Making it in the Fashion/Beauty Photo"Biz"

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8

05/06/2007 10:45:23 AM · #1

As owner of afashiomode, I receive many questions about fashion photography. What I wish to identify here are several points that come together as a composite to realize the final single image. Each element is as important as the next and if just one of those elements are too weak, the whole image will fall apart and fail to work.

What you are seeing when you look at an image I create, is not just my photo. There is a team of individuals providing their talent (which in general is of the highest calibre in the industry) and expertise to the final outcome. All of these individuals, from the Model, Hair and Make-Up artist, Fashion Stylist and Post Production Retouch (for skin generally..Never my lighting) are essential in getting the "Film Finished" so to speak. Being that I am based in Paris, considered one of the three major centers in the world for my metier, I can draw on this exceptional source of talent. These people gravitate to these centers, just as Hollywood attracts actors and actresses, film directors, and producers.

I have had this discussion with many very talented photographers who become frustrated with their work because they cannot produce the images they imagine for lack of the other talents needed to do so. They ask, "Ben, why do my images lack something that I can't quite define?" And I brutally have to answer.. "They smack of being Provincial..."

Anyone who has been in this God-forsaken business as long as I have can smell it the minute they see the image. Everything from So So model, bad and poorly done make-up, abysmal hair, no fashion styling at all or perhaps at best borrowed from a local clothing store and totally out-dated by my "Snobbishly Arrogant" standards and really badly overdone or incompetent retouching.

If anyone wishes to do what I do, it is really quite simple. Gain a vocabulary. Go out and look at or buy, Italian Vogue, French Vogue, Citizen K International, Numero, Surface, Issue One, Oyster, Soon, V... Not the mainstream crap. Absorb it, look, observe, look, observe. You must attain a base for even knowing HOW TO OBSERVE and what to look for. DO NOT YET STUDY THE TECHNIQUE!!! That will come later. Look at everything that is happening. Look at the hair, the make-up, the clothes, the model, the theme, the ambience. Keep doing this over and over and over until you learn how to be "Discerning". To become discerning you need the vocabulary.

Once you've done that and come to the realization that you might want to try this, you can choose a high end provincial market or "THE MARKET". I started with Toronto, stayed one year, moved to LA, NY, Milan and eventually Paris. You can get some pretty good talent in Chicago or LA as upper-echelon almost-there markets and get away with it. You can get the good models in Chicago when they come in to do the shows.

Never do a test without all of the "support team" I mentioned. Hair, Make-Up and Fashion-Accessory stylist and of course the Model. "IF YOU DON'T HAVE THIS TEAM YOU WILL BE WASTING YOUR PRECIOUS TIME."

You need to think about how you can get a relatively good serious working model and support team for your shoots and what to say to get them. A model agency will know immediately by the questions you ask if you are a novice or advanced shooter. Ask the wrong question and BYE BYE. You'll smack of...OH, just wanna meet models, forget it buddy! Never mess around with Model agencies, always be as forthright as you can with them. They can screw your career before it has started with just two or three phone calls.

I was asked what lenses I use...

Oh you want to know what lenses to use? Ah I don't give a S--T what I use as long as it gives me what I want to get.

pcody

Canon PowerShot G6

05/06/2007 11:04:24 AM · #2

Why do you say it's spam? He is offering sincere advice. He isn't saying go to my website and buy my product. He's new here, but it looks as if he's offered some tidbits of truth. Maybe if we don't witchhunt him off the site, he will offer even more information to someone who wants to do commercial work in the future. And if he doesn't, well, life is short and so is my memory.

05/06/2007 11:10:17 AM · #3

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Now where did that come from??? What in what was posted was "Spam"

"Me thinks he protesteth too much"

I would call that "Defamation of Character"

The Definition Being:

libelous, slanderous, calumnious, scandalmongering, malicious, vicious, backbiting, muckraking; abusive, disparaging, denigratory, insulting...

And Sir:

This is what "YOU" post as exemplifying what you represent as a photographer, your site:

//www.dpcprints.com/profile.php?&USER_ID=5885

Message edited by author 2007-05-06 11:15:48.

05/06/2007 11:39:03 AM · #4

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Message edited by author 2007-05-06 12:22:32.

Olympus 50mm f/2.0 Macro ED Zuiko Digital

05/06/2007 11:50:02 AM · #5

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Originally posted by benjikan:

And Sir:

This is what "YOU" post as exemplifying what you represent as a photographer, your site:

//www.dpcprints.com/profile.php?&USER_ID=5885

Thanks for the plug

Let us just say that you will be considered "Persona non Grata" as of this moment in time and in regards to all future modes of communication.

None the less, Best Wishes and Good Luck in your already "Stellar Career..."

Benjamin Kanarek

Message edited by author 2007-05-06 11:50:50.

Tlemetry

Olympus E-300 EVOLT

05/06/2007 11:52:50 AM · #6

I found it an interesting read.

