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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 51, (reverse)
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 01/08/2008 11:13:52 PM · #26
Originally posted by routerguy666:
If you admit there are DQ decisions that should have been reversed, why are you opposed to a suggestion that would allow for the possibility of that reversal?


No, I'd say that if there have been shots that should have truly been reversed, they were reversed. And that has happened on such a minuscule number of occasions that the benefit of your suggestion is far outweighed by the downsides I've previously mentioned.

Every shot that comes up for DQ is given a pretty thorough look, and there's not a whole lot of need for us to be wishy-washy by constantly re-instating things down the road. The times where we end up looking like we're inconsistent is when we may have had a split decision in the past on a shot, allowed it to remain because we err on the side of caution, and later regretted not DQ'ing it because people decided that it set a precedent for future shots, quite frankly.
 01/08/2008 11:17:34 PM · #27
Originally posted by routerguy666:
My suggestion was that a small change in timing, nothing more, could introduce an opportunity for dialog and appeal. This being different from the current system of closed-door decisions, copy/paste reasons, instant removal from the challenge, no appeal, and a week of threads bitching about it afterwards.

Obviously if there have been reversals, there is a system for appeals. I can think of only two decisions that were reversed on images that hadn't completed voting- both of which had been "accidentally" DQ'd just before rollover. As Alan noted, basically all DQs enforced during the challenge are clear decisions (added text, invalid dates, and obvious editing violations). I know we've let some split decisions continue until rollover specifically to get all the votes in, but the obvious DQ's do more harm than good by remaining for reasons already stated. The templated DQ reasons save time and offer sufficient explanation in most cases, but we can elaborate if requested. Bitching knows no time limit (nor much provocation).
 01/08/2008 11:25:04 PM · #28
I have mixed feelings about this. I have had two images DQ'd, however, you'll only see one on my page.

The official DQ was an oversight and a misapplication of the extra rule. I'd have hated to receive comment after comment telling me what an idiot I was to misapply the rule. I was glad it was pulled.

The other DQ was overturned. It was in the Best of 2006 Challenge in which the voting went on for 2 weeks. It was DQ'd and pulled. I appealed, and after finally being able to share what I had done in editing (it was edited months before), it was validated. While it was under appeal, it was put back in voting. I appreciated that. It would be difficult to be in a position where the image was pulled from voting and then reinstated, yet not in the results.
 01/08/2008 11:36:16 PM · #29
So it sounds like the OP's suggestion is pretty much how the SC handles DQs already, being the smart, well intentioned people that they are. When you think about it, this site really does rock :-)
 01/09/2008 12:19:18 AM · #30
Originally posted by geoffb:
The original suggestion does no harm to the other images ...

Ah, but it does -- it takes voting time, attention, and comments away from images which are valid entries. People are already complaining all the time about not getting enough votes/comments -- why should we allow those to be made on an image already ruled illegal? You are welcome to comment (and say what you would have voted) on DQ'd images when the voting is completed.
 01/09/2008 12:21:26 AM · #31
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by geoffb:
The original suggestion does no harm to the other images ...

Ah, but it does -- it takes voting time, attention, and comments away from images which are valid entries. People are already complaining all the time about not getting enough votes/comments.

Okay, fair enough. I never thought of that.
 01/09/2008 02:45:40 PM · #32
Yea, that's what I said way up above, but when the General says it, it's sounds more "offical".

;)

Mike
 01/09/2008 02:50:28 PM · #33
Originally posted by MikeJ:
Yea, that's what I said way up above, but when the General says it, it's sounds more "offical".

;)

Mike


Just change your name to PresidentMike ;)
 01/09/2008 02:58:35 PM · #34
Originally posted by glad2badad:
I misread the intent of this thread earlier. I thought the DQ'd images would be displayed in the position they finished rather than being placed at the end of results. Sorry about that miscue. However, I'm still not in favor of changing the current DQ process. If DQ'd, then they should get pulled from the challenge and score result is eliminated, as it works now.

