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09/28/2007 07:43:12 PM · #26 |
Also consider that if the front page is full of bitching, newcomers won't even want to register, let alone become members.
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09/28/2007 07:44:33 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Konador:
Also consider that if the front page is full of bitching, newcomers won't even want to register, let alone become members. |
So we should say "yes, amen and thank you" to whatever is dished out, all for the sake of hiding the truth? |
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09/28/2007 07:46:03 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
YUp... and customer service is at the forefront of how any consumer views a company.
If AT&T customer service told me there was nothing wrong with my phone and to just let it go, would they still have my account, no!
I'm not going to get into this rant, but there is something very WRONG at DPC. Langdon would serve his future pocket book well to listen to his clients and find out who or what that is.
That's all I'm going to say. |
Aside from the fact that I really feel that we don't actually PAY for a quality forum experience, I agree. I totally think SC *should* do certain things, because their job is to help the site run smoothly. I always think people should do a good job of the things they've committed to do.
I don't think we're *owed* what it seems like some people feel that we're owed, but I do still think it's a very good idea for SC to try to keep as many people as happy as possible (which, by the way, I think they do a very good job of with their excellent compromising skills). |
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09/28/2007 07:47:21 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
So we should say "yes, amen and thank you" to whatever is dished out, all for the sake of hiding the truth? |
No. We could, however, try saying, "I disagree completely, and thank you."
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09/28/2007 07:48:32 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by klstover:
No. We could, however, try saying, "I disagree completely, and thank you." |
Fancy that - that is just about EXACTLY what I said earlier. |
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09/28/2007 07:49:39 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Originally posted by klstover:
No. We could, however, try saying, "I disagree completely, and thank you." |
Fancy that - that is just about EXACTLY what I said earlier. |
Oh, well good thing I said WE, not YOU, hm? |
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09/28/2007 07:54:28 PM · #32 |
| Sorry that I've gotten too worked up. I think I'm going to give this thread a break for a while. |
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09/28/2007 07:56:17 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Beetle:
Originally posted by Konador:
Also consider that if the front page is full of bitching, newcomers won't even want to register, let alone become members. |
So we should say "yes, amen and thank you" to whatever is dished out, all for the sake of hiding the truth? |
No, I was just pointing out the flipside to fotoman's point.
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09/28/2007 07:58:07 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by frisca:
Judi is right -- sometimes it is obvious why a thread was locked. ie. hopelessly off topic and pointless. |
Can't there be a forum or someplace for those threads? Must we shoot them in the head and not just let them die of natural causes?
...oh sorry - - what I meant to say was "yes. Amen! Thank you!" :)
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09/28/2007 08:00:23 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by frisca:
Judi is right -- sometimes it is obvious why a thread was locked. ie. hopelessly off topic and pointless. |
As decided by one person, and generally one who doesn't even participate in the discussion at that.
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09/28/2007 08:01:09 PM · #36 |
These forum dramas might be entertaining to some, but there is a cost to them.
To illustrate, currently there are over 30 images in the queue waiting a vote for disqualification, proof requests, and replication for validation. Replication takes, oh say, 15 minutes average? The easier ones obviously take less time, but not everyone includes exact editing steps and some can take up to an hour playing around to get the right settings. That's over 30 people who aren't getting a timely answer because of forum drama.
In addition to that, there are 10 tickets and 2 Report Posts to evaluate and answer. Again, some are easy and can be handled in 5 minutes, others are for pre-validation or for a borderline user complaint which again requires time from more than one SC member to comment on them before a consensus answer can be given. That's 10 more people who aren't getting a timely answer to their query because of forum drama.
In addition to that, I (personally) have got an in-box of PM's to answer from people who'd rather not submit a ticket with small questions or comments. Today, for me, that was about 10 people. Not always so many, but generally there are a few. Each SC member's mileage may vary on this from day to day.
