lot happier than the majority here....I just completely agree with their right to promote their products in pretty much any manner they choose.

And I hold on to my right to completely ignore them, explain to my kid what true tastelessness is, and hope that my parenting skills are effective.

Look, I want my kid to grow up sensibly and with a good head on her shoulders. But I'm not going to teach her the same intolerance and judgmentalist attitudes that created the US in the first place.
 02/04/2008 12:27:11 PM · #148
Originally posted by wavelength:
The global warming freaks ,

Originally posted by citymars:
Oh, dear. I guess those would be the scientists trying to save your ass.

Yeah, where would I be in life without the guidance of people like Al Gore.

Certainly I wouldn't be smart enough to figure out the last few decades of environmentalism all by myself.

PLEASE!

Message edited by author 2008-02-04 12:27:36.
 02/04/2008 12:27:27 PM · #149
Originally posted by wavelength:
If the voting populace want to make a law based on whatever the hell they want, that's their right under the U.S. consitution, their state constitutions, and their local charters. Get over it.

No, their laws have to comply with the Constitution, including the First Amendment.
 02/04/2008 12:35:39 PM · #150
Heh, when my daughters (six and nine) and I see someone showing buttcrack (etc), we point & laugh. It's all part of my plan to prevent them from getting pregnant until they're at least 30.


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