| Author | Thread |
|
|
08/01/2007 11:11:46 PM · #1 |
I have a 1997 Honda Accord and well, long story short, it needs new front brakes. I took it to the shop today and they told me that the front, right caliper was stuck and therefore continuously applying brake force to the rotor. This is true since I've noticed reduced gas mileage and performance. Anyway. The cost of replacing the rotors and pads is nothing to write home about and the caliper would have to be replaced as well. Now I have a couple questions:
1.) Why do I have to replace BOTH calipers? Why not just the bad one?
2.) The shop said something about pulling the wheel bearings out and pressing new ones in. Is there any way at all around this? It is a rather expensive repair to do.
They quoted a cost of $1500 to do this work for the front brakes alone. Any help would be appreciated.
|
|
|
|
08/01/2007 11:16:44 PM · #2 |
| I am not sure the caliper needs to be replaced, seems like a rebuild might work but I agree if you replace one best to replace both. Best to get a second opinion before you have the work done. |
|
|
|
08/01/2007 11:17:32 PM · #3 |
Don't know about 1.
As far as 2....
I had to change wheel bearing when it started making noise. If your does you MUST have it changed. Don't see any other reason to change it.
Nick
|
|
|
|
08/01/2007 11:19:07 PM · #4 |
1. because if one has failed, the other is likely not far from failure too. Do you want to do the repair again in a month?
|
|
|
|
08/01/2007 11:19:14 PM · #5 |
Originally posted by Nikolai1024:
Don't know about 1.
As far as 2....
I had to change wheel bearing when it started making noise. If your does you MUST have it changed. Don't see any other reason to change it.
Nick |
Doesn't make any noise... Only the brake issue from what I can see/hear.
|
|
|
|
08/01/2007 11:23:39 PM · #6 |
If the caliper is locked up, it needs to be replaced. They can't rebuild it on site. It can be replaced with a rebuilt unit, however. If you do one, you should do both.
The wheel bearing may be damaged from excessive heat. If the caliper was locked and you were driving it, that brake rotor got *hot* and stayed hot, so bearing damage is not out of the question.
$1500 sounds expensive, but Honda parts are never cheap. |
|
|
|
08/01/2007 11:31:41 PM · #7 |
Just to clarify, the caliper was not "locked", it was applying light pressure to the rotor at all times. Enough to generate heat and wear the pads and rotors, but not enough to lock it up by any means. The caliper still responds to open and close inputs, just doesn't open all the way like it should. And $1500 was mostly labor...not even the parts. The parts seemed reasonable to me. And you're right...Honda parts are never cheap. I really need to learn how to do this stuff myself.
Message edited by author 2007-08-01 23:33:40.
|
|
|
|
08/02/2007 12:18:24 AM · #8 |
1997 Accord DX? LX? EX? SE? ABS? 2.2L? 3.0L?
I looked up the times on doing the front brakes on all the above, and it's minimal, both calipers, 1.6 hours. Replacing the rotors is nothing when doing a caliper, as at that point, there are only 2 Phillips screws to remove in order to take the rotor off, sliding off over the wheel studs.
Regarding the wheel bearings, the shop may have been thinking this was the era of accords that the rotor is behind the hub, requiring hub removal, pressing bearings, etc to replace the rotors. A decent shop should have an on-car brake lathe to handle those Accords, as it's a 3 hour job to replace rotors on those.
When I replace a caliper, I do both. Period. I give no options to customers when it comes to brakes, as they are not knowledgeable enough to make decisions about what's best, and only make decisions based on cost. What is done to one side, is done to both, be it calipers or rotors. When I send a car out, I am sure the friction characteristics and clamping forces are gong to be equal. If a customer wants a cheap radiator, fine. Tow trucks are easily called. With brakes, sometimes you get but one chance to prevent loss of life.
Chances are, you have a caliper with a slide pin that is hanging up and not a hydraulic issue / piston binding. The pins are lubed with a synthetic grease at every brake service/job. They can be freed up and do this often. Re manufactured calipers, dealer-only pads with shims and Moly-Coat lube (never use the pads many calipers come equipped with - they're junk) and rotors, various brands.
$1,500 is WAY too much. I could do calipers, rotors, pads, master cylinder, rear brakes and complete flush for under that, at my standard shop labor rate of $90.00/hour.
