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08/22/2007 06:25:08 AM · #101 |
"Personally the thoughts of scrambling over fences, running away from security guards, sleepovers in police cells, and trying to find a good lawyer don't really appeal to me."
THATS CAUSE YOU ARE ALMOST 40!!!!!! (joke)
Thanks for all the info guys. |
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08/22/2007 07:24:19 AM · #102 |
As someone who has had his fence "tagged," but no "artwork" done on it, I say, you will get what ya give. That is someone elses PROPERTY. Can I paint all over your nice camera? How about your car? Mine was done by "bangers," (so they think), and around here I see them in their "Cholowagons" all decked out and painted, how would they feel if I painted it with little pink happy flowers on them or something. They would be pissed.
So, I now have 2x4's with 16 penny nails sticking up out of them along my fence...and yes they are nice a rusty! Plus, I will put some buckshot in their asses (yes, I am one of those who will shoot you if you invade my property). |
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08/22/2007 07:35:05 AM · #103 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: "Personally the thoughts of scrambling over fences, running away from security guards, sleepovers in police cells, and trying to find a good lawyer don't really appeal to me."
THATS CAUSE YOU ARE ALMOST 40!!!!!! (joke) |
Why you...! You whippersnapper! I oughta... I oughta...
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08/22/2007 07:39:03 AM · #104 |
Originally posted by jhonan: Why you...! You whippersnapper! I oughta... I oughta... |
GET OFF MY LAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWNNNNN! hehehe |
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08/22/2007 09:05:49 AM · #105 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: Originally posted by jhonan: My personal take on all this is that I would just avoid anything that is likely to draw attention from the police.
The trouble is, if you're caught by a bored security guard... |
If thats the case, im walking right away from him, they have no legal right to hold you or force you to stay. In fact, there have been cases where security guards have been found guilty of wrongful imprisonment or kidnapping, or something wild like that, for not allowing someone to leave. |
This is one of those examples of a little bit of information being dangerous: if you have committed a crime, then typically you can be arrested by a security guard. The distinction between the police and normal peopleâs private powers of arrest is usually that only the police can arrest you before you commit a crime if they suspect that you are about to do so.
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08/22/2007 09:13:14 AM · #106 |
Originally posted by Matthew: Originally posted by ajdelaware: Originally posted by jhonan: My personal take on all this is that I would just avoid anything that is likely to draw attention from the police.
The trouble is, if you're caught by a bored security guard... |
If thats the case, im walking right away from him, they have no legal right to hold you or force you to stay. In fact, there have been cases where security guards have been found guilty of wrongful imprisonment or kidnapping, or something wild like that, for not allowing someone to leave. |
This is one of those examples of a little bit of information being dangerous: if you have committed a crime, then typically you can be arrested by a security guard. |
I believe thats only in the case of a felony. |
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08/22/2007 09:27:38 AM · #107 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: I believe thats only in the case of a felony. |
Whether something is a felony (indictable offence in the UK) or misdemeanor will depend on your local state law - criminal damage or vandalism offences can vary in severity and nature. In the UK, criminal damage is an indictable offence and capable of citizen's arrest (if not always advisably so).
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08/22/2007 09:33:32 AM · #108 |
Yeah but you guys also spell color with a u and refer to cigarettes as fags. So obviously your legal system is bananas. (JOKE!!!!) |
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08/22/2007 09:38:06 AM · #109 |
On another note, trespassing on a railyard in Delaware carriest a stiff fine...$10 and a maximum of 5 days in jail.
Vandalism in a railyard is a heftier fine of $50, plus damages.
Im sure they get you good on the damages, but otherwise, not that big of a deal haha. |
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08/22/2007 11:45:06 AM · #110 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: On another note, trespassing on a railyard in Delaware carriest a stiff fine...$10 and a maximum of 5 days in jail.
Vandalism in a railyard is a heftier fine of $50, plus damages.
Im sure they get you good on the damages, but otherwise, not that big of a deal haha. |
Just don't do it in Virginia. Class 4 felony with punishment up to 25 years |
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08/22/2007 12:44:38 PM · #111 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: On another note, trespassing on a railyard in Delaware carriest a stiff fine...$10 and a maximum of 5 days in jail.
Vandalism in a railyard is a heftier fine of $50, plus damages.
Im sure they get you good on the damages, but otherwise, not that big of a deal haha. |
haha indeed.
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08/22/2007 01:28:36 PM · #112 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: On another note, trespassing on a railyard in Delaware carriest a stiff fine...$10 and a maximum of 5 days in jail.
Vandalism in a railyard is a heftier fine of $50, plus damages.
Im sure they get you good on the damages, but otherwise, not that big of a deal haha. |
This whole deal with trespassing. You should read up on it. In most areas, you can't be convicted of trespassing unless the owners (or their agents such as security guards) tells you to leave and you don't.
For instance, in Santa Monica, Ca
"CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602(n) provides that a person who refuses or fails to leave land not open to the general public when requested to do so by the owner, owner's agent, or a peace officer at the request of the owner or owner's agent may be arrested."
So, you really can't be charged with trespassing if you entered an area and nobody's around to tell you off.
On the other hand, if you have to break a door down to get in somewhere and you're caught, you won't be charged with trespassing, you'll be charged with breaking and entering.
If you leave your front door open and someone comes into your house and takes something, they can't be charged with breaking and entering, just theft. |
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08/22/2007 02:13:23 PM · #113 |
Originally posted by Nullix: Originally posted by ajdelaware: On another note, trespassing on a railyard in Delaware carriest a stiff fine...$10 and a maximum of 5 days in jail.
