PRICING - need your advice :) - DPChallenge Forums

09/03/2007 06:56:01 PM · #26

Originally posted by littlegett:

You need to find out who the graphic designer is, and ask how he/she would like the images. You can simple ask the client who they will be using.

gotcha, thanks!

Sunniee

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

09/03/2007 07:11:56 PM · #27

I dunno.... I think I would sell them the finished book rather than a dvd with the photos. That way they have to come back to you if they want anything else....

littlegett

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM

09/03/2007 07:16:33 PM · #28

Originally posted by ShannonLee:

Originally posted by littlegett:
You need to find out who the graphic designer is, and ask how he/she would like the images. You can simple ask the client who they will be using.

gotcha, thanks!

My pleasure (-;

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM II

09/03/2007 07:19:26 PM · #29

Originally posted by Sunniee:

I dunno.... I think I would sell them the finished book rather than a dvd with the photos. That way they have to come back to you if they want anything else....

thank you. at this point, i have already decided that i will be just selling them the files.

lynnesite

Canon EOS-1D X

09/03/2007 11:10:14 PM · #30

IMO, you need a "delivery memo", usage is being licensed whether it's personal or not, it oughta go in writing, you can make it sound friendly. Here's an example.

"High res files provided on CD to designer xxx on behalf of [customer] for the production of 2 photo books for personal use. License is not transferable to a third party beyond designer xxx. No other usage is granted without additional payment or written permission of the photographer. Credit of the photo in no less than 8pt type is required on, under, or along the side of the photo as follows (since it's a book, in the credits page, rather): (c)Shannon's photo biz.

"Price for this usage license is $1000. No license is granted unless full payment is received. Payment via paypal or check to _______ -address etc."

something simple like that. So they aren't out making mouse pads and coffee mugs.

ETA: my license lingo above is rather sterile--it can be stated much more personally!

Message edited by author 2007-09-03 23:16:50.

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D

09/04/2007 12:16:05 AM · #31

Originally posted by lynnesite:

thank you thank you! that will help me out tremendously!!! :)

wavelength

Nikon D300

09/04/2007 12:29:21 AM · #32

Shannon,

I don't think it's taking advantage of people to charge a fair price for your work.

Look at it this way, many photographers would charge $50 per 8x10, right? I know it sometimes feels like you're ripping people off at first, but when you take a look at just how much time you're putting into this stuff, and you break that down to an hourly wage, you take what you can when you can.

If these people are affluent as they seem, I don't think they would be offended at $50 per photo at all. I could be wrong. They probably have single pieces of art in their houses that cost more than what you're charging.

Then again, it's always good to make friends and make a little side money at the same time. ;)

NVPhoto

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

09/04/2007 10:10:33 AM · #33

If you were invited to the barn with the expectation that you were going to be taking photos for a book, you would have agreed on price ahead of time. I am going to assume you were invited to the horse barn and the photo books kind of just happened. Correct?

If thats the case, just talk to the people and work something out that is good for both. Just tell them that the normal rate for something like this is around $30/photo. Work down from there or if they agree, great. I wouldn't care about the copyright stuff, doesn't seem like an elderly couple is going to profit from your stuff.

My goal for this would be to make some money that I am happy with while maintaining a good relationship and keeping the people thinking they got a wonderful book for a good price. Keep in mind they run a large horse barn and I would bet many affluent people come through. They also probably have affluent friends who visit the house as well. Word of mouth is powerful. If you give them a deal and score 3 other gigs from their friends thats a nice days work.

This is a great chance to have the barn owners referring your name to a lot of people. I would stay away from charging a very high fee, ie $5000. Although they can easily afford it, they probably won't bite. They probably could have a number of photographers come and shoot for free. This is a beautiful, olympic horse barn, anyone who does equestrian photography would love the opportunity to go somewhere like that.

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

09/04/2007 10:25:19 AM · #34

yes, I meant 5,000 $ plus 1% of the sales of the book (if they're going to sell it, might also be they just want it as a give-away or self-promotion, but why would they want to make two books then?) - assuming you deliver high-end press-ready data. That would equal 100$ a photo, fair, considering a set of 3-5 excellent shots of breeding horses or cows will cost you here in Germany an equal to 400$;
the provision depends on the edition and the price of the book. let's just say they sell 1.000 books at 50$ (which is fair for the kind of book I would imagine) you'll get another 500$.

And don't include copyright, just sell exclusive rights - otherwise you couldn't use those shots for self-promo.

