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01/27/2008 11:04:59 PM · #76 |
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
I thought the question was:
"What would Britney Spears do?" |
Nope, it defintely "What would Brian Boitano do?" and if I can't come up with an answer I just blame Canada. |
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01/27/2008 11:10:15 PM · #77 |
I truly cannot support this proposal as it seemingly presupposes that people who do not participate in challenges are devoid of talent in the realm of photography.
It must also be borne in mind that success on DPC may or may not be reflective of what truly constitutes ART.
I for one do not participate in challenges on a regular basis as it it not the primary reason for my being here. Mine is a learning experience, and I can state that I am indeed learning, albeit at my own pace.
I would wager that the implementation of such a proposal would be a death knoll for voting as we see it. Already we have had threads bemoaning the fact that there is seemingly a penury of voters... and a proposal such as this one does little to entice people to vote.
I find it rather sad to think that the 115,000 votes I have cast to date are viewed as being of little or no value simply due to the fact that I don't participate in challenges to the liking of some.
Ray |
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01/27/2008 11:12:32 PM · #78 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Be happy that someone even commented. If I take time to comment on anybody's photo, I would like that the other person appreciates it. Evenif I write 'interesting' or any one word. |
That was exactly my point, though I don't think my voice inflection carried over to the text posting! |
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01/27/2008 11:17:56 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by yospiff:
Originally posted by zxaar:
Be happy that someone even commented. If I take time to comment on anybody's photo, I would like that the other person appreciates it. Evenif I write 'interesting' or any one word. |
That was exactly my point, though I don't think my voice inflection carried over to the text posting! |
My apologies.
But still I really wonder why there are people who think that a comment has to be a critic or helpful in someway. I think comments as a reaction to the photo. For example lets say we go to a art gallery, and look at a painting . We do have our thoughts about it - this may be soemthing like 'Bullshit shit, is this art' or simply 'a**hole- what is this f**k'.
But still they are reactions, if someoen takes time to tell you what he/she actually felt , we shall be thankful. In todays busy world who has time for others. |
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01/27/2008 11:34:06 PM · #80 |
I thin this whole thread is pointless, other than my brilliant post earlier.
I think it is appearant that the orignal poster is a relative new comer to this site. That is not a bad thing. However in the short times since his arrival I have seen two threads where he has questioned the voting. It is obvious to me that he doesn't like the votes he is receiving and thinks that it is all because of trolls, instead of taking the blame that his photos just don't warrant the higher scores he feels they do in his mind.
We call this low self-efficacy. That means that nothing is your fault, only the fault of everyone else around you.
I think it is absurd to think that your images should only be voted on by people who have a higher score than you. Lets think about this for a second. Do I really want the only people voting on my photos to be those that are gifted photographers? I mean what would Ansel Adams think of my photo? I am sure he could pick it apart, and in doing so vote it a 1 because he is used to seeing the brilliatn works of photography that he creates.
To put it simply, and I don't mean for this to sound as rude as it might, but if you don't like the way things are voted here than this site is not for you. Go find a site where you can get praise for photos that don't deserve them. Enhance that low self-efficacy that you already possess and move on.
Quite frankly, I am tired of seeing this thread pop up on the front page, so please let it die!
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01/27/2008 11:37:59 PM · #81 |
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01/27/2008 11:44:03 PM · #82 |
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Popcorn anyone? |
What are we watching :P |
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01/27/2008 11:52:39 PM · #83 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Popcorn anyone? |
What are we watching :P |
star wars |
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01/27/2008 11:57:45 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by FocusPoint:
Originally posted by trevytrev:
Popcorn anyone? |
What are we watching :P |
the same old same old... :P |
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01/28/2008 12:18:23 AM · #85 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Do you really think that ice skating professionals aim their routines at the crowd, or the judges? They take their advice from previous winners and people with experience, to help guide their artistic (and technical) efforts. Yes, pleasing the crowd influences the judges, but ultimately they are performing for judges and the advice comes from experience, not random ice skating fans by how loud they cheer.
Let's say you have a routine. You're not sure if it's good enough for the olympics. Are you going to perform it at a few national shows and gauge crowd appreciation, or are you going to perform it for some respected skating elders for critical evaluation? I know which one I'd prefer. In the very least I'd like the opinion of other skaters before the general unskating public.