However, the following quote made me think about something. How can a score on a DQ'd image be helpful? The value of the score is tainted. If a user submits a challenge entry that uses tools outside the rules the score could be wrongfully inflated. To compare a DQ'd image score to other entries that followed the rules is an irrelevant comparison.

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
It would actually be helpful to have a score associated with a DQ and where an image would have placed for purely educational and statistical purposes. It does add a bit of sting to the wound too.


Well, my thoughts were that it would allow us to see exactly how the voters liked the image and what he/she lost by cheating. It would also show that it's not always the top of the pack images that get busted more efficiently.
 01/09/2008 03:15:10 PM · #35
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
Well, my thoughts were that it would allow us to see exactly how the voters liked the image and what he/she lost by cheating.


Or gained by cheating...
 01/09/2008 05:03:22 PM · #36
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by geoffb:
The original suggestion does no harm to the other images ...

Ah, but it does -- it takes voting time, attention, and comments away from images which are valid entries. People are already complaining all the time about not getting enough votes/comments -- why should we allow those to be made on an image already ruled illegal? You are welcome to comment (and say what you would have voted) on DQ'd images when the voting is completed.


In most challenges so few images are DQed that the time impact of voting/commenting on those images should not be an issue.
 01/09/2008 05:16:09 PM · #37
Originally posted by fixedintime:
In most challenges so few images are DQed that the time impact of voting/commenting on those images should not be an issue.


The question, though, is how many people would be encouraged to submit images knowing they were outside of the rules if they knew they would have all the benefit of votes and comments? It seems to me that this proposal would encourage such behavior.
 01/09/2008 05:18:57 PM · #38
Originally posted by fixedintime:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by geoffb:
The original suggestion does no harm to the other images ...

Ah, but it does -- it takes voting time, attention, and comments away from images which are valid entries. People are already complaining all the time about not getting enough votes/comments -- why should we allow those to be made on an image already ruled illegal? You are welcome to comment (and say what you would have voted) on DQ'd images when the voting is completed.


In most challenges so few images are DQed that the time impact of voting/commenting on those images should not be an issue.


I count at least 8 in the time lapse so far... that is what? about 10% DQ =D
 01/09/2008 05:35:34 PM · #39
Originally posted by inshaala:
Originally posted by fixedintime:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by geoffb:
The original suggestion does no harm to the other images ...

Ah, but it does -- it takes voting time, attention, and comments away from images which are valid entries. People are already complaining all the time about not getting enough votes/comments -- why should we allow those to be made on an image already ruled illegal? You are welcome to comment (and say what you would have voted) on DQ'd images when the voting is completed.


In most challenges so few images are DQed that the time impact of voting/commenting on those images should not be an issue.


I count at least 8 in the time lapse so far... that is what? about 10% DQ =D


But that is very high due to the nature of rule changes for this challenge.

Fire III had 6 out of 120
Ice II had 1 out of 221
The free study had 6 out of 429
Object Isolation by Contrast had 1 of 188
and Stupid Gifts had 2 out of 206

That comes out around 1.9% - not a very big number
 01/09/2008 05:35:42 PM · #40
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Originally posted by alanfreed:
And that ignorant statement was in response to this ignorant statement. And I managed to do it without the F*** word.


Whatever, you win.


Sorry you dislike seemingly so much here. No place is perfect. Look at our own U.S. of A.... we elected Bush...twice! Now we can correct it... since we were unable to DQ him. All I am saying is that for want of a better term, DPC, with all it's flaws (?) is pretty doggone nice compared to some of the other sites I have tried. And... BIG and...improvements happen all of the time so others see there are problems and things are in the works to fix, correct or whatever them in the near and/or distant future.

If what you have on your profile is current, and therefore true, I will be sorry to see you go. You are a fine photographer and you shall be missed for what you have added to the site.