I don't intend to get into fashion, but if I was, I would have found it even more interesting to see the perspective of someone 'in the know'.

Welcome to DPC!

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

05/06/2007 11:54:39 AM · #7

Originally posted by Tlemetry:

I found it an interesting read.

I don't intend to get into fashion, but if I was, I would have found it even more interesting to see the perspective of someone 'in the know'.

Welcome to DPC!

Thank you for the kind words...

Ben

Man_Called_Horse

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

05/06/2007 11:55:31 AM · #8

Originally posted by Tlemetry:

I found it an interesting read.

I don't intend to get into fashion, but if I was, I would have found it even more interesting to see the perspective of someone 'in the know'.

Welcome to DPC!

Yeah, ditto.

Good on ya.

Welcome.

digitalknight

05/06/2007 12:02:57 PM · #9

thank you for sharing - if you have a minute I'd love a little clarification -

You talk about the "team" - I've just enough experience to know that I need a good team - I can't do it all myself - including posing the model.

I'd love a little more description from you as to what makes a "good" hair/makeup person, what is the role of the fashion stylist, and maybe a little about what the work flow on a shoot is.

For instance, do you have the model come into a set that is already lit/set up, or does she sit there while the fashion stylist completes the look - or is there a person that "sits in" while you light and the stylist roughs in the look?

I appreciate your time and willingness to talk about this - sorry if my questions are too basic - but when you post to an amateur site... ;)

Edit to add - your portfolio is amazing - I wish I had the vocabulary to tell you why - "subtle power" is all I've got - I love how it makes me feel - how's that?

Message edited by author 2007-05-06 12:07:45.

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

05/06/2007 12:09:15 PM · #10

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Message edited by author 2007-05-06 17:05:50.

digitalknight

05/06/2007 12:14:20 PM · #11

Leroy, give it a rest - he's responding to comments left - sheesh dude -

Mattel Barbie Photo Designer Digital Camera

05/06/2007 01:47:04 PM · #12

Originally posted by digitalknight:

I don't know your name Mr.Knight, so for all intent and purpose I'll call you Mr.Knight..OK?

I really don't where to start...A stylist is the person that chooses the clothing, shoes and accessories. The stylist is briefed before the shoot by the photographer. This briefing is a think tank session that is intended to garner a "Theme" or "Story" that will be the thread running through the whole shoot. It is like writing a storyboard. Let's say we want to do a ten page fashion story with the theme being"My Day at the Laundromat" for example. The shoot will be about a girl who has a huge pile of clothes to wash and is spending the whole day in the place while people are coming in and out as she observes the procession. All "Good" fashion stories start with a theme, from simple to complex. Well these people i.e. models are dressed in specific "Brands" of clothing that should cover a range of designers or manufactures to give a reason for it being a "Fashion" story and not just a "Model Portfolio" Yach...Sorry. All fashion magazine expect at least a six page story with a theme. Now how are you going to choreograph all of this. You are going for a ten page story. Well it could be two double pages and six single pages or three double page spreads and four single pages. On the former example you will only have to shoot seven images that being three horizontal images and four vertical. That could be done in one day but two days would be preferable. Now you have to define each of the shots in the "Story" Perhaps the first opening page could just be a picture of the Laundromat empty and void of anything except the ugly fluorescent lights and the washers and dryers. That might be where the title would be. Lets call the story "Living in a Laundromat".

The next shot could be the star of the show who might be wearing a "Miss Sixty" pair of red jeans an "H&M" blouse a pair of "Adidas" shoes and a "Victor and Rolf" Bag...Remember all magazine reason for existing is to catalogue what the designers are coming out with two to three months in advance of the product hitting the stores, so the stylist will have access to all of the press offices representing the designers showrooms. So let's continue. The next image is the introduction of the first couple or individuals coming in to do their laundry. They are perhaps passing dirty clothing to the one that is depositing the socks in to the washing machine. Perhaps it is being throw and caught etc. The story continues with different amusing vignettes and perhaps ends with a close up of the girl, still alone in the Laundromat of a close up on her sad face looking through the glass door on to the world outside...

That "IS" a fashion story.

Now that you have decided on the story, you have to decide on the rest of the team. Remember that the Fashion Stylist was chosen because she/he was appropriate for this kind of challenge and in your estimation a think tank session with this person would result in an interesting treatment. Knowing the story you both will have to find a hair and make up artist or one that is very good at both which is rare.
You will doing your casting based on looking at books of Hair and Make-up people to see if their style conforms to your treatment (story). Now that you have found the support team it is time to cast for the appropriate subjects.

In the story you decided that you needed three people. The other two will look different in each image so you could get away with just three "Models-Actors" The casting is so important in re-enforcing the theme of the story. For me stranger is better, but that is a matter of taste based on your being "Plugged In" to what the looks are that are happening today.

You will have the stylist or yourself call the model agencies and brief them with the criteria of you theme and they will respond by sending you portfolios for the purpose of honing down the selection. Once selections are made you will call the agency to have them send the chosen finalists to come for a face to face casting. The casting should be attended by the whole team. The hair and make-up artists will comment on there observations as well as the stylist and yourself, all seeing the model from a different perspective.

Once the democratic decisions are made, you will have the final decision approval authority based on their input. The agency will be called to confirm the dates you gave them when they asked "What are the shoot dates. We will send you books of talent available on those dates..."

You will get either a first or second option and hopefully a first. If you are certain of the selection confirm immediately. That will guarantee their availability.

Set the time and place of the shoot and give the agencies all of the telephone contact info and visa versa for the whole team...

That is how to put together a shoot. Although a condensed version. You must also think about the flow of the story. Two full shots two close up details one beauty shot etc etc etc...

The Beginning...
Ben

Message edited by author 2007-05-06 20:09:45.

digitalknight

05/06/2007 02:36:10 PM · #13

Ben,

That is my kind of spam! :-) (sorry)

What a great look inside your world - I've started storyboarding my shoots, but more on a frame by frame approach - the story approach makes more sense and sounds much more fun. Thank you for taking the time to explain!

I've worked a lot in the video world - and when we get down to final selections for a production, we have the actors come in and read lines with each other on camera - to try to get a feel for the chemistry - and the camera records it differently than we actually see it so we use both impressions to make our decisions.

So when the models come in for the face-to-face, is it an interview where the team asks questions - is it a shoot? Do you care if the model/actors have chemistry between them?

I'm guessing at this level the models ability to perform in front of the camera isn't a question - or is it? Do you involve the camera and shoot during this interview.

And as to the concept for the shoot - does a magazine contact you and say "we're thinking of a laundromat" and you run with it? Or do they say "we're thinking adidas" and you go from there? Is there someone representing "the client (magazine or whatever) on the shoot with you, or do you have complete creative license?

Have I completely overstepped my bounds in the numbers of questions department?

Thanks again - this is very helpful to a very motivated photographer.

Doug

option

Nikon D200

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

05/06/2007 03:14:28 PM · #14

Oh shit, benjikan is here? There goes my K10D high score...

Kidding, kidding. Welcome Ben, great to have some more Pentaxians at DPC!

05/06/2007 04:09:31 PM · #15

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Message edited by author 2007-05-06 17:05:28.

Man_Called_Horse

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

05/06/2007 04:23:23 PM · #16

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

For anyone that wants to know THIS is why I called this post SPAM.

//www.ephotozine.com/topic/t-47971

This post is a canned post. But ya'll have fun. Consider me "Persona non Grata"

I am on other photo sites besides DPC.

I regularly copy and paste onto their forums just to test the waters sort to say.

Just because copy and pasting is easy to do should not be called SPAM.

This is not an email service. The forums are here to learn.

I'm sorry to say Leroy, but your out of line this time.

Canon RF 24-70mm f/2.8 L IS

05/06/2007 04:28:27 PM · #17

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Message edited by author 2007-05-06 17:08:59.

kirbic

Canon EOS R5

05/06/2007 04:58:38 PM · #18

Let's keep it civil, please. Leroy, your last post, accusing the OP of a personal attack, was in itself a direct attack. Let it drop.

sher

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

05/06/2007 06:55:20 PM · #19

wonderful tips and pointers, Benjamin, and thanks for all your great advice! welcome to DPC! i browsed your site and your work is outstanding. the Guardian Angel series is stunning!

Skip

Canon EOS-1D X

Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM

05/06/2007 07:20:13 PM · #20

i clicked in just becuz i saw sher's name, and boy am i glad i did. excellent tips, killer website. welcome aboard!

Cutter

Nikon D700

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

05/06/2007 07:28:17 PM · #21

Where do I get me some of those blonde eyelashes! hahaaa.

No but seriously, great work.

edit to add: If you want a suggestion...the thing about your website I wish was improved upon was everytime you see a full size image and then click on it to go back to the thumbnails, it always goes back to the first set. I wish it would go back to the page you clicked to get the full size, that way if you are halfway thru your portfolio, you don't have to start all over again. Do you see what I mean?

Message edited by author 2007-05-06 19:31:47.

Tlemetry

Olympus E-300 EVOLT

Olympus 50mm f/2.0 Macro ED Zuiko Digital

05/06/2007 07:42:53 PM · #22

I took my daughter to the mall yesterday and instead of looking at the clothes on the racks, I was inspecting the images around me. After reading this thread I have new respect for those putting all that time and effort into the image that we see but overlook as we hustle and bustle about. We sure take them for granted.
Love the post, keep em coming!

rinac

Pentax K20D

Pentax SMC-F 50mm f/1.7

05/06/2007 08:00:20 PM · #23

Wonderful insight to the industry, whether you're aiming for a career in it or not. Excellent read, thanks and welcome :)