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11/10/2007 06:03:28 PM · #126 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
Not directed at anyone in particular, but how many, in between reading this thread, have one of these windows open as well:
Scene It! II
Popcorn
Single Light Source IV
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If not, why not?
If so, why?
Honest answers to these questions might help find the best solution(s).
Of course, the non forum readers/posters won't be answering. |
Interesting. Hopefully some got sidetracked by clicking one of the above and voting. At any rate, valid questions - but 'hard' ones.
As an experiment and to further examine the voting process, I'll go first.. I wasn't voting in tandem when I posted this, but I then opened up Single Light Source IV (which I hadn't viewed at all) in a separate window. I'm now 47% through.
Why did I start voting? - partly because of 'conscience', partly as an exercise in the voting process, partly 'other'.
What can make voting "easier, more rewarding or more fun"? - I'll respond (with my views of course) when I finish.
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11/10/2007 06:11:30 PM · #127 |
I don't think anyone has come up with something that's complicated enough yet.
Or in other words... if it's not fixable, don't break it worse.
Mike
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11/10/2007 06:15:00 PM · #128 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
I don't think anyone has come up with something that's complicated enough yet.
Or in other words... if it's not fixable, don't break it worse. |
...and that's why the discussion is still going. We're not just looking for a solution, we're looking for the right solution. We're not yet convinced that none exists.
~Terry
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11/10/2007 06:17:13 PM · #129 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
Originally posted by macrothing:
Not directed at anyone in particular, but how many, in between reading this thread, have one of these windows open as well:
Scene It! II
Popcorn
Single Light Source IV
?
If not, why not?
If so, why?
Honest answers to these questions might help find the best solution(s).
Of course, the non forum readers/posters won't be answering. |
Interesting. Hopefully some got sidetracked by clicking one of the above and voting. At any rate, valid questions - but 'hard' ones.
As an experiment and to further examine the voting process, I'll go first.. I wasn't voting in tandem when I posted this, but I then opened up Single Light Source IV (which I hadn't viewed at all) in a separate window. I'm now 47% through.
Why did I start voting? - partly because of 'conscience', partly as an exercise in the voting process, partly 'other'.
What can make voting "easier, more rewarding or more fun"? - I'll respond (with my views of course) when I finish. |
Okay, I'll bite.
To answer your original question, I have none of those windows open. I'm not voting on Scene It! II at all as I am entirely uninterested in the challenge topic. I have completed voting on Popcorn. I have no patience for Single Light Source IV today and will vote when I'm in a better mood.
I do not care for your idea that I have to spend 50% of my time voting while here. I do so much more on this site and voting has never taken 50% of my weekly visiting time. Further, I don't think this is really the appropriate place for a poll...discussion about the value of a poll, maybe...but not a poll.
I have not entered a challenge since some time in July. So, frankly, I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about my level of participation on the voting/commenting end of challenge. (I do still vote and sometimes comment.) I pay my $25 for the opportunity to participate in challenges. But if I just want to be here for the print site, the forums, the side-challenges, or to gaze upon pretty pictures nothing is going to make me feel guilty for doing otherwise. Impose some arbitrary rule and I'll take my pixels and play somewhere else. ;p |
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11/10/2007 06:19:27 PM · #130 |
| Limit the number of entries. Once a certain quota has been reached, close submissions. What can be simpler than this? It's easy to vote on a hundred images. It's painful to go through multiple hundreds. |
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11/10/2007 06:22:04 PM · #131 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Limit the number of entries. Once a certain quota has been reached, close submissions. What can be simpler than this? It's easy to vote on a hundred images. It's painful to go through multiple hundreds. |
Won't that reduce the overall quality of entries as people rush to get something, anything in? Also, is it really fair to people who don't have the time to shoot during the week, and would always find that the challenge is closed by the time their day off hits?
Also, we're seeing the falloff in voting even on small challenges.
~Terry
Message edited by author 2007-11-10 18:22:31.
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11/10/2007 06:26:39 PM · #132 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by Simms:
Originally posted by yanko:
I'm with kirbic on this issue. You can't force people to vote by taking away privileges (sorry Mark but that' what you're suggesting). They have to want to vote so just make the voting experience more enjoyable and see what that accomplishes.