In addition to that, there are multiple projects going on for things that will improve the site. The one you guys are probably the most familiar with and want to know about is when DPL2 will start. Another project is trying to finish the final Expert Editing Ruleset. There are more, but these are probably priority items for our userbase. These projects also require time and attention, be it for spec'ing out how the project will get completed to answering polls on how a procedure should be implemented to all manner of minor decisions that need to be agreed on and coded before we can proceed. These projects affect everyone on the site.
In addition to that, we must monitor voting patterns to ensure your score is fair, address duplicate account holders, address individual user concerns with regard to copyright issues, and many more other things I'm also forgetting because they don't need to be done today, right now.
So now we come to the forums, where we try to keep up with the demands of enforcing forum rules so that everyone can have a good time while they are here. Not just a few people, who might disagree with or complain about complying with a specific rule, but everyone who comes to visit us here.
So for every forum drama that we try to manage, then to take the time to answer and explain (which is surely part of our responsibility) -- all this takes time away from our other important tasks. Even if you don't agree with a rule or think it's stupid, it still needs to be followed. The more you fuss about it, the more you hurt other users of the site.
If you are one of the 50 or so people (just today, right now) needing time and attention for your particular concern, it's because of this. If you are waiting for answers on DPL2, please be patient as we are now a couple of days behind our timeline because of this. Still waiting for Expert to be finished? Guess one of the reasons why.
In the end, complaining and pointing fingers might make you feel better but it's not helping the things you, the users, really care about.
So carry on with the Rant, but please try to remember that while for you it might be entertainment worthy of popcorn icons, there are many many others who aren't being helped as they could be.
Thanks for listening to "my" rant,
L2 |
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09/28/2007 08:02:48 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
How about the membership exercising some self-discpline and quit posting inflammatory, ego-bruising, irrelevant, or inane posts in the first place ... then we won't need any "censorship" by the SC members. |
I finally found a quote worth adding to my bio page. This is classic. Ever read BOFH? |
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09/28/2007 08:06:47 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by L2:
These forum dramas might be entertaining to some, but there is a cost to them.
...
So carry on with the Rant, but please try to remember that while for you it might be entertainment worthy of popcorn icons, there are many many others who aren't being helped as they could be.
Thanks for listening to "my" rant,
L2 |
I agree they are fun to read, but any impact on all the other thing that SC has volunteered to do is because SC folk have decided to spend the time on the drama instead. Can't say I feel a lot of guilt about your (collective 'your') choice. |
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09/28/2007 08:11:52 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
I agree they are fun to read, but any impact on all the other thing that SC has volunteered to do is because SC folk have decided to spend the time on the drama instead. Can't say I feel a lot of guilt about your (collective 'your') choice. |
Sorry Routerguy, but you've missed or misunderstood the point. It was not about complaining about the workload, which I embrace heartily. It's about all the other users on the site being hurt by forum drama, and while selfishly you (collective 'you') might be entertained, please try to think about the times YOU'VE (again, collective) waited for an answer on something, and why that might be. |
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09/28/2007 08:12:20 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by L2:
These forum dramas might be entertaining to some, but there is a cost to them... |
The simple solution is to lock the thread and go attend to the important business you mentioned. :)
Sorry - I'm being flippant. If I put my serious face on for a minute - in my humble and meaningless opinion, any gripe or rant about how the site is managed is fair game for discussion. I have no gripes with the SC and haven't been very active lately but it seems there have been some "bad calls" - enough to cause some stirring up of some folks. Let the discussions run their course and the SC should feel free to ignore threads like this or come up with a unified position and post it. Sounds like people are just looking for consistency more than anything. And that's what children need - consistency. :)
Anyway. Whatever. I am having a hard time distinguishing if things are going downhill around here or if it's the typical cycle of life on DPC. Same reality show, different season. I do know it aint as much fun as it used to be. Maybe just me. Growing up. :(
Have at it. |
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09/28/2007 08:14:05 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by L2:
If you are one of the 50 or so people (just today, right now) needing time and attention for your particular concern, it's because of this. If you are waiting for answers on DPL2, please be patient as we are now a couple of days behind our timeline because of this. Still waiting for Expert to be finished? Guess one of the reasons why. |
So because I requested some clarification on the 'nudity' rule in this thread I'm now the cause of distracting SC from their more important tasks?