So...toodles to you too... [user]routerguy666[/user]

Mike
 01/09/2008 05:48:40 PM · #41
Arguing on the net... the wonders. There is a common saying for that, but i think it might start another argument about how PC people should be in forums.

Larry - i know, i was only being... well i don't know the adjective to describe it really :)
 01/09/2008 06:09:45 PM · #42
I agree. Especially, when there are 4 challenges, with 100+ images. I'd like to give quality time to vote AND vote for all (not just the 20 % min).

Put it this way, if someone is DQed in the olympics, do they still compete?

Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by geoffb:
The original suggestion does no harm to the other images ...

Ah, but it does -- it takes voting time, attention, and comments away from images which are valid entries. People are already complaining all the time about not getting enough votes/comments -- why should we allow those to be made on an image already ruled illegal? You are welcome to comment (and say what you would have voted) on DQ'd images when the voting is completed.
01/21/2008 07:55:45 AM · #43
after reading this thread I don't blame him for leaving...I would too and probably in not such a nice way : )))
 01/21/2008 08:07:57 AM · #44
it's simple ... routerguy666 is cool, SC isn't
 01/21/2008 08:10:37 AM · #45
I don't thinkthat SC is uncool. I also don't think they have done anything wrong. Sure there has been some controversy over DQ'd photos, bit there is also controversy over referees in every game played. Life goes on. To be so upset about it that you take your ball and go home is just childish.
 01/21/2008 08:27:37 AM · #46
Why should someone get any benefit from a DQ? If the image is going to be DQ'd there should be no score. What's the point of seeing how something would do if it's not part of the challenge?

ETA: Why should voters have to waste their time on an image that's not part of the challenge? The sooner it's removed the better then the least number of voters waste time.

Message edited by author 2008-01-21 08:33:05.
 01/21/2008 08:33:31 AM · #47
Don't forget, we ask people to vote during challenges as though the images were legal. Among the many reasons to DQ during the challenge voting period, another is that if we were to let DQ's stay and get a score anyway it opens up the idea that people could give lower votes to brilliant/tricky/sensational shots thinking that they were illegal.
 01/21/2008 09:03:00 AM · #48
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Why should someone get any benefit from a DQ? If the image is going to be DQ'd there should be no score. What's the point of seeing how something would do if it's not part of the challenge?

ETA: Why should voters have to waste their time on an image that's not part of the challenge? The sooner it's removed the better then the least number of voters waste time.


What if the image were DQ'ed, pulled and later found to be legal?


01/21/2008 09:14:19 AM · #49
Originally posted by L2:
Don't forget, we ask people to vote during challenges as though the images were legal. Among the many reasons to DQ during the challenge voting period, another is that if we were to let DQ's stay and get a score anyway it opens up the idea that people could give lower votes to brilliant/tricky/sensational shots thinking that they were illegal.


Then why not strip DQ'ed images of all comments and scores after the challenge?
 01/21/2008 09:22:06 AM · #50
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Why should someone get any benefit from a DQ? If the image is going to be DQ'd there should be no score. What's the point of seeing how something would do if it's not part of the challenge?

ETA: Why should voters have to waste their time on an image that's not part of the challenge? The sooner it's removed the better then the least number of voters waste time.

What if the image were DQ'ed, pulled and later found to be legal?


Spaz Mo - The following quote/comment by Shannon addresses your question quite well IMO. It's on this page of the thread, just scroll down a little and you're sure to see it if you care to catch up on what's already been hashed out in here.

Originally posted by scalvert:
... I can think of only two decisions that were reversed on images that hadn't completed voting- both of which had been "accidentally" DQ'd just before rollover. As Alan noted, basically all DQs enforced during the challenge are clear decisions (added text, invalid dates, and obvious editing violations). I know we've let some split decisions continue until rollover specifically to get all the votes in, but the obvious DQ's do more harm than good by remaining for reasons already stated. ...
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