As I suggested earlier if you repeat challenges, choose from the most popular ones only. We have enough data on this to figure out which has generated the most interest. Number of comments received on average of previous challenges might be a strong clue.
Make the voting different but give people the option to still vote the old way. In other words, offer more choices in the way you see the photos. For those who have large monitors give those people the option to see 2-3 photos side by side. For those who only like to vote on subjects they like then give them the option to sort by gallery type. As long as they vote 20% who cares what subject they focus on especially when they might be doing it already (wink wink). |
OK, I think you are onto something here.. how about, when they decide to vote, they are presented with 20% of the entries, randomly selected.. now they have to vote on this initial 20% before the other 80% of the challenge is visible? This would stop people looking at the thumbnails page and picking the ones that look interesting. You could even engineer it so that the 20% you get to see are the 20% of the images with the lowest numbers of votes..
This would encourage entrants to vote so they could `unlock` the remaining images to see what they are up against. Even if they stop after the initial 20% at least you have got them to vote and thus pushed the voting up slightly higher.
Or even completely lock out the thumbnails page until 100% of images have been voted on.. granted afew wouldnt even bother to look, but I know that not being able to see the competition would bug the hell out of me and encourage me to vote more. I think this would generate a LOT of votes immediately after rollover.
or even make it 50%.. |
None of this does anything to actually help or encourage beginners. |
read the topic title then come back to me. |
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11/10/2007 06:28:05 PM · #133 |
| If you publish my voting and commenting tutorials, that might encourage beginners! |
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11/10/2007 06:36:48 PM · #134 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
If you publish my voting and commenting tutorials, that might encourage beginners! |
I'll THWACKâ„¢ Langdon to remind him.
~Terry
Message edited by author 2007-11-10 18:36:59.
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11/10/2007 06:41:31 PM · #135 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Limit the number of entries. Once a certain quota has been reached, close submissions. What can be simpler than this? It's easy to vote on a hundred images. It's painful to go through multiple hundreds. |
Won't that reduce the overall quality of entries as people rush to get something, anything in? Also, is it really fair to people who don't have the time to shoot during the week, and would always find that the challenge is closed by the time their day off hits?
Also, we're seeing the falloff in voting even on small challenges.
~Terry |
I think the opposite would happen, voters would vote out of interest and comment more, because there's more time to do so. The quality of submissions could improve, too, or remain the same, as those who enter would soon realize that their image isn't one inna million anymore.
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11/10/2007 06:51:51 PM · #136 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
...Okay, I'll bite.
To answer your original question, I have none of those windows open. I'm not voting on Scene It! II at all as I am entirely uninterested in the challenge topic. |
good, thanks for the honesty - so lack of interest
Originally posted by KaDi:
I have completed voting on Popcorn. I have no patience for Single Light Source IV today and will vote when I'm in a better mood. |
good, thanks for the honesty - so patience (I'm guessing you've seen the entries to say that.. )
Originally posted by KaDi:
I do not care for your idea that I have to spend 50% of my time voting while here. |
was just an idea, of many (and not directed at you personally) - maybe it could apply to those entering challenges - I don't know, I'm just throwing ideas out there..
Originally posted by KaDi:
Further, I don't think this is really the appropriate place for a poll...discussion about the value of a poll, maybe...but not a poll. |
lost me there, but I was quoting/responding to ClubJuggle earlier in the thread if that is what you were referring to
Originally posted by KaDi:
I have not entered a challenge since some time in July. So, frankly, I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about my level of participation on the voting/commenting end of challenge. |
well there you go
Originally posted by KaDi:
(I do still vote and sometimes comment.) I pay my $25 for the opportunity to participate in challenges. But if I just want to be here for the print site, the forums, the side-challenges, or to gaze upon pretty pictures nothing is going to make me feel guilty for doing otherwise. Impose some arbitrary rule and I'll take my pixels and play somewhere else. ;p |
fair enough - but they're all offshoots
the subject of the thread is about encouraging people to vote in the challenges - of course I am trying to determine why they don't in the first place, then ways to encourage can be tailored |
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11/10/2007 06:52:48 PM · #137 |
Originally posted by RamblinR:
OK, here I go again. Don't know why I do this as I'm sure to rub someone up the wrong way again.