Vandalism in a railyard is a heftier fine of $50, plus damages.
Im sure they get you good on the damages, but otherwise, not that big of a deal haha. |
This whole deal with trespassing. You should read up on it. In most areas, you can't be convicted of trespassing unless the owners (or their agents such as security guards) tells you to leave and you don't.
For instance, in Santa Monica, Ca
"CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602(n) provides that a person who refuses or fails to leave land not open to the general public when requested to do so by the owner, owner's agent, or a peace officer at the request of the owner or owner's agent may be arrested."
So, you really can't be charged with trespassing if you entered an area and nobody's around to tell you off.
On the other hand, if you have to break a door down to get in somewhere and you're caught, you won't be charged with trespassing, you'll be charged with breaking and entering.
If you leave your front door open and someone comes into your house and takes something, they can't be charged with breaking and entering, just theft. |
A posted "No Tresspassing" sign is usually considered such a request. It's not required to make the request person to person. |
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08/22/2007 02:15:48 PM · #114 |
I think it would have to do with how technical the officers wanted to be. If you're with them in the commission of a crime, then you're an accessory. I think after the fact, they wouldn't do much (from the photos, etc.) but if you were caught with them in the act, I would guess you'd be held as well.
And rightfully so, IMO. We're citizens first.
Originally posted by ajdelaware: If I was to go out and shoot graffiti writers as part of a series, and say we were to get arrested. Is there any crime for "documenting" illegal activities? I realize that my main problem here would probably be a trespassing charge. Also, what legal rights would my images have, as in could they be used against the graf writer?
***EDIT**********
I think my initial post is making it hard to get to the issue I was addressing.
The issue I was addressing was simply this:
Are documentary photographers who are doing a study of a topic that includes a crime being committed (whether it be a speeding, graffiti, jay walking, it doesn't matter) liable to the same legal ramifications that the person committing the crime is, or are they granted any sort of "immunity." My examples are things like: News programs watching a hacker break into a computer system, HBO filming "HOOKERS AT THE POINT" in which prostitutes solicit johns on camera and in some cases perform (audio only), documentaries on drug abuse where they will accompany the subject while he cops and subsequently uses drugs.
****/EDIT***** |
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08/22/2007 02:16:48 PM · #115 |
Originally posted by Nullix: This whole deal with trespassing. You should read up on it. In most areas, you can't be convicted of trespassing unless the owners (or their agents such as security guards) tells you to leave and you don't. |
not necessarily true. in most places, all a property owner has to do is mark the property with no trespassing signs.
you guys can spend all the time you want, looking for loopholes, justifications, and ways to try to get away with something. the bottom line is simple: respect other's property rights. trespassing--the act of going onto someone else's property without permission--is no different than 'borrowing' someone's photo without permission. i just love this cake-and-eat-it-too attitude towards laws and property rights... |
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08/22/2007 02:41:14 PM · #116 |
I started this thread simply as a discussion on law, and instead everyone wants to interject their personal beliefs into it. Your opinion of right and wrong has nothing to do with this thread.
Yes it would suck if someone vandalized my property, stole my stuff, whatever. Thats not what im asking though.
I dont think my edited original post could be any clearer, yet all i get is "you shouldnt do it cause its mean" from half of you.
This thread is pretty much dead at this point.
Its been established that PJ credentials can help you get a way with a little more then you could without them, you can't be tried for watching a crime occur and not alerting the authorities (at least in misdemeanors), and that a lawyer is the best person to consult in these matters if you have further inquiries.
Lock this one up SC, before someone else repeats that doing tihngs that are illegal is bad. |
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08/22/2007 03:18:16 PM · #117 |
Doing things illegal is bad, but only what I think is bad.
Shut up and shot (with cameras). |
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08/22/2007 04:32:54 PM · #118 |
I hate it when they try to lock me out when I'm about to post.
A local business got tired of repeated grafitti art, over and over. Near some railroad tracks a Lithographic printing business decided to hire the neighborhood Gafitti artist to do some artwork inside and outside.
If you did something like that, it would be interesting and could setup strobes at night.
I have seen an entire book at the store on graffiti in New York, done mostly on trains. The authors have shot the artwork and one artist, but not in the act of doing it.
It's less risky then photographing grizzley bears.
Message edited by author 2007-08-22 16:34:23. |
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08/22/2007 04:48:19 PM · #119 |
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08/22/2007 05:00:53 PM · #120 |
Sorry Phil, Ill only talk about copyrights and my favorite pictures and scores from now on. Sorry for the discussion! |
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08/22/2007 05:52:24 PM · #121 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: Sorry Phil, Ill only talk about copyrights and my favorite pictures and scores from now on. Sorry for the discussion! |
Okay, thanks!!! |
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08/22/2007 06:06:08 PM · #122 |
Originally posted by dudephil: I miss rainmotorsports. |
I don't, but his doppelganger is doing a mighty fine job of filling in. |
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08/22/2007 06:39:03 PM · #123 |
Originally posted by ajdelaware: Its been established that PJ credentials can help you get a way with a little more then you could without them, you can't be tried for watching a crime occur and not alerting the authorities (at least in misdemeanors), and that a lawyer is the best person to consult in these matters if you have further inquiries.
This thread is pretty much dead at this point. |
Speaking as a lawyer, if your plans resulted in a legal analysis this straightforward, I would have to charge less than a wedding photographer (and one charging at fotomann_forever's supported rates, at that).
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