N |
Why does it have to be one or the other? Both the pros and the audience opinions DO have their influence on the end product. (As you stated, pleasing the crowd influences the judges.)
At DPC you have BOTH the pros and the general audience. You get the balance necessary to produce not only a technically good work but an artistically pleasing one. Why would you even want to eliminate half the equation? |
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01/28/2008 12:27:40 AM · #86 |
The troll discussion is SO VERY tiresome. Geesh! Trolls exist, get used to it! There are more of us honest voters than your 'troll' voter so wtf? Who cares about it? Oh yeah, I forgot... this is the trillionth thread on what to do with trolls, blah, blah, blah.
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01/28/2008 06:52:37 AM · #87 |
A quick note to everyone bored of this:
STOP READING IT AND REPLYING TO IT THEN! No-one is putting a gun to your head and you are participating in this discussion voluntarily.
If this is a dead horse topic and people who have been here and seen and heard this topic done to death already, ask yourself, why is it the same questions keep coming up again and again?
N |
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01/28/2008 07:16:35 AM · #88 |
I'll ask again: Are Langdon and I trolls? If not, why should we be banned from voting?
Under your proposal, we would be.
~Terry
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01/28/2008 08:04:31 AM · #89 |
 ClubJuggle: last entry 0506, average vote 5.6. Troll? No.
 Langdon: last entry 06/07, average vote 5.7. Troll? No.
In contrast
TrollUser: last entry 0405, average vote 3.5. Troll? Yes.
TrollUser2: last entry nil, average vote 3. Troll? Yes.
Do you see where I'm coming from? This isn't a witchhunt, just some basic quality control.
N
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01/28/2008 08:11:24 AM · #90 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Do you see where I'm coming from? This isn't a witchhunt, just some basic quality control.
N |
Quality control starts before you enter the image into a challenge. As we like to say about data....garbage in=garbage out.
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01/28/2008 08:14:43 AM · #91 |
Originally posted by BHuseman:
Quality control starts before you enter the image into a challenge. As we like to say about data....garbage in=garbage out. |
GIGO assumes some kind of logic going on between the GI and the GO. Reducing voters with low or no participation in recent times with below average voting scores I think helps to remove some of the 'noise' in voting, and leaves the variance to personal taste and appreciation, rather than these dodgy confounds. Nothing major, just noise removal if you will...
N |
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01/28/2008 08:44:34 AM · #92 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
A quick note to everyone bored of this:
STOP READING IT AND REPLYING TO IT THEN! |
What a truly wonderful idea... I shall strive to make you happy and hope others will join me.
Ray |
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01/28/2008 08:49:14 AM · #93 |
Bold emphasis added by me...
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
Firstly, I'm not talking about those scores. I am referring to comments on one of them, and one still in vote. This thread has only ever been about comments (i.e. valuable learning tool) and trying to root out trolls who contribute poor comments and scores. I firmly stand by that, and if you re-read the thread you'll see that's all I'm arguing. |
From the way I read the following part of your OP, it sounds like score/voting is a big part of your concern. ???
Bold emphasis added by me...
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
... If a users voting average is particularly low and they aren't entering challenges then why are they allowed to continually participate and project their unhappiness/frustration/bile onto us? Adding a voting condition that someone has to have participated with 3 months isn't difficult or unreasonable, or radical for that matter...and it might start to clean up these rogue voters. |
If you are really just concerned about comments, as you've just said, then there really isn't much to be done about it at all. You don't have to vote to comment.
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01/28/2008 08:50:39 AM · #94 |
I only started this thread because I thought it might be a good idea. I'm now alienating people and that wasn't ever the aim. It was just a suggestion and not a personal attack, criticism or anything similar...but there seems to be a very knee jerk reaction from people, probably from the same issues coming up again and again.
N |
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01/28/2008 08:55:54 AM · #95 |
A reminder to all (and especially to those who had posts hidden):
* Please keep the discussion on-topic and about the proposed suggestion. Making the issue personal is not helpful.
* Do not publicly accue other participants of rule violations. Doing so is itself a violation of the forum rules, usually considered at least as serious as the original alleged violation. If you believe another participant has violated the forum rules, report the post and do not reply to it at all.
~Terry
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01/28/2008 08:59:17 AM · #96 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
To anyone insulted or put out by my "provide any value" comment - what I should have said it "provide any learning value". No offense intended.