This site has many members and submissions to challenges are quite strong. Maybe it's time to create some grades. A, B and C or just A & B. Maybe it would help give some recognition to beginners. A chance to be more than the average.
Your current overall average could be used to decide which grade you are in. As it goes up your grade goes up, as it goes down your grade goes down. This means that those that are in say C grade, actually get a chance of getting a picture on the front page for their grade. That would be an encouragement to many I am sure.
I'm thinking that this would create more interest in voting for those that are always disappointed with their placing. They now have an interest to vote for their grade and see how they fare now that they have a better chance of maybe getting on the front page for a week. (We all want a ribbon - at least I'd love one anyway).
The members portfolio would then show a blue ribbon with a C beside it so that everyone knows which grade it was for.
I also still think that voting on a percentage of the entries if you have entered the challenge should just be part of the deal. If you had time to submit a photo then you should make time to vote and be part of the challenge you have entered - it's a simple and effective way to participate in this site (yes, there are others also). |
I'm still thinking the A, B, C grades could work. What are others thoughts on this idea? |
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11/10/2007 07:10:34 PM · #138 |
The kudos idea could work.
The problem I have is that no matter how many kudos stars you give out, it's not gonna give me my time back.
Maybe with the northern hemisphere turning cold now the votes will pick up as more people spend time in doors? |
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11/10/2007 07:20:15 PM · #139 |
Teach me how "voting" makes me a better photographer.
I've seen it mentioned dozens of times in dozens of posts that voting on other peoples entries is the best way to learn. If that is the case it should be fairly simple to demonstrate.
If it could be shown that there was a correlation between one's quantity of votes and one's improvement in their own scores than I personally would vote more often, and I suspect others might as well.
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11/10/2007 07:31:18 PM · #140 |
For those interested, I just finished. Took about an hour (with breaks) for 198 images. Did my usual: opened up the first image of each row (5 at a time) in a new window (speeds it up for me and I don't have to watch an image load, it is just 'there'), once they cycle through I go back and refresh the main page and do it again.
Bit of a slog; numbers of entries, numbers of entries not having read challenge description or not putting in any (perceived) effort, uninteresting subjects, etc.
A few innovative uses of the technique, which is always good to see.
Some ideas to make voting..
'easier':
how about 5 images displayed per page (vertically) with the voting bar and comment box below each (might be hard to code that)
less images, of course (maybe splitting into more manageable groups)
'more rewarding':
can't think of any that have not already been suggested
'more fun':
making the challenges 'King' again really would put the entries into the spotlight more
... more refined pictures?
maybe making it more fun for those also receiving votes, 'somehow'
maybe a random image from any given challenge displayed on the home page (or any DPC page for that matter) - clicking on it takes you to it and then cycles through the rest of the images
I don't think making it easier, more rewarding and more fun is a total solution, but it would sure be an improvement. |
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11/10/2007 07:33:49 PM · #141 |
Originally posted by jonejess:
Teach me how "voting" makes me a better photographer.
I've seen it mentioned dozens of times in dozens of posts that voting on other peoples entries is the best way to learn. If that is the case it should be fairly simple to demonstrate.
If it could be shown that there was a correlation between one's quantity of votes and one's improvement in their own scores than I personally would vote more often, and I suspect others might as well. |
Ok, here's my take on it.
When I vote I view others ideas and setups for challenges. I look at their lighting, the angle they have taken the shot from, their creativity for the shot and even get to see the imagination that others use to create a great photo.
This in turn helps me to look at the shot I am going to take more objectively. Don't do something I hated to see in someone else's shot but do do things that impressed me from shots that I liked.
This has taught me that shots that score well have the following qualities:
Focus is important (something has generally got to be in focus to draw your eye - out of focus shots leave you searching all over the shot to find out what your supposed to be drawn to)
Keep the shot simple and to the point (don't clutter it with unneeded material that doesn't help - try to keep distracting colors or items out of the shot if possible)
Lighting (try to create light and shade in a shot to give more feeling and allow better contrast - otherwise it can look flat)
That's just a few but I think that gives the general idea. |
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11/10/2007 07:34:38 PM · #142 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
...making the challenges 'King' again really would put the entries into the spotlight more
.... |
I'm not sure what you mean by this? |
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11/10/2007 07:36:02 PM · #143 |
Originally posted by L2:
Originally posted by macrothing:
...making the challenges 'King' again really would put the entries into the spotlight more
.... |
I'm not sure what you mean by this? |
I think he's suggesting a "Royalty" challenge.