I didn't realise I was such a burden to DPC. I must remember not to question the forum rules or how they are applied in future. Although, I'm sure you won't mind me digging up that thread again in a few months time when the nudity argument raises its head again. Which it will.
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09/28/2007 08:17:45 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by L2:
Originally posted by routerguy666:
I agree they are fun to read, but any impact on all the other thing that SC has volunteered to do is because SC folk have decided to spend the time on the drama instead. Can't say I feel a lot of guilt about your (collective 'your') choice. |
Sorry Routerguy, but you've missed or misunderstood the point. It was not about complaining about the workload, which I embrace heartily. It's about all the other users on the site being hurt by forum drama, and while selfishly you (collective 'you') might be entertained, please try to think about the times YOU'VE (again, collective) waited for an answer on something, and why that might be. |
No I understood your point. And I see that again you chose to spend time here in this thread rather than addressing those other issues. Again, why should anyone feel guilty about all that other work stacking up when you (general) are choosing to be here rather than there?
Does it take 10 SC to address a forum issue? Nope. Depending on which SC is involved, it probably takes 0 in most instances. Not a few weeks ago there was a thread in Rant where Artroflmao got called a nasty word (which he deserved!) and then he returned the favor and down the toilet it went.
But...
Not a bit of input from anyone with a delete button and the situation rectified itself all on its own.
Just saying, some people are far too quick to pull the trigger. To act indignant when those who lack any other recourse over the situation start publically ranting about it it pretty funny. |
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09/28/2007 08:40:13 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
No I understood your point. And I see that again you chose to spend time here in this thread rather than addressing those other issues. Again, why should anyone feel guilty about all that other work stacking up when you (general) are choosing to be here rather than there?
...Just saying, some people are far too quick to pull the trigger. To act indignant when those who lack any other recourse over the situation start publically ranting about it it pretty funny. |
I'm afraid I must disagree; you've clearly misunderstood my point. Why should anyone feel guilty? Perhaps we can just get down to brass tacks, in the hopes of providing some illumination.
If there is a forum rule, and you inadvertently or otherwise break it, and then you are politely reminded to follow it but for some reason just can't do so...it really doesn't matter why you disagree with the rule, or that you do disagree with the rule, or whether other people agree that you shouldn't need to follow the rule -- that flagrant disregard for forum rules affects more people than you might realize.
Why am I still here? I'm addressing your (you- Routerguy) concerns. It's part of what I agreed to do when I joined SC.
You (collective) feel things are unfair? Perhaps SC as a whole could indeed be more consistent. Perhaps also you could cut us some slack now and again and realize your concern is not the only one that needs to be addressed. Perhaps also, as a forum user, you could either follow the rules and if you make a mistake, just gracefully move on once reminded of it.
Again, it's not really about any individual user, it's about everyone. If a thread gets locked and you (collective) didn't agree, well, that might happen from time to time. As for SC, we all do the best we can with what we have to work with, while thinking of everyone and not just one person.
Now with regard to the personal accusation that I am indignant, I'd like to refute. I'm not indignant, just sad really. It's a terrible thing when just a few people directly affect so many others in such a negative way. |
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09/28/2007 08:40:53 PM · #44 |
I'd just like to point out that perhaps this thread should be in the members discussion group, instead of rants.
Rants implies that the topic is trivial and worthy of being ignored. |
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09/28/2007 08:44:42 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by L2:
Now with regard to the personal accusation that I am indignant, I'd like to refute. I'm not indignant, just sad really. It's a terrible thing when just a few people directly affect so many others in such a negative way. |
It's not you who are being indignant, nor is it you who is quick to censor any post and lock any thread at the drop of a hat.
Regarding the guilt bit, if it's not guilt than what feeling is it you are attempting to inspire by pointing out that members dragging out these threads is keeping SC from addressing other tasks which is in turn keeping other members from getting their issues resolved?
