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 08/09/2007 10:36:45 PM · #51
Art is a journey. You can go on that journey or not. You can flinch from it. You can run from it and be pulled into it. You can wistfully gaze at it through the bus window. You can laugh at it. You can steal the road signs and put them above your couch. You can pretend it isn't there. Those are all your choices, and those are choices you can make with a camera in your hand or a brush or a bottle of piss.

Sometimes, people on the journey want a little help from their friends. That's where critique comes in. Not because some people know what art is and other people don't, but because people who are daring that lonely journey called Art want to hear from some fellow travellers, get a perspective they may have missed. Ultimately, their journey is their own. There are just as many painters as there are photographers who have no idea what Art is and if they did, would have no interest in it. Selah. Canon Beach. Selah. A clown with a tear dripping from its eye. Selah. Someone's going to find the gunpowder in Canon Beach. Selah. Someone's going to find the salt in that clown's eye. Selah.
 08/09/2007 10:42:36 PM · #52
It's amazing that this is such a popular debate, considering I've yet to see someone say "Photography is not art!" (though I havn't read every post on every thread, not even every post on this thread).

But, from how it appears to me right now, we're all in agreement. So what are we debating? Or are we just all explaining our own personal reasons for considering photography an art?
 08/09/2007 11:00:00 PM · #53
Is paint art ?

photography can be art.

It can be record.

It's a weird question.

Is a pen art ? Is marble art ?

Why question the medium ?
 08/09/2007 11:21:26 PM · #54
My theory:
We shoot, they decide.
No problem. : )
edit; artsy smiley thing added.

Message edited by author 2007-08-09 23:22:29.
 08/09/2007 11:25:12 PM · #55
Originally posted by Gordon:

Why question the medium ?


Ah the crux of the buiscut!

Is painting a portrait more difficult than shooting a portrait? Or rather just a different skill set to express the same moment/feeling/self-fulfilling ideal.

Message edited by author 2007-08-09 23:25:43.
 08/09/2007 11:54:44 PM · #56
Originally posted by posthumous:
Selah. Canon Beach. Selah. A clown with a tear dripping from its eye. Selah. Someone's going to find the gunpowder in Canon Beach. Selah. Someone's going to find the salt in that clown's eye. Selah.


Ok, I'm confident enough in myself to admit I have no clue what "selah" means. :)
 08/10/2007 12:00:42 AM · #57
YES.
 08/10/2007 12:03:21 AM · #58
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Selah. Canon Beach. Selah. A clown with a tear dripping from its eye. Selah. Someone's going to find the gunpowder in Canon Beach. Selah. Someone's going to find the salt in that clown's eye. Selah.


Ok, I'm confident enough in myself to admit I have no clue what "selah" means. :)


Found in Hebrew scriptures, indicates a pause for reflection.

R.
 08/10/2007 01:26:43 AM · #59
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Selah. Canon Beach. Selah. A clown with a tear dripping from its eye. Selah. Someone's going to find the gunpowder in Canon Beach. Selah. Someone's going to find the salt in that clown's eye. Selah.


Ok, I'm confident enough in myself to admit I have no clue what "selah" means. :)


Found in Hebrew scriptures, indicates a pause for reflection.

R.

somewhat of a "stop and think" meaning word.
 08/10/2007 01:55:23 AM · #60
I am Art. Photography is Spartacus.

And also, the only post I agree with in this thread is Liberty's.
 08/10/2007 02:26:07 AM · #61
Originally posted by liberty:
/

?
 08/10/2007 02:33:21 AM · #62
Originally posted by focuspoint:
My definition of "ART"

Anything willingly goes through your mind or your eyes and comes out as a touchable-seeable object is an art.

By that definition, things such as poetry, music, singing, and dance are not forms of art. I think there are many people that would disagree.

You are trying to define limits for a thing that is inherently limitless. Art is an endlessly changing medium. People are constantly inventing new forms of art, while old forms evolve into new ones. Some fall out of favor and we forget them. How can we define limits for something that is in such a constant state of flux and growth? You may as well attempt to put fences around clouds.

08/10/2007 02:37:26 AM · #63
Why even ask anymore?

08/10/2007 02:59:43 AM · #64
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Why even ask anymore?


or, why ask golfers whether they think golf is sport?
 08/10/2007 03:21:24 AM · #65
To me, art has always been the result of the artist's passion for his work. It has to do with the end result and whether or not it met his definition of intent. To me, this car is art.



Yes, it originally came down an assembly line, albeit a small one, but I took this car apart down to the very last bolt, cleaned, painted, restored, replaced each and every piece of it lovingly so that the end result is effectively a hand built car, done with passion and pride in what is the crowning achievement of a lifelong career.

To me it will always be a work of art because of putting myself into it.

I feel the same way about the images I create, and that is what art will always mean to me.......it's putting your heart and soul into the art that you create.

So yes, to me photography is art.
 08/10/2007 03:32:57 AM · #66
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Is painting a portrait more difficult than shooting a portrait?


Yes, painting a portrait of a person is much much more difficult than taking his photo. And making a photo look very good in post processing is GENERALLY easier than painting someone.
And this is what I wished to tell you, that though post processing a photo may be art in its own sense, it is no where close to making a portait or realistic painting (which is usually much much more dofficult to do).