09/04/2007 10:36:48 AM · #35

Originally posted by eyewave:

they arent going to be selling the book

09/04/2007 10:37:23 AM · #36

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

ya. im definitely with you on this!

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/04/2007 10:50:35 AM · #37

Originally posted by Jmnuggy:

I'd tend to agree with what you said here. If there was an up-front expectation that you were shooting images for them to buy, then that's quite different than if they invited you in, loved the pictures and want to make/buy a couple of books of those pictures.

NVPhoto

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Nikon

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

09/04/2007 11:01:31 AM · #38

This has potential for a lot of future business. Horse people love their horses and everything associated with it. Make these people happy, give them a CD of images, tell them to print what they like when they like and hang them up everywhere. All you need is a few people to say, "I really like that, where did you get it?" and you are home free. Tell the owners that you would love to do any other photography work for them in the future and that you are willing to do work for anyone at the barn. Seems like this particular barn is a great place to get alot of affluent people looking for portraits of their horse or action shots of riders. Either way, your in and will be first choice for a photog from any of them.

Even if you sell these books for $50 I would say it was a successful gig.

I would probably be prepared with prices for a similar photo shoot. Communities like this, word travels fast. You definately want to be ready when someone calls asking for similar photos. The referalls is where I would start charging a higher price. The elderly couple who own the barn got you in, help them out so they talk you up.

Prof_Fate

09/04/2007 11:48:03 AM · #39

Hmmm...

How long did you spend shooting?

I shoot 6 to 8 hours at a wedding and supply an album...$2000 or so. A second copy is cheaper, so perhaps $1000 - depends on size and page count. Whether it's an asuka or leather craftsman is not important to me - the labor to shoot, edit and layout is the same, so the (slightly) less costly coffee table book will still sell for the same price (for the first 2 to 4 copies anyway).

If I am asked the cost /fee to "shoot and burn" i quote the price of the average album I sell - they want the disk to try and get off cheap and I can't make a living not selling the album too.

If they want the rights and files to something else with then that is prices completely differently - fotoquote I think is the site.

Yes, charging them $200 'cause I might get more busniess' or similar is tempting BUT they won't remember you (i bet them spend $200 a day on bedding or feed or stall mucking). Charge them $1500 and they'll remember, and respect you more and be more likely to refer you to others.

Remember when they show the books, which they will, it's "I made this book from some pictures a girl shot" - your name won't even be in the book. You make the book and suddenly it's "Look at this book Shannon made. She shot the images too"

doug61853

Nikon D80

09/05/2007 05:17:28 PM · #40

Originally posted by ShannonLee:

Andrew, thanks for you input, i see what you're saying. But, they arent buying the photos to promote their barn. They just want to make a couple of photo books ... one for themselves and one to give as a gift to their partner. Yes, these people are extremely wealthy but I don't think that is grounds to charge them EXTRA, ya know what I mean.

And, yes, I do trust these folks to not pilfer the images :)

Shannon, you may trust them, and that is great. But who is to say for sure they will be around in 10 years, or 5 years, or 6 months. One of their children or grandchildren or someone who takes over the farm can find your DVD and mass produce the photos and make millions. In the meantime you get nothing. I would have a simple contract drawn up that if any of the photos are produced for money, you receive 5% of the proceeds. Just make sure 10 or 15 years down the road you don't get burned.

09/13/2007 01:02:17 PM · #41

UPDATE: i ended up asking $500 and they paid me $750 :) not a bad deal :)! especially since this was just something that popped up as icing on the cake!

Message edited by author 2007-09-13 13:02:48.

Prof_Fate

09/13/2007 01:09:52 PM · #42

Originally posted by ShannonLee:

UPDATE: i ended up asking $500 and they paid me $750 :) not a bad deal :)! especially since this was just something that popped up as icing on the cake!

Congrats and glad your happy, but...No one pays more than they have to so that means they're worth $1000 or more. It's also a bit demeaning IMO - I overpay kids to cut the grass and wash my car, not professionals.

NVPhoto

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

09/13/2007 01:16:08 PM · #43

Nice work Shannon. I think you accomplished a lot with this. I think if you were hired from teh start, Prof Fate is right, they could have spent more. That not being the case you did great. Originally you went to shoot pictures, not sell anything to anyone. They really liked your work and you gave them a modest price. For them to counter offer and give you more money is perfect. It means they really loved the work. I would guarantee they tell their friends, I don't think they will forget your name either. You did what I think most people should focus on for their first few gigs, you exceeded expectations. Nice job.