Edit to add:
I just did a real estimate on a 97 Accord EX 4-Door to replace front calipers (includes replacing pads), front OEM pads and front rotors (Mountain brand, made in Japan), flush brakes with Dot4 fluid, and was just under $450.00
Message edited by author 2007-08-02 00:36:06.
|
|
|
|
08/02/2007 12:21:51 AM · #9 |
Besides brad, for 1500 we could do a Brembo brake kit, slotted and drilled rotors, Kevlar pads from green stuff and still be ripping him off!
Message edited by author 2007-08-02 00:25:54. |
|
|
|
08/02/2007 12:23:07 AM · #10 |
Nope!
No we involved. I don't modify cars, especially safety items.
|
|
|
|
08/02/2007 12:25:58 AM · #11 |
Kirbic if its not under warranty and over 7 or 8 years old (this one is 10 its a 97 probably built in 96). They Made that model between 94 and 97 i believe, the next model year was 98-2002. Chances are even a dealer ship with a vehicle that old will use aftermarket parts charge the same as dealer price. If its just a shop theyll probly go aftermarket anyways.
I work in a parts department :-) We have a joke, you can put fischer (federated auto to the rest of thew country) on that car we need it to make it out the door.
Message edited by author 2007-08-02 00:27:33. |
|
|
|
08/02/2007 12:28:29 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by Brad:
Nope!
No we involved. I don't modify cars, especially safety items. |
I have a car that modifying the brakes on it would count as adding a saftey item. Seeing as how when the clutch line blew i had no brakes. Can we say 3 master cylinders instead of one (single res single block 2 piston) for 2 jobs?
Message edited by author 2007-08-02 00:28:58. |
|
|
|
08/02/2007 07:47:35 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by Brad:
1997 Accord DX? LX? EX? SE? ABS? 2.2L? 3.0L?
Edit to add:
I just did a real estimate on a 97 Accord EX 4-Door to replace front calipers (includes replacing pads), front OEM pads and front rotors (Mountain brand, made in Japan), flush brakes with Dot4 fluid, and was just under $450.00 |
Thanks! It's a 1997 Accord 4-dr EX V6 (2.7L) with ABS and 4 wheel disc brakes. Do you by chance know what years they made the cars with the hubs in front of the rotors? That is what they were saying. They said the rotors would have to be replaced since the old one had heat spots on it and was turning blue or something like that.
|
|
|
|
08/02/2007 07:55:49 AM · #14 |
Based on Brad's reply, which I would hang my hat on, it looks like you need a second estimate.
It sounded very high to me but not knowing what parts cost would be, all bets were off.
FWIW, "locked caliper" doesn't imply that the wheel is locked, but simply that the caliper fails to release. I've had it happen to me on two different cars, and I know it's easy not to notice when it happens. My '89 Ford locked a right-front caliper on a highway trip, and it got so hot that I boiled brake fluid (pedal went to the floor when I first applied brakes). Now that was scary... luckily I was able to recover by pumping it. |
|
|
|
08/03/2007 06:39:01 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by SamDoe1:
Originally posted by Brad:
1997 Accord DX? LX? EX? SE? ABS? 2.2L? 3.0L?
Edit to add:
I just did a real estimate on a 97 Accord EX 4-Door to replace front calipers (includes replacing pads), front OEM pads and front rotors (Mountain brand, made in Japan), flush brakes with Dot4 fluid, and was just under $450.00 |
Thanks! It's a 1997 Accord 4-dr EX V6 (2.7L) with ABS and 4 wheel disc brakes. Do you by chance know what years they made the cars with the hubs in front of the rotors? That is what they were saying. They said the rotors would have to be replaced since the old one had heat spots on it and was turning blue or something like that. |
 <--- print screen from the Industry-Standard Estimator.
To remove the rotors on yours:
1) Remove wheel
2) Remove caliper (2 bolts)
3) Remove Phillips screws holding rotor to hub (2)
4) Slide rotor off over the wheel studs.
You NEED to have someone knowledgeable look at this car.
Also, when the wheels are put back on, make SURE they are HAND-TORQUED, in a criss-cross pattern.
(guys in a hurry that whack them down with air guns cause probably 75% of the warping problems rotors get)
Here are a couple shops that should be reputable and are sponsoring members on the network I'm a member of:
In Woodbury:
Auto Works
In Milwaukee:
Rob Weigman's Automotive
Let them know I referred you from our network (iATN)
Message edited by author 2007-08-03 18:48:30.
|
|
|
|
08/03/2007 06:44:49 PM · #16 |
Brad
Too bad I don't live in SoCal, I would give you all my car's maintenance jobs... :) |
|
|
|
08/03/2007 07:15:08 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by Alain:
Brad
Too bad I don't live in SoCal, I would give you all my car's maintenance jobs... :) |
Thanks, but to quote my shop's email auto-responder:
Thank you for contacting Petersen Automotive.