I do agree with you that photography and post processing are also art, but saying that they same as as painting is not okey in my thinking. Because I know by experience that it takes a determined effort to paint someone.

(further for making this clear, if you go and read my very first post in other thread, the last line was (something like), I understood what you wished to say (though I did not agree that it is same as painting).

(actually this is the whole reason I spend time with photography, because this I could manage to do, even if I am busy, but for me to find time to do painting is very difficult, because of time and effort it requires).
 08/10/2007 03:45:59 AM · #67
Originally posted by zxaar:
Yes, painting a portrait of a person is much much more difficult than taking his photo. And making a photo look very good in post processing is GENERALLY easier than painting someone.
And this is what I wished to tell you, that though post processing a photo may be art in its own sense, it is no where close to making a portait or realistic painting (which is usually much much more dofficult to do).

I do agree with you that photography and post processing are also art, but saying that they same as as painting is not okey in my thinking. Because I know by experience that it takes a determined effort to paint someone.

(further for making this clear, if you go and read my very first post in other thread, the last line was (something like), I understood what you wished to say (though I did not agree that it is same as painting).

(actually this is the whole reason I spend time with photography, because this I could manage to do, even if I am busy, but for me to find time to do painting is very difficult, because of time and effort it requires).

I don't necessarily think that degree of difficulty has anything whatsoever to do with it.

It's extraordinarily more difficult for me to create things in PhotoShop than what Joey Lawrence does as a matter of course as normal for him. Yet nobody would argue that he's not an incredibly talented artist in his work.

And most of what I do after too much time trying to create/fix something in PS ends up in the recycle bun as decidedly NOT art!

I know people for whom painting is easy because it's what they do, and it's a total labor of love for them.......no difficulty whatsoever and they'd probably laugh at the thought.

ETA: These threads are always a discussion of interpretation, IMO.

Someone mentioned that painting a room isn't art. What my wife and daughter did when they repainted my daughter's bedroom absolutely *IS* art! It's fabulous!

Also, IMNSHO, the woman who painted that Healey is an artist as well......what she can do with a spray gun full of car paint is absolutely awesome!

Message edited by author 2007-08-10 03:51:27.
 08/10/2007 03:52:39 AM · #68
For those of you still hung up on this question, please read this book: On Photography

It addresses the question far more eloquently than just about any other source.
 08/10/2007 03:53:33 AM · #69
Originally posted by crayon:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Selah. Canon Beach. Selah. A clown with a tear dripping from its eye. Selah. Someone's going to find the gunpowder in Canon Beach. Selah. Someone's going to find the salt in that clown's eye. Selah.


Ok, I'm confident enough in myself to admit I have no clue what "selah" means. :)


Found in Hebrew scriptures, indicates a pause for reflection.

R.

somewhat of a "stop and think" meaning word.


afaik the hebrew word selah means rock or something permanent
 08/10/2007 03:56:35 AM · #70
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
For those of you still hung up on this question, please read this book: On Photography

It addresses the question far more eloquently than just about any other source.

Okay......but what if you don't happen to think that Susan Sontag is necessarily the definitive expert on either art or photography?

I certainly don't.

Have you read "Regarding the Pain of Others."?

I have very little use for her take on life.

But then, I'm basically a happy, upbeat person.

Message edited by author 2007-08-10 03:59:53.
 08/10/2007 04:00:00 AM · #71
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
For those of you still hung up on this question, please read this book: On Photography

It addresses the question far more eloquently than just about any other source.

Okay......but what if you don't happen to think that Susan Sontag is necessarily the definitive expert on either art or photography? 8>)


Then you're free to continue wallowing in confusion.
 08/10/2007 06:23:20 AM · #72
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


...To me it will always be a work of art because of putting myself into it.


When I worked as a police officer, I put my heart and soul into my work, ensuring that I became part of the society I served and endeavouring to enhance the rapport I had with the community...

Was I an artist?

Ray
 08/10/2007 07:16:23 AM · #73
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
For those of you still hung up on this question, please read this book: On Photography

It addresses the question far more eloquently than just about any other source.

Okay......but what if you don't happen to think that Susan Sontag is necessarily the definitive expert on either art or photography?

I certainly don't.

Have you read "Regarding the Pain of Others."?

I have very little use for her take on life.

But then, I'm basically a happy, upbeat person.


You don't have to like her personally, or subscribe to her views on other subjects to recognize the value in her writings on photography.

I have very little use for those who are only open to the thoughts of those they agree with.
 08/10/2007 07:59:13 AM · #74
I have to definitely say yes, that photography is art. Is every photograph a work of art? No. The creative process of composing the shot, then editing it and then presenting it for just yourself or others to see is certainly an artistic endeavor. The end result can be seen as a thing, an image, but to me it is a form of art.
08/10/2007 08:45:07 AM · #75
Originally posted by RayEthier:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:


...To me it will always be a work of art because of putting myself into it.


When I worked as a police officer, I put my heart and soul into my work, ensuring that I became part of the society I served and endeavouring to enhance the rapport I had with the community...

Was I an artist?

Ray


Yes.
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