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09/28/2007 08:51:47 PM · #46 |
| I like to post my weak attempts at justification right before I lock a thread because then the flaming accusations of censorship get sent directly to my inbox and I don't have to go trolling the forums to see who's thrashing my good name. A definite time saver. |
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09/28/2007 09:03:52 PM · #47 |
The last site that I was on and had a debacle like this got into the whole right to free speech and entitlement to speak your mind.
The bottom line is this.
It is NOT a democracy, and especially considering that this is a site that has international participants, there really is little or no applicable, or enforceable law that covers anyone's right to dictate to the site owner what they can or cannot do.
It is in essence a dictatorship, wholly owned and governed by the perople who are decent enough to perform the thankless task of spending too much time and money maintaining the site for our enjoyment. And it is an incomprehensible PITA to anyone who has not done it before.......if you haven't been a site admin, moderator, whatever you want to call it, then you really have no clue. There's nothing like getting a call at 3:00A.M. from someone on the other side of the country, or world, wondering if someone's keeping an eye on another flame-fest that broke out. And when you pull the plug on it, the only thing the combatants can agree on is that you're violating their rights to piss on each other's leg.
What a great job, huh????
You want to make suggestions, great, and it's pretty damn generous of the owners to consider them, and in some cases, implement them.
But going off in self-righteous indignation because of the PERCEPTION of unfairness is only shooting yourself in the foot if you get anything out of the $25 a year. And we all get way more than that out of experience, education, enjoyment, and the friends we make while we're here.
So.....the bottom line is this.....SC IS the bottom line, and they're very reasonable about it. I don't mean to say that if you don't like it, hit the bricks, but bear in mind that at any time that you get to be too far out of line and disrupt the community by SC's perspective from their experience of this constant kind of envelope pushing, you may be shown the door.
I will say that that last debacle was during a period that I was an admin, and it was enough to sour me from ever being willing to do it again.
Granted, this is just one man's take on it, but it's pretty close to the way it is, I'd venture to guess, so just keep in mind that not only do they have the power, but they aren't getting paid to put up with a bunch of garbage disguised as self-righteous indignation.
And we *ALL* agreed to behave ourselves rationally when we signed up.....OK, so I fibbed a little.....8>)
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09/28/2007 09:05:32 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by mk:
I like to post my weak attempts at justification right before I lock a thread because then the flaming accusations of censorship get sent directly to my inbox and I don't have to go trolling the forums to see who's thrashing my good name. A definite time saver. |
ROTFLMSOAO!!!!
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09/28/2007 09:06:06 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
...Regarding the guilt bit, if it's not guilt than what feeling is it you are attempting to inspire by pointing out that members dragging out these threads is keeping SC from addressing other tasks which is in turn keeping other members from getting their issues resolved? |
My initial post merely presented a factual statement with some questions for individual users to ponder on their own.
As to what any particular user "felt" when they read my post, well, that is beyond my control and I just can't take personal responsibility for those things over which I've no influence. If the emotion is guilt, well, that's something else to ponder isn't it? If the emotion is amusement, that says something else. In the end, it doesn't really matter what I personally think or feel, my personal take on the situation is that I'm to manage my responsibilities and time in the most efficient and effective manner possible and that is indeed what I do try to do.
It just seems like as a site, we've wasted a lot of resources over the last few days on a just a few people -- when, if Forum Rules had been followed to begin with none of it would have come up. Or, if there were legitimate mistakes that were corrected gracefully we all could have happily moved on. Instead, we've seen a bunch of finger pointing at other users, and conspiracy accusations, and all manner of complaining.
It's really just as simple as this: Please follow the forum rules. If you make a mistake, simply correct it and move on. Calling out other users, calling out SC, all this negativity isn't serving any useful site purpose. |
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09/28/2007 10:29:17 PM · #50 |
| If forum behaviour drains resources from other areas, I seriously think you should have more volunteers monitoring the forums and doing nothing else. They're a big part of the site, and most members enjoy using them. And I think you'd have no shortage of volunteers for this job. Some with scruples even! |
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