In order to provide the highest possible quality, we are currently not accepting any new customers, that is unless you are cute, female, and willing to have your picture taken once in a while by the old fool that owns the place. Thank you for your understanding.
|
|
|
|
08/03/2007 07:17:20 PM · #18 |
|
|
|
08/03/2007 07:35:30 PM · #19 |
Hubby is a Honda Tech...first...are you going to dealership or mom&pop? His shop does NOT do calipers in pairs, as the calipers usually go the life of the vehicle. They rarely get stuck, leak or have any problems unless a brake job was done before and a boot was torn or slide pins were not lubed correctly. This is usually done somewhere other than the dealership. (Just Brakes to name one...) Sounds like you have inboard mounted rotors. Wheel bearings should not be an issue with this as the axle and steering knuckles have to be removed. 4 bolts that hold bearing housing and can be pressed out without regard to bearings. There is extra labor w/this type of rotor setup. However, what reason are they wanting to replce rotors?? Are they warped or beyond spec? Spec is 19 MM, minimum wear. Most HONDA shops have oncar brake lathes, so removal of rotors is not necessary.
If it's not beyond specs, you would turn the rotors, replace both pads, bad caliper, brake flush and that's it.
If the drive rate is $100, it would roughly between $500-$600 without new rotors. If rotors need replacing due to warping or out of spec, it's an addition 2 hours pluss part, so add $200 plus the cost of rotors.
Send me a pm if you need more.
|
|
|
|
08/03/2007 07:54:14 PM · #20 |
I do agree that calipers, especially if the vehicle has had a brake flush every 2 years regardless of mileage, should have calipers last the life of the vehicle. If a caliper is replaced because the piston is stuck, they should be done in pairs. Same with the rotors - do one, do both. If there are hot spots on the rotors, simple machining will not remove them - they have to be ground first, and the more metal that is removed from a rotor, the sooner it will warp again as it cannot shed the heat, and in some cases, if the wheels have been improperly torqued in the past, the rotor can be removed, (in the case of floating, or outboard rotors) machined, re installed, and have as much warp after clamping it down as it had to begin with. The raised hat sections of the metals get tweaked over time and heating/cooling cycles, and every time they are unloaded taking the wheels off and then re-tightened, they distort.
Trust me, I did an analysis on numerous cars for a study that was done, and in one case, a rotor was attempted to be machined 6 times, on the best brake lathe made, with the best hubless adaptor made, and still distortion after re-mounting.
I've adopted a simple plan on brakes. If the rotors are in spec, and are not damaged or warped, the pads only get changed. If there is runout, hot spots, lips on the inner or outer edges, they get tossed, period. I have 0 comebacks or complaints on brake work.
|
|
|
|
08/03/2007 08:10:01 PM · #21 |
As a service advisor at a Ford dealership I will always recommend taking to the dealer. At least get a second opinion.
1500.00 is way over the limit.
|
|
|
|
08/03/2007 08:19:22 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by Brad:
<--- print screen from the Industry-Standard Estimator. |
And it's wrong!
The 1997 Accord EX V-6 has Inboard Rotors:
3 hour job to replace the rotors if needed, but as is the case on most of these, the rotors are fat, have a lot of room for machining before they are at discard thickness, and should be done on the car, leaving the hubs & bearings alone.
|
|
|
|
08/03/2007 08:39:10 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by Brad:
3 hour job to replace the rotors if needed, but as is the case on most of these, the rotors are fat, have a lot of room for machining before they are at discard thickness, and should be done on the car, leaving the hubs & bearings alone. |
But as you said, if there are heat spots and turning blue... The shop also said that there was 15mm of wear left which, according to bergiekat, is less than the minimum spec.
|
|
|
|
08/03/2007 09:15:18 PM · #24 |
If the info is correct, those rotors are long past due to be replaced.
Bearings don't have to be, unless noisy. Calipers, only if they are binding.
None of which can add up to $1,500 though. No way, no how.
Message edited by author 2007-08-03 21:15:57.
|
|
|
|
08/03/2007 09:17:48 PM · #25 |
Thanks, I'll take it to the shop you recommended tomorrow morning. I'll let you know what they have to say. Off to the bars now! (in another car of course). Oh and not driving home either.
Message edited by author 2007-08-03 21:18:02.
|
|