Seriously, I'm not sure either.
 macrothing, can you please explain this concept a little more?
~Terry
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11/10/2007 07:38:59 PM · #144 |
Originally posted by jonejess:
Teach me how "voting" makes me a better photographer.
I've seen it mentioned dozens of times in dozens of posts that voting on other peoples entries is the best way to learn. If that is the case it should be fairly simple to demonstrate.
If it could be shown that there was a correlation between one's quantity of votes and one's improvement in their own scores than I personally would vote more often, and I suspect others might as well. |
especially to those new to photography, it can help them learn the difference between a snapshot and a calculated image
it can also help you identify and follow a style (or just develop your own)
voting in itself does not improve your photography, but it does improve your eye (as does simply viewing many images, but voting (grading) makes you consider things more) - just my opinion
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11/10/2007 07:48:48 PM · #145 |
Times have changed at DPC, I know that, I accept that, but what I mean is: the challenges used to play a more dominant role at DPC, I think they're 'losing out' in a variety of ways.
I saw one person mention DPC as a forum - maybe that is how it is seen by many now, but I still see it as 'a digital photography contest' website primarily. The challenges are the foundation.
By "making the challenges King again", I simply mean put the main focus of the site back on the challenges, or perhaps better - put new focus on them. That's what people (most) came for in the first place ... right? |
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11/10/2007 07:50:11 PM · #146 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
Times have changed at DPC, I know that, I accept that, but what I mean is: the challenges used to play a more dominant role at DPC, I think they're 'losing out' in a variety of ways.
I saw one person mention DPC as a forum - maybe that is how it is seen by many now, but I still see it as 'a digital photography contest' website primarily. The challenges are the foundation.
By "making the challenges King again", I simply mean put the main focus of the site back on the challenges, or perhaps better - put new focus on them. That's what people (most) came for in the first place ... right? |
Sounds good, and I support that concept. Any concrete suggestions on how best to carry that out?
~Terry
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11/10/2007 07:52:02 PM · #147 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Sounds good, and I support that concept. Any concrete suggestions on how best to carry that out?
~Terry |
Delete the forums...muuwwwaahhh!! j/k
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11/10/2007 07:57:35 PM · #148 |
Originally posted by macrothing:
Times have changed at DPC, I know that, I accept that, but what I mean is: the challenges used to play a more dominant role at DPC, I think they're 'losing out' in a variety of ways.
I saw one person mention DPC as a forum - maybe that is how it is seen by many now, but I still see it as 'a digital photography contest' website primarily. The challenges are the foundation.
By "making the challenges King again", I simply mean put the main focus of the site back on the challenges, or perhaps better - put new focus on them. That's what people (most) came for in the first place ... right? |
I agree. Forums etc are a tool to help everyone communicate and learn but the challenges should be King. |
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11/10/2007 08:01:35 PM · #149 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
... Sounds good, and I support that concept. Any concrete suggestions on how best to carry that out?
~Terry |
I think that's another thread... but I'll give it some thought. Of course, it doesn't matter what I think, nor you (with due respect), first it needs to be established who drives those decisions. Is it the community or is it (still?)  langdon and drewmedia? Whoever, it depends what 'they' envision and would like to see, really. |
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11/10/2007 08:01:50 PM · #150 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
If you publish my voting and commenting tutorials, that might encourage beginners! |
Are there such items? I would love to see them. Today I posted quite a few times (for me). Generally, I'm a lurker.
Lurking has taught me several things:
1. I am always interested in the opinions of posthumous. If I were better, I would dare to dream of one of his ribbons.
2. I vote because a) I learn a lot from it, and b) because I feel like I owe that as a member of the site. However, given my limited time, I would never vote a challenge with more than 200 entries. (I'm sure I have at some point in the past, but my opportunities to spend that much time are limited.)
3. However, I love the FS challenges because I get to see the results. The top 40 or so are often amazing.
JMO. |
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