I hear what people are saying and I'll shut up. I'd be in favour of those commenting changes that one of the SC mentioned if nothing else can be done.
N |
Short of memory? ;)
No offence meant, but you made your point by now. Discussion is good, but there is no point in repeating yourself forever. Thanks for opening this thread, it has been useful. I had for instance not heard of the good idea that  GeneralE brought forward. There is however no point in beating the dead horse. Your proposal is a bridge too far for most users and will harm and insult users that are not trolls. I (and many others) would rather accept the consequences of having trolls around than to block users from voting or commenting based on any type of so-called 'quality control'. Just accept that quality in photography is a subjective measure, ignore low scores and comments and focus on the good ones.
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01/28/2008 09:08:44 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
A quick note to everyone bored of this:
STOP READING IT AND REPLYING TO IT THEN! No-one is putting a gun to your head and you are participating in this discussion voluntarily.
If this is a dead horse topic and people who have been here and seen and heard this topic done to death already, ask yourself, why is it the same questions keep coming up again and again?
N |
you do have a good point there. i would also ask people who have been here and feel this is a dead issue to remember that not everyone has been here as long and not dismiss others opinions and disrupt the discussion to ask it to be shut down just because you've seen or participated in something similar already. if you find it tiresome, don't open the thread.
there are always going to be new people joining and cycling in and out of the same discussions. please don't discourage us from discussing things you've already seen discussed or been a part of yourself. please don't make us feel like we're boring you , even if we are. |
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01/28/2008 09:30:51 AM · #98 |
Well, not that my opinion matters one way or the other here, but I have to disagree with the OP. Sure, if DPC did require people to stay "semi-active" in terms of submitting images so that they could vote, the number of images in any give challenge would probably increase. Is that a good thing though? I sure don't think so for two reasons: (1) We already have high numbers for each challenge so the need to encourage more participation is not needed. (2) By requiring image submissions within a certain amount of time in order to stay eligible to vote, the quality of images then submitted would deteriorate in all likely hood. I would rather go through fewer good images while voting then have to go through more mediocre images.
In all honesty, I agree with BHuseman's take on your OP. It seems you are under some impression that your images are better than the votes they are receiving and you feel it's because those voting are somehow not qualified to do so. That is unfortunately not the case. Everyone gets a vote here and deserves to vote and comment how they see fit. If you feel your images are better than the votes received, you are in for a long hard road here I'm afraid.
Message edited by author 2008-01-28 09:31:47. |
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01/28/2008 09:31:44 AM · #99 |
Originally posted by desertoddity:
Originally posted by Quasimojo:
A quick note to everyone bored of this:
STOP READING IT AND REPLYING TO IT THEN! No-one is putting a gun to your head and you are participating in this discussion voluntarily.
If this is a dead horse topic and people who have been here and seen and heard this topic done to death already, ask yourself, why is it the same questions keep coming up again and again?
N |
you do have a good point there. i would also ask people who have been here and feel this is a dead issue to remember that not everyone has been here as long and not dismiss others opinions and disrupt the discussion to ask it to be shut down just because you've seen or participated in something similar already. if you find it tiresome, don't open the thread.
there are always going to be new people joining and cycling in and out of the same discussions. please don't discourage us from discussing things you've already seen discussed or been a part of yourself. please don't make us feel like we're boring you , even if we are. |
It can also be useful to take a peak at a subject by searching for it, especially when you kind of know ahead of time it's probably been discussed.
Forum Rules
#3 - Search existing threads for a topic before starting a new one. Since threads are indexed for search every few hours, you should both search (using the search box at the bottom of the front page) AND check recent threads (by checking the front page, or better, clicking "Community" on the menu bar) before creating a new thread. In the interest of keeping the forums orderly, the Site Council will lock any duplicate threads, and include a link to the existing thread on the topic.
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01/28/2008 09:44:53 AM · #100 |
True trolls can easily be identified if they vote enough. Run a stat checker that examines how people vote for brown ribbon entries. If they consistently vote 10 for obvious brown images they are trolls. You've seen it. A  charliebaker or whiterook image with half a dozen or more 10's. They'd just as well run a flag up their mast with TROLL on it. LOL
All that aside I don't think we need to disqualify people from voting just because they've been away for